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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi fellow Beast owners!!!

My first post here; sorry that's problem.
Bought myself my first '00 M5 in May; beatiful car, only 54.000 km. It is in excellent condition, LeMansBlue, combined Blue/Black leather interior +++ but without NAV (but I find my way around hiha anyway).

But after 2 weeks the car started to behave strange on cold engine. After a checkup at the local dealer; they found an error in the Exhaustgas Temp Sensor. BMW AG claims is should be removed as the part has been discontinued and there was an instruction for reprogramming of computer. This was done.

But the problem still persists, and the same errorcode now is in the comp again (error 79) (OBDII code P1490). Also a new error has occured. During a long drive 2 days ago, during a passing of another car, speed approx 130 km, 4.gear at 5500 rpm, the car "jumped" and went into emergency mode with max rpm at 3000. I had to stop and turn of the ignition. When I started it again, all was ok.
On the return, during a new passing (I just like to do that, understand why???) 4. gear, approx 5000 rpm, same **** happends again! Have to stop the car, turn of the ignition and everything is ok. I just freaked out! Also, imagine doing 140 km/h at 5-6000 rpm, and the engine suddently stops "working", understand how the car behaves physically. It "jumps".

Also, when this happend; I could for a split second notice that the DSC indicator flashing once on the dashboard just as the error occured.

After returning to my hometown, I went straight to the local dealer and had them read the computer, but no errors was registered this day (only the last error still remaining, that occured 2 days before, but after the last service).
They dont know what this is; how to fix it; or how to search for the error!

Understand my terrible situation, considering the car was bought only 6 weeks ago, and it's July, summertime and vacation in Norway... :(

Anyone have any tips, experienced any similar error with solution or, or, or ???
Hopefully there is a Beast-owner out there that can be my hero !

Praying a silent prayer that "you" exist out there...

Regards,
AFX

EDIT: After reading about MAF problems, I wonder... Hmmm...
Temp outside when this occured was about 10-12 degrees, showers witht dry roads. Typically northern norway weather ... grmf... I also have scanned the docs from BMW AG and the doc from the tester (text from tester is in Swedish) and can email it (PDF format).
 

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AFX said:
Hi fellow Beast owners!!!

My first post here; sorry that's problem.
Bought myself my first '00 M5 in May; beatiful car, only 54.000 km. It is in excellent condition, LeMansBlue, combined Blue/Black leather interior +++ but without NAV (but I find my way around hiha anyway).

But after 2 weeks the car started to behave strange on cold engine. After a checkup at the local dealer; they found an error in the Exhaustgas Temp Sensor. BMW AG claims is should be removed as the part has been discontinued and there was an instruction for reprogramming of computer. This was done.

But the problem still persists, and the same errorcode now is in the comp again (error 79) (OBDII code P1490). Also a new error has occured. During a long drive 2 days ago, during a passing of another car, speed approx 130 km, 4.gear at 5500 rpm, the car "jumped" and went into emergency mode with max rpm at 3000. I had to stop and turn of the ignition. When I started it again, all was ok.
On the return, during a new passing (I just like to do that, understand why???) 4. gear, approx 5000 rpm, same **** happends again! Have to stop the car, turn of the ignition and everything is ok. I just freaked out! Also, imagine doing 140 km/h at 5-6000 rpm, and the engine suddently stops "working", understand how the car behaves physically. It "jumps".

Also, when this happend; I could for a split second notice that the DSC indicator flashing once on the dashboard just as the error occured.

After returning to my hometown, I went straight to the local dealer and had them read the computer, but no errors was registered this day (only the last error still remaining, that occured 2 days before, but after the last service).
They dont know what this is; how to fix it; or how to search for the error!

Understand my terrible situation, considering the car was bought only 6 weeks ago, and it's July, summertime and vacation in Norway... :(

Anyone have any tips, experienced any similar error with solution or, or, or ???
Hopefully there is a Beast-owner out there that can be my hero !

Praying a silent prayer that "you" exist out there...

Regards,
AFX

EDIT: After reading about MAF problems, I wonder... Hmmm...
Temp outside when this occured was about 10-12 degrees, showers witht dry roads. Typically northern norway weather ... grmf... I also have scanned the docs from BMW AG and the doc from the tester (text from tester is in Swedish) and can email it (PDF format).
You may have two issues at this time..... both relatively minor. First removing the EGT probe from the system was a proper suggestion however before it can be removed it must be first seen as active in the system by the GT1 and then disabled and then removed..... if these steps are not taken it will continue to throw the code.

Secondly, I would suspect that you have a MAF acting up....... you maybe able to clean it/them however my long term succes has been ....... less than stellar... one idea would be to see if the dealer has a pair of used one to try....

I would not get to excited, you have a great car with simply a minor issue that will soon be resolved.

Take care

Shadowman
 

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I second Shadoman on the MAF thing.

I spent loads of time reading on here about MAFs when I had trouble. Then went to BMW dealer, and then somewhere else. Spent lots of money on diagnostics and sensors, each time they told me it wouldn't be the MAFs, and did other stuff. Just before I was going to buy CATs on their suggestion. [email protected] was a dimond geezer, cleaned my MAFs, showed me how to clean em for my self and all in the world was bliss again :thumbsup: .

The moral of the story is trust your instincts and read up on MAF cleaning and testing on here. It would be a shame to spend $$$ on everything else before you get to the most common cause of power related issues, when you can investigate yourself for free.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@shadowman

Wow; great tips... I'll do the cleaning in the afternoon at a friends car eletronic workshop :haha: I will post results here for sure!

But back to the problem about the temp sensor; BMW has discontinued the part; and the one I had was defective. Any suggestions on this one???

Excited AFX :hihi:
 

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In addition to Shadowmans and Stumbos excellent advice, I´d like to add fuel pressure.

Am I understanding you correct that the car always enter limp-home when you accelerate WOT (wide open throttle) above 5000 RPM?

I think this is either (in order of likelyhood): MAF, fuel pump, fuel filter, crankshaft sensor misalignment, camshaft sensors, ignition coil, spark plug.

1. Perform the DIY MAF test (fuel-flow test)

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54788

2. Check fuel pressure:

Look at post 27 in the above thread, as well as

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54371

and

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54692

3. Check crankshaft sensor alignment.


David
 

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"Car jumped and went into limp mode"...I had this problem, it was electronic throtle body 2...

Also your problem could be MAFS as well...at 54km I assume you MAFS havent been changed before, my MAFS went bad as well approx at same millage...

Shadowman :byee55amg ...my PM pls...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
DavidS said:
In addition to Shadowmans and Stumbos excellent advice, I´d like to add fuel pressure.

Am I understanding you correct that the car always enter limp-home when you accelerate WOT (wide open throttle) above 5000 RPM?

I think this is either (in order of likelyhood): MAF, fuel pump, fuel filter, crankshaft sensor misalignment, camshaft sensors, ignition coil, spark plug.

1. Perform the DIY MAF test (fuel-flow test)

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54788

2. Check fuel pressure:

Look at post 27 in the above thread, as well as

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54371

and

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54692

3. Check crankshaft sensor alignment.


David
Hi David,

Nope, happends just rarely; only twice (limb-mode) past week.
But the DSC indicator blinks often, always when I have acceleration, but not necessary WOT, but I can't imagine I'm about to loose traction everytime it blinks though.

But we will clean the MAF's tonight.

As an input; last owner (only 1 owner before me) was a 55 year old gentleman, and the shop where I bought it from stated that he probably never had passed 150 km/h or high RPM's.
So if a M-type Beast has only been driven "slowly" and never been blown clean, it's possible that this could make the MAF's conteminated (?).

Doing the fuel flow test at a friday up here will most likely end up in lost drivers license :hihi: so that I will do after the weekend. The local hero's are to much active in weekends with laser.

Btw; I'll looking at the Blinder Laser Jammer; any experience with this model anyone ???

I'll keep you posted on the progress.
Thanx a lot for all the input's; every tips will be followd up until the car is perfect!!!

:haha2: AFX
 

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AFX said:
Hi David,

Nope, happends just rarely; only twice (limb-mode) past week.
But the DSC indicator blinks often, always when I have acceleration, but not necessary WOT, but I can't imagine I'm about to loose traction everytime it blinks though.

But we will clean the MAF's tonight.

As an input; last owner (only 1 owner before me) was a 55 year old gentleman, and the shop where I bought it from stated that he probably never had passed 150 km/h or high RPM's.
So if a M-type Beast has only been driven "slowly" and never been blown clean, it's possible that this could make the MAF's conteminated (?).

Doing the fuel flow test at a friday up here will most likely end up in lost drivers license
AFX
About the DSC: it could be a problem with one of the ABS sensors. Was the car driven at winter? Lots of salt on the roads? That is very hard on the not-enough-weathersealed ABS sensors used by BMW. Look very carefully at the spot where the cables enter the ABS wheel sensors. You can also ask the dealer to check the output of those sensors with an oscilloscope.

If the DSC looses signal from one or more wheel sensors it can do stupid things. This is the reason you have to remove two fuses to disable the DSC completely whe dyno-testing an M5.

About DIY MAF testing: Keep your license. You could just as well perform the MAF test in 2nd gear. Then you can got to rev limit and still be almost legal on a Norwegan road.

Do the testing before and after you clean the MAFs. If you get an improvement in the fuel-flow, then clean again, and measure. If you get still better values you can be certain the problem is MAF related.

Previous owner: Actually I´ve never before heard of an M5 that has not been driven at high RPMs. (Maybe it was just salesman´s BS...) I think these engines need to be driven really hot once in a while to get rid of soot contamination on the valves and valve-seats.

Maybe you should buy a bottle of STP Complete System Cleaner and pour it into the fuel-tank?

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
DavidS said:
About the DSC: it could be a problem with one of the ABS sensors. Was the car driven at winter? Lots of salt on the roads? That is very hard on the not-enough-weathersealed ABS sensors used by BMW. Look very carefully at the spot where the cables enter the ABS wheel sensors. You can also ask the dealer to check the output of those sensors with an oscilloscope.

If the DSC looses signal from one or more wheel sensors it can do stupid things. This is the reason you have to remove two fuses to disable the DSC completely whe dyno-testing an M5.

About DIY MAF testing: Keep your license. You could just as well perform the MAF test in 2nd gear. Then you can got to rev limit and still be almost legal on a Norwegan road.

Do the testing before and after you clean the MAFs. If you get an improvement in the fuel-flow, then clean again, and measure. If you get still better values you can be certain the problem is MAF related.

Previous owner: Actually I´ve never before heard of an M5 that has not been driven at high RPMs. (Maybe it was just salesman´s BS...) I think these engines need to be driven really hot once in a while to get rid of soot contamination on the valves and valve-seats.

Maybe you should buy a bottle of STP Complete System Cleaner and pour it into the fuel-tank?

David
Nope, not driven at winter time. Previous owner had a 325i cab (!) for winter driving, now exchanged the M5 with the new M6... Ohhh...
Actually, a friend of mine in Oslo actually "knows" the previous owner, and he had no problem accepting that statement fram the salesguy (he's also a friend of the salesman in the BMW shop).

Testing of fuel-part... Today it's impossible; friday, FINALLY 22 degrees, blue sky, upcoming weekend and holiday season... terrible traffic!!! But I'll try.

You think that cleaner stuff actually helps ??? :)

/AFX
 

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Did you buy the car from a BMW dealer? What are the warranty terms?

DSC: What tyres and what condition are those?

STP cleaner: There are posts on this board from people who got much better engine performance, and there are posts from people who saw no improvement. I think if there is a contamination problem in the injectors, it will help a lot. If there is no contamination problem, then there is nothing to clean away, so STP won´t help.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
DavidS said:
Did you buy the car from a BMW dealer? What are the warranty terms?

DSC: What tyres and what condition are those?

STP cleaner: There are posts on this board from people who got much better engine performance, and there are posts from people who saw no improvement. I think if there is a contamination problem in the injectors, it will help a lot. If there is no contamination problem, then there is nothing to clean away, so STP won´t help.

David
You wont believe this !!!
When we dismounted the MAF housing, on one side, the oil was dripping out of the air-house (close to engine)!!! The airfilter was also 40% covered with oil...
Ahhh... So NOW I understand why it fails on high load; not enough air...! And this the local dealer did not see, even when they had Inspection I last week (I know airfilter is up for checking on Insp. II).
So, tomorrow, hopefully on a saturday, I will find airfilter downtown...

But what I dont understad is how it comes this much oil into the air-intakes, and also on only one side...?

Any comments???

BMW dealer was just in the middle, and gave me no warranty.
Tires in very good condition (until now anyway :flag: ...)

/AFX
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
stumbo said:
I've never used them, but could this be the oil residue left behind after using K&N air filters that I here so much about ?
Nope, using original filters only... Will investigate how so much oil came out to one filter, but not the other. Some oil is normal they say, but it should not drip...!
 

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Get a lawer ASAP and Don´t touch the evidence!

Ouch, that sounds nasty.

First of all, whoever told you oil on the air intake filter is normal flat out lied to you. Never ever trust that person, or anything he has told you before. Do analyze that person´s motives.

There should not be a single drop of oil on the suction side of the air filters. Not one drop. The side of the air-filter facing the engine should be absolutely pristine even when the filter is ready for replacment.

The crankshaft-case ventilation is done by two rubber hooses going to two cyclonic oil separtors, which in turn lead the condensed oil back to the sump.
The oil separators are located just below the front of the plenum chamber (big air-box on top of the engine). The purpose of the separators is to get tiny oil aerosol drops removed from the air-stream going into the engine.

Where the separators connect to the plenum, you will see tiny amounts of oil residue inside the plenum. We are not talking drops, we are talking tiny amounts.

Check and see if those hoses are in good shape. I think if there was a major air leak on the hoose from the crankshaft-case (or if it is completely blocked) perhaps oil could be sucked in reverse from the sump and flood the separators and then go on into the plenum and from there pour into the air ducts.

It could also be that the oil has been severly overfilled at some point so that fluid oil has been sucked through the crankshaft-case ventilation, flooded the oil separators, flooded the plenum chamber and run down the air-duct.

I have no idea what this could have done to the engine.

Anyway, this could be as simple as finding out where the oil came from, clean it up, seal whatever is leaking, replace the MAF, airfilter etc and the car runs fine, but this could also be really bad.

I have no idea how Norwegan consumer law works, and in particular how it works when a car dealer sells a car on commision. Often time is of the essence in legal matters. Ask a lawer what to do ASAP. Meanwhile do absolutely nothing to the car. Don´t ruin the evidence. You may need it.
Don´t touch anything on the car until instructed so by your lawer, but take a lot of photographs of the stuff already open.

I feel truly sorry for you having to experience this trouble. Keep your cool and be firm.

David
 

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AFX said:
...After returning to my hometown, I went straight to the local dealer and had them read the computer, but no errors was registered this day (only the last error still remaining, that occured 2 days before, but after the last service).
They dont know what this is; how to fix it; or how to search for the error!...
As I've stated a million times in the past, the dealer doesn't know Jack when it comes to electronics. Maybe if you could ask them to do a "full test" GT1 scan. They probably did a "short test". Then tell them to give you the GT1 reports. There should be fault messages, but the end result is, "Internal fault in the... the fault is not currently present. The problem cannot be duplicated. No repairs needed at this time."
 

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a_ok2me,

You are absolutely right! This is the ultimate proof the BMW MAF testing procedure is totally worthless. Imagine how badly restricted the filter must be, and how badly contaminated the MAF on that side must be, and still no error found.

And on top of that, the nerve to claim oil is normal on the filters in the air intake system. Disgusting.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I'm crying...

Well guys, now my vacation may be ruined... To much cost to fix up the car, and have sold my old 525iX. I'm gonna take a lot of picture all right before I remove the filter (even make them available for you).

We did clean the MAF's and cleaned the airhose. Did open eveything up again last night to check, and there was just "moist" of oil but this could of course come from the filter during suction (driving). I did disconnect the airhose from the block and used a flashlight to examine inside (did not remove the top M-Power lid). Inside it was completely dry as I could see.

Today I will drive to our sommerhouse for my two son's pleasure, since I dont want to ruin their summertime with me. I cant be standing under the hood of the car all the time, while they are bored here in the city. Pity...

Since I bought the car through my company the consumer rights are different, but I assume the BMW importer would not not like to receive all this information. There are so few M-series in Norway (only 25 E39 M5's) that if I threat to go to the media with this... Well...

I will buy new airfilters when I'm back later next week, dismantle all airhoses and clean them, re-clean the MAF's, check the hoses according to David's suggestion, and run the car for awhile. Then re-check everything. If there is new oil in the system, I will most certainly contact a lawyer together with contacting the importer in Norway.
Then we will see...

But for now, I will drive this car like an "old" man; no high accelerations, no high RPM'n... Like driving an old Toyota...

Have a nice weekend everybody... I will try to enjoy mine...

/AFX
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
A little question...

If the previous owner actually never drove the car above 150 km/h, and never did drive it with really high RPM's (he's 55 years old), what could this do to the engine? I'm not thinking of damage, but "old man's driving", exhaust system is not "clean", etc... It's common knowledge that sometimes the BMW's need to be driven a bit hard to blow the engine and surrounding systems clean.
We have a common word for this in Norway, but dont have a clue on how to translate it, but I think you know what I mean.

So when I bought this car, and start to drive it a bit hard, could then provoke errors since maybe other things are not ok after the "old man driver" ? You understand my question?

I have faith in the BMW dealer who have taken all services for the old man (not same company that sold me the car), and for David and other Swedish people, this is Stenshagen in Oslo, maybe you heard about the dealer (biggest in Norway). I have a friend working there, and he has promised me to address my problems on monday cause then the most experienced M technician is back from vacation. He was talking about even send him by plane to me to look over that car. Maybe there is an angel out there ;)

Well, now I go for the summerhouse, but the laptop will follow, and will be online over EDGE (I love the new GSM technology).

/AFX
 

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AFX,

I think you are right about S62 engines benefitting from being run nice and warm and revved now and then.

I think you need new air filters to start with. The oil-soiled filter will give off oil forever, and make proper oil-leak-checking impossible. You might just as well change the pair of them.

I think you absolutely have to find where the oil came from, and what caused it. You should also go over the whole car very carefully, just to be on the safe side. Take a look at the sparkplugs, and do a compression test for good measure.

I understand from your post that you removed the big air-hoses going from the MAFs to the plenum chamber, and that the plenum chamber looked clean. Is this correct?

You cleaned the big air hooses, and only one of those had oil in it. Correct?

Evidence matters aside, to find out about the source of the oil, remove the lid from the plenum and look at the ports to the oil separators. If one of those look oily, and the other not, I´d guess at the crankshaft case ventilation (as described in a previous post).

Get a lawer onboard and let him send a letter to the seller. At least negotiate the price down a bit. Make the seller give you a loaner car to use on the vacation.

David
 
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