BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'll spare you all the details. My 03 M5 (~20K miles) has been at the dealer for 56 days (yes fifty six) since May of this year for numerous little problems. One of which was a slight oil leak that took two weeks to get the part (just an oil line), and at the same time the MAFs were replaced for a low RPM stutter complaint.

After the oil line and the MAFs were replaced, my car started making this whining sound that drones in my ear. Much worse than my 4 year old son sound at the toy store ;) The sound changes pitch with engine RPM, most noticeable between 2000-2500 revs when the car is cruising or coasting down. It sounds like it is coming from the front driver's side of the engine. The sound is much more audible from the driver's seat than the front passenger seat. Dealer has replaced the alternator to no avail. If anything it sounds louder/drones harder in my ear after the alternator replacement. There are a couple little issues I learn to live with in this car, but I absolutely cannot have this car with this noise.

Of course at first they tried to tell me it's a normal sound. They claimed the BMW rep drove my car and said it's a normal sound. Finally I took a ride out with the shop foreman (I think he is) and he heard the sound. Both him and my SA think it sounds like a bearing. I was highly hopeful that the alternator would do the trick - I searched the forum and some member(s) had the same noise fixed by replacing the alternator.

Can you guys give me some pointers as to what they need to look at? Chasis ears were not very effective in finding this sound, which by the way can only be duplicated when the car is in motion, with the car in gear or in neutral - reving the motor standing still I cannot hear it. Could it be anything in the transmission?

On a side note, my car has got to be one of the most gently driven M5's around - my long term MPG was 18.6MPG per the computer (until everything was reset). I got it back up to 20.8MPG so far. Anyway, with ~20k gently driven miles, should my rears tires be all worn in the middle and inner edge? I know the car has very aggressive rear toe-in, but so did the 540's I had and the rear tires on the 540s looked practically new after 20k miles. I just noticed yesterday both my rear tires are worn in the middle and inner edge with chunks missing on the inner tread. The outer edge is like new.

I could have sworn my rear tires had plenty of meat left not too long ago. Think someone had smokey burnout fun with my car?

Sorry for another long-winded post. I am desperate at this point. If this noise is not eliminated this time it is likely this car will be gone. Thanks for any input.

One last thing. I know the computer records any over-rev conditions. Do you know if that gets recorded with a date/time stamp? Asking for obvious reason - should BMW claim any damage is caused by over-revving. I know it wasn't me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
You mentioned something about a bearing. Is it possible it's a wheel bearing? If it doesn't happen at rest it's got to be something in the rolling gear... wheels, transmission, something of that nature.

Are you in an area with multiple dealers? What you describe sounds like kind of questionable service from the dealership. Doesn't seem like the work you describe adds up to anything close to 56 days.

Good luck
Ben
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,047 Posts
bwstein said:
You mentioned something about a bearing. Is it possible it's a wheel bearing? If it doesn't happen at rest it's got to be something in the rolling gear... wheels, transmission, something of that nature.

Are you in an area with multiple dealers? What you describe sounds like kind of questionable service from the dealership. Doesn't seem like the work you describe adds up to anything close to 56 days.

Good luck
Ben
Member MannyM5 works at a NJ dealership somewhere on Rt. 22 IIRC. Don't know where you are located, but you might try PM'ing him and see if his dealership can give you a second opinion. In the past, he was very active and helped out a few members.
Regards,
Jerry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,393 Posts
Comment on the alignment specs- the car does NOT have to have aggressive rear toe. All too often a dealership checks the alignment and if in spec- but still with considerable toe- they don't adjust.

Toe spec is 0.00 to 0.17"... and the total toe for both rears is 0.00 - 0.33".

Have them set it to 0.2 on each and be done with wear.

Check the front specs to- why suffer with tire wear, especially when you aren't tracking..

Some specs here:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=574486&postcount=8

A
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,462 Posts
if this noise started after the oil line was replaced, i'd venture a guess that the oil line is resting on part of the body/chassis and is causing some resonation thru the body. Have they looked carefully at the work they did? (perish the thought, they fix one issue and cause another)
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts
I just noticed yesterday both my rear tires are worn in the middle and inner edge with chunks missing on the inner tread. The outer edge is like new.
I could have sworn my rear tires had plenty of meat left not too long ago. Think someone had smokey burnout fun with my car?
Look for signs of rubber chunks in the wheel wells; particularly caught in the spring. When chunks come off, they are hot and sticky....

Good luck in the whine search
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,817 Posts
ard said:
Comment on the alignment specs- the car does NOT have to have aggressive rear toe. All too often a dealership checks the alignment and if in spec- but still with considerable toe- they don't adjust.

Toe spec is 0.00 to 0.17"... and the total toe for both rears is 0.00 - 0.33".

Have them set it to 0.2 on each and be done with wear.

Check the front specs to- why suffer with tire wear, especially when you aren't tracking..

Some specs here:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=574486&postcount=8

A
ard - Don't you mean camber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,594 Posts
andye39s said:
One last thing. I know the computer records any over-rev conditions. Do you know if that gets recorded with a date/time stamp? Asking for obvious reason - should BMW claim any damage is caused by over-revving. I know it wasn't me.
Assuming it is similar to the E46 M3, no. What is recorded there (for the E46 M3) is the max rpm and total time spent above 7800rpm (with an 8000rpm redline...go figure). Here's a link to a post Jim Conforti did showing the E46 M3 ECU source code for this part (back in the days when M3 motors were blowing up and BMW hadn't owned up to it yet):http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e46m3/2412688-10.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Twells: Could a transmission whine/noise appear to come from the driver's side front?

Bwstein: It hit me for a second when you mentioned wheel bearing, but that'd be a no go since the sound varies with engine RPM.

Boplaw: I actually have already consulted with a lawyer. I don't want to give up on the car yet. I will give it one more shot - it's going back in on Friday.

Gsfent: JMK is within distance for me. But I like the (all) BMW loaners at my current dealer. I know I know, should rather have my car fixed by someone more capable, but I'd rather not drive a Ford Contour (or whatever) for the stay. Besides, should I pursue lemon law/breach of warranty, I may have a stronger case staying with one dealer.

Ard: Thanks for the info. I'll have my SA check.

Mottati: Surprisingly the dealer actually did check for possible resonance caused by the oil line touching. No go, though who knows how carefully they looked. Good call though.

JJC1843: I just went to look at the car in the garage for "evidence". Nothing there. So either they destroyed the evidence after they had fun, or this car did eat up my rear tires. Thanks for the suggestion.

Elevens: I wouldn't know, camber or toe-in ouich Always thought what I "tried" to describe is toe-in.

CSBM5: I guess/hope my car was not taken on a joy ride. I found no rubber around the wheel well or spring, as JJC suggested. And, come to think of it, my MPG read 15.5MPG when I got the car back. There's no way the fuel consumption would read that high after a fresh reset and a joy ride followed.

BTW, I had Revhigh's CAI installed in my 01 540i6. The MAF was reinstalled backwards after the CAI install. It triggered check engine light and caused a very similar sound that I'm getting now. This is why I mentioned that I thought it may be an intake noise a while back. But the MAFs appears to have been installed correctly in my M5 (arrows pointing into the plenum).. Could a bad MAF make a noise? Hmm I'm going to swap them around now and see what happens.

I'm trying to convince myself not to give up on this car. I love the car, I am THE e39 fan - my 03 M5 is my *fourth* e39. Thanks for all the suggestions. The car is going back on Friday, probably my last try.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,099 Posts
I had a bothersome whining noise in my '02 M5. It started after the inspection I. It didn't occur when cold but would show up once warm between 2000-2500 RPMs. Sometimes it would be louder than others. The noise was definitely RPM related and would go away immediately if I depressed the clutch. Three visits to two dealers never fixed it but it never caused a problem. One tech could hear it but didn't think it was abnormal for an M5. Amazingly, I think its gone now after the Inspection II or at least hardly noticeable. I wonder if it is related to the air filters or some sort of induction noise if not put back together right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,393 Posts
ELEVENS said:
ard - Don't you mean camber.
I meant toe.

Toe will scrub the tires- combined with camber it will kill the inner or out edges.

Camber will put more 'road force' on the inside or outside edge, so you'll get preferrential wear, but if it is too toed, the tire is moving at an angle to the road- THAT will remove rubber pretty quick.

(Ard's theory on tire wear...)

Of course if you are looking to eek (is that a word?) out the last shreads of handling, you may choose alignment specs that are different than those that you want for a cruising/commuter car.

Adam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,558 Posts
Yes, eek is a word.. but EKE is the right way to spell it .. :hihi: Sorry to dig, but I was compelled...

That said you do have a lot of info which is invaluable.. so please, no offense :cheers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,817 Posts
ard said:
I meant toe...

Andye39s mentioned "...worn in the middle and inner edge with chunks missing on the inner tread. The outer edge is like new..."

That makes me think excessive negative camber. Why use toe-in out back anyway? I thought toe-in was for the front, adding straight-line stability.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,393 Posts
ELEVENS said:
Andye39s mentioned "...worn in the middle and inner edge with chunks missing on the inner tread. The outer edge is like new..."

That makes me think excessive negative camber. Why use toe-in out back anyway? I thought toe-in was for the front, adding straight-line stability.
I should have qualified my statement.

I agree that excess neg will bear more on the inner edge, BUT combine that with toe and it will happen in 7k miles!

BMWs spec is 0.00- 0.17"... set it to 0.1 or 0.2 and tire wear drops dramatically. My point is the dealer will look at a toe of 0.15" and say "alignment OK"...
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top