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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just got back from a 2 day event at Road America with the Nordstern PCA club—my first time with them.

Okay, now tell me honestly, is what happened to me there typical of track stuff that just happens or am I living in another, strange universe or something? hiha



Like I said, I had never run with this group before and showed up for the Sunday early registration optimistically. I left the husband and son at the hotel and hauled up both helmets for inspection and stood in line. It came my turn and they give the run group assignments—they go from 1, which is Novice up to 4, which is Advanced. Hubby gets 3 and they give me a 1 sticker—man I got hot!!!!! The first thing I asked them is “Why?” I tell them I actually have more track time, run similar times and run in higher groups. They reply they never got my track history. I then show them a record of the emails and phone messages I had left for the various individuals over the past few months. I tell them that if I run in 1, I’m going to catch the tail. They tell me to line up first the nest day and do just that. I told them I would. They also said they would take care of any reassignments then.

The next day I show for check in and they give me a #3 run group sticker right off, but thye wonder if that’s going to be a problem because there are two of us in one family in the same session. I say, "No worries, I have my own car” HA HA

Then at the driver’s meeting, the event chair call’s my name and tells me to see him afterwards. He then hands me a #4 run group sticker and asks if I want it—I told him sure!! HAHAHAHA I’ve got a naive streak a mile wide, but also a cynical one about as wide. So I’m wondering if they are just playing with me. My naive streak always seems to win so I take it as a sincere offer.

My husband was there too and he asked if he wanted a 4 also—he declined. This is how my husband and I have very different track experiences even though we are at the same track—this has happened before and because we run very close in time, he will now end up being one of the fastest in his run group and me, one of the slowest.




Now how I got in trouble with “Pretty Boy”—Hey that’s what another club member calls him—I never even met him or saw him the whole weekend.

Now Pretty Boy’s got a GT3 Cup car. I have to say first, I’ve run events with open passing rules (anywhere without a signal) and been passed without proper signals and that like , so not too much surprises me. BUT, this guy is just plain f-ed up—seriously. He tried to pass me without me signally, on my right as I was making a right hand turn!! He was doing all kinds of crazy passes out there. I was able to jerk the car to right to avoid running into him. Scared the piss out of me. I was cussing and waiving him a blue streak. We both got black flagged for running too close to each other. This club’s passing rules were only on certain straights, never in turns, with a turn signal, the driver being passed moving to the right with a turn signal, then a left turn signal turned on when the pass was complete. And we ran with the windows up. This is the most unusual set of passing runs I have ever run under!!

I explained to the track worker what happened, he apologized to me for me being flagged and let me go. I parked and they went to find the event chair to let him know what happened. About this time the husband and son had to drive back to Madison my son’s baseball game—hubby’s asst coach (insert bad mother guilt feelings here ‘cause I didn’t go too).

So after talking to the event chair I go stomping off the find the driver of the car. Off I go past the other cars looking carefully. It’s then I realize there must be at least 10 GT3's there and not only are the haulers there to bring cars, some of the driver's have actually have brought crews along also to take care of their cars. Is this what you all see at the events in your area of the country????

Never did find the driver—found his car(s) and hauler. And was told later he was going to talk to me, but he never did that day or the next. And I did look for him some more.

He came up behind me again in the last (5th) session of the day and I gave him a finger—NO NO not that finger. My index, telling him I see him and hold on I’ll give him the pass after I get out of the turn!!! I held my place then let him go.

Then I found out he had been kicked out the Minnesota BMW club for unsafe practices. Seriously, this guy does not know how to judge how much room he needs to put his car into an opening safely—so watch out for #90 GT3 P Cup car—for real!!

The event chair later asked how I liked run group 4. I told him, “Just fine!” HA HA HA I then asked him I did okay. He told me he didn’t hear anything bad other then the “incident.”

(Thanks to Pat (yes, this is your Pat tannad—if you are reading this) for the excellent dinner invitation and the chance to talk totally about car stuff. I’ll post a (crappy-sorry)pic of your car.)

OK so have you all had similar things like this happen to you? How did you handle them? Man I’m exhausted when I done with one of these events both mentally and physically, ‘cause I feel like I really have to be “perfect” out there.....especially when I open my big mouth and ask to run with the “big boys” HA HA ON ME!!

THANKS SO MUCH FOR LISTENING!!!!

Anita hiha
 

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It sounds like you ran into a bad apple...I'd really hate to think that any of my fellow members of the Man fraternity would treat a great driver of any chromosome arrangement that badly. The real likelihood is that you are a better driver and even perhaps more manly than he. Just me talking, keep racing and run to the checkered-flag! I love racing with those that know and appreciate the rules, I'm racing in Tulsa this weekend in my beloved shifter karts - easy to get hurt in those things, they'd put the whip to a GT3 on most courses. Should the lack of seatbelts and airbags put me off? Probably, but I trust the guys and gals I run with and I'd be very upset if I played any dirty pool on the track.


:byee55amg
 

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Re: Need Advice/Sympathy/Lastest Track Event -10 GT3’s,“Pretty Boy”and I Got Blackflagged

Anita, it's always an adventure with you.... :) I am glad as well that you were unscathed. And yes, I did think it was THAT finger... lol. But only because that's what *I* might have done! :D
 

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Re: Need Advice/Sympathy/Lastest Track Event -10 GT3’s,“Pretty Boy”and I Got Blackflagged

Anita, Anita.... :nono: Never a dull moment! SO you jumped from a rookie to a pro overnight? kinggf ...that's progress! Thanks for the fun read, sorry I can't answer your questions about what's usual and customary. But I have a few questions for you - what car did you run, the M-Coupe? And what turn did Pretty Boy pass you on?

:flag:
 

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Anita: here is a small piece of advice that has always worked for me: avoid any sort of track day session where passing requires signalling. Life is too short for that kind of track time.

I recently drove in a well-organized vintage meet where "signalling" wasn't required, of course, but if you spun or went off track for any reason, you were done for the weekend. I can't say this rule eliminated all dumb *ss driving, but it sure helped.

Steve
00 M5
99 996
76 930
64 356C race
64 356C street
 

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TurboCarrera said:
if you spun or went off track for any reason, you were done for the weekend.
Sounds kinda harsh to me!

Anita - yes, dumba$$'s with $$ & tracks seem to go hand-in-hand. You'd see them out here in CA, and I would imagine anywhere else you may go. But I definitely wouldn't call dive-bombers the 'norm', in most any track club HPDE-type event. And though I've never run with PCA out here I've heard they're a pretty conservative bunch.
 

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Hi Anita,

Sorry you ran into El-jerko. I had a good weekend running at Autobahn South course except for the overheating (stuck thermostat) issue. I ran with HPDE3 on Saturday then was promoted to HPDE4/TT on Sunday. NASA has open passing in HPDE4 everywhere on the track, but for the most part people play nice and I didn't have any problems with getting a point by (I was going anyway). I spent an entire session playing tag with a new Mustang GT, and the last session of the day I absolutely wasted a C5 Vette, he tried like hell to catch me to no avail. I just signed up for a two day at Gingerman next weekend, again with NASA. I am also going to show up on Friday night for their test and tune session.

Regards
 

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Hoenstly I've run time trials with EMRA before and if someone tried that there i honestly think they would get punched.
 

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I can only comment about PCA HPDE's based on my experience as an intermediate driver at Carolinas Motorsport Park. Passing had to be signaled and only at 4 places around the track. Every driver in my group from old 914's to a brand new GT3 was courteous and respectful of the rules. BTW, I could hang with an '04 Corvette but not the GT3. He had way more acceleration down the straights than my M5.

Attached is the GT3 and a GTA cup car. The GTA cup P-car ran in the instructor group and blew everyone away. He had 10-15 seconds a lap on a Z-06 in traffic!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Stoner said:
It sounds like you ran into a bad apple...I'd really hate to think that any of my fellow members of the Man fraternity would treat a great driver of any chromosome arrangement that badly. The real likelihood is that you are a better driver and even perhaps more manly than he. Just me talking, keep racing and run to the checkered-flag! I love racing with those that know and appreciate the rules, I'm racing in Tulsa this weekend in my beloved shifter karts - easy to get hurt in those things, they'd put the whip to a GT3 on most courses. Should the lack of seatbelts and airbags put me off? Probably, but I trust the guys and gals I run with and I'd be very upset if I played any dirty pool on the track.


:byee55amg
Thanks! Run group placement is typically only based on your run times at the particular track--not your equipment, etc. This is the third PCA club I've run with--Chicago and Milwaukee are the other two. Each club has it's own flavor and pecularities. As I know I'm a guest at any of these events, I always thank the event chair after my first event for having me. It's funny, the Chi folks are very gentlemenly. They are sort of sweet even. I'll never forget the first time I ran in the advanced group with them. They were concerned I would be OK!! HA HA on them. At the end of the session, the event chair, who was flagging waved the checkered at me and bowed. He later said he was concerned the that the other drivers might be holding me up!! Of course this was before the big dogs showed up at later events. I can't hang with them at all. But at least I try to make it challenging/interesting for them by giving them passes in differcult parts of the track and the like.

The Milwaukee group was cool also. The chair actually asked me my opinions on the event and seemed to seriously consider what I told him. These guys had the fastest drivers/cars (even those kit P formula looking cars) of all, but everybody in my group ran very clean. The event chair was very hands on, even calling a special drivers meeting when there were some passing issues in another run group and balling everyone out.

This last group's leaders seemed much less hands on and invloved. The big wigs actually seemed to have left before the event ended. Of course they had a long trip home, but still. But these guys had the most serious equipment/haulers/crews I'd ever seen. It's sometimes tough your first time with a club trying to figure out the formal/informal "rules." I guess the lack of communication from them even when I was trying to register and ask questions should have been a clue. The best thing about my weekend was getting to see what kind of underwear a GT3 owner would wear. I had 2 pitted to my left and three to my right. They guy to my right wore a driver's suit and would strip off after his session. Boy, I've never seen such fancy boxers :7: :7: :7: :7:

Hey stoner, continued success out there with your cart too. Sounds like you've been doing very well!! And have a nice group to run with on top of that!

Anita
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
doug said:
Anita, it's always an adventure with you.... :) I am glad as well that you were unscathed. And yes, I did think it was THAT finger... lol. But only because that's what *I* might have done! :D
Thanks Doug!! I'm not sure what I was going to do if I found him in person either. Here I am peeking into everyones work areas and trailers looking for a driver I didn't even know looked like. When I found his car, the only person around was someone passed out on the back seat of the truck, with the door wide open.

I never did see him on the track the second day, although all his stuff was still there. I was still going to talk to him even then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ELEVENS said:
Anita, Anita.... :nono: Never a dull moment! SO you jumped from a rookie to a pro overnight? kinggf ...that's progress! Thanks for the fun read, sorry I can't answer your questions about what's usual and customary. But I have a few questions for you - what car did you run, the M-Coupe? And what turn did Pretty Boy pass you on?

:flag:
Yes Bill, I'm now a pro!! A pro poser that is!! :D Good a convincing the big cheeses I know what I'm doing!!

I was in my M Coupe and it was in turn 1. This was my first RA event with my new 3:73 diff and my first time on Toyos (which were greasey as all get out). So here I am trying to focus on all that and use my turn signals--what a hoot. I have to say that the passing rules they used have to be about the worst I've ever used. Then suddenly my shifter wouldn't go into gear very well (actually a TSB issue). Of course it gave me a fit coming into turn 5. So I'm sitting there trying to get it into some gear before I reach the bottom of the hill. Oh, and I got some rotor cracks--last session fortunately. But I had fun!!!

BTW and I've been really slack in telling you this, your M5 looks just wonderful in the pics you posted the other week. So glad your finally made it through your ordeal!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
TurboCarrera said:
Anita: here is a small piece of advice that has always worked for me: avoid any sort of track day session where passing requires signalling. Life is too short for that kind of track time.

I recently drove in a well-organized vintage meet where "signalling" wasn't required, of course, but if you spun or went off track for any reason, you were done for the weekend. I can't say this rule eliminated all dumb *ss driving, but it sure helped.

Steve
00 M5
99 996
76 930
64 356C race
64 356C street
I really enjoy running in events where signally and the unnatural movement of the passee or passer are not required too. The few times I've been able to run in those situations made me appreciate it greatly. To me, everything out there becomes much more fluid.

I was pretty appalled though that no one in my run group that I saw, and they did release us one immediately after another, followed the blend line into the first turn. I was the only one. Especially after that recent tragic Porsche incident in CA. The Chicago group was compulsive about doing so when I ran with them at Blackhawk recently. You did it even if you were just beginning your session and you were the first one out!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Murph said:
Sounds kinda harsh to me!

Anita - yes, dumba$$'s with $$ & tracks seem to go hand-in-hand. You'd see them out here in CA, and I would imagine anywhere else you may go. But I definitely wouldn't call dive-bombers the 'norm', in most any track club HPDE-type event. And though I've never run with PCA out here I've heard they're a pretty conservative bunch.
Yes, I agree. I think each PCA club I've run with has got it's own flavor too. It was really sort of funny listening to all the Chicago PCA jokes made by this Minnesota PCA group, at the driver's meeting no less. I could tell you all the gossip. PCA Chi doesn't like the Milwaukee group and so on..it's a hoot! One Chi member claims the Mil guys drug him to some WI bar and made him drink and then made fun of his club or something like that:1: :1: :1:

Although I really like running with my buds at certain events, I think it's good to run with different clubs too. I would like to think clubs like having new recruits to play with too. :7: I think it keeps the clubs from getting to inbred too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
jhowton said:
Hi Anita,

Sorry you ran into El-jerko. I had a good weekend running at Autobahn South course except for the overheating (stuck thermostat) issue. I ran with HPDE3 on Saturday then was promoted to HPDE4/TT on Sunday. NASA has open passing in HPDE4 everywhere on the track, but for the most part people play nice and I didn't have any problems with getting a point by (I was going anyway). I spent an entire session playing tag with a new Mustang GT, and the last session of the day I absolutely wasted a C5 Vette, he tried like hell to catch me to no avail. I just signed up for a two day at Gingerman next weekend, again with NASA. I am also going to show up on Friday night for their test and tune session.

Regards
Jamie,
So glad you had an excellent weekend, aside from the thermostat issue of course!!! Congratulations on your promotion to HPDE4--WAY TO GO!! You can now run the timed events too, right? Glad you did your part in keeping those Mustangs and Vette's in line! :thumbsup:

Now where are some of those excellent photos you like to take? Were you able to take some? What did you think of the other track?

Good luck and enjoy next weekend! I'll be at Blackhawk next Fri with PCA Chi. You're going to be at Blackhawk Aug 12 right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
DrewT said:
Hoenstly I've run time trials with EMRA before and if someone tried that there i honestly think they would get punched.
I was ready to give him a real good tongue lashing that's for sure. The worst is the time and energy I had to put into getting the flagging situation straightened out. When I went up to the event chair, he ask me if I had missed a shift or something. I told him that that was not at all the case, that the other driver tried to come under me just after I had passed the apex of the turn and get under me there!!! There's no room there! He then said that he shouldn't be passing on the right--Duh!!! Fortunately, this happened right at the end of a session or I would have really been mad at missing my track time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Richard in NC said:
I can only comment about PCA HPDE's based on my experience as an intermediate driver at Carolinas Motorsport Park. Passing had to be signaled and only at 4 places around the track. Every driver in my group from old 914's to a brand new GT3 was courteous and respectful of the rules. BTW, I could hang with an '04 Corvette but not the GT3. He had way more acceleration down the straights than my M5.

Attached is the GT3 and a GTA cup car. The GTA cup P-car ran in the instructor group and blew everyone away. He had 10-15 seconds a lap on a Z-06 in traffic!
Richard,
Thanks for the feedback! I think when I run with this club again, I'll know much more what to expect and how formal I need to be following the rules, etc.
I know I'll never catch up to most of the P cars in my run group, but I learn so much watching the experienced drivers do their thing.
Thanks for the attached pictures!
Anita
 

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Anita
It could happen to anyone, but why does it always seem to happen to you?? hiha hiha :cheers:
I have seen folks like that, crew and transporter, driving suit and shoes, all for a DE!! What typically makes those drivers fast is money and horsepower, not talent. Anyone can stand on the accelerator, but braking and turning are where the real talent is.
In most schools, in group 4 (or equivalent) they allow passing on certain areas, and point by in other areas. Although most schools say pass only on the straights (if your wheel is turned, you are not on the straight), I have never had a problem with point by passing going into or just getting into a turn. in the top run group. I know years ago, BMW NNJ chapter allowed passing anywhere at Lime Rock in the instructor group, so you either had to keep your eyes open and watch the mirror, or drive faster so they couldn't catch you! hiha hiha
If you run PCA down here, I will make sure to come out and be your guardian angel! :haha: Just let me know.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
gsfent said:
Anita
It could happen to anyone, but why does it always seem to happen to you?? hiha hiha :cheers:
I have seen folks like that, crew and transporter, driving suit and shoes, all for a DE!! What typically makes those drivers fast is money and horsepower, not talent. Anyone can stand on the accelerator, but braking and turning are where the real talent is.
In most schools, in group 4 (or equivalent) they allow passing on certain areas, and point by in other areas. Although most schools say pass only on the straights (if your wheel is turned, you are not on the straight), I have never had a problem with point by passing going into or just getting into a turn. in the top run group. I know years ago, BMW NNJ chapter allowed passing anywhere at Lime Rock in the instructor group, so you either had to keep your eyes open and watch the mirror, or drive faster so they couldn't catch you! hiha hiha
If you run PCA down here, I will make sure to come out and be your guardian angel! :haha: Just let me know.
Regards,
Jerry
Jerry,
I don't know, I think you might qualify more as as guardian devil :D or hell raiser even. But seriously, thanks for the generous offer!!

Maybe I'm not explaining well what Pretty Boy did too. I nver saw anything like it. The pass he was trying to make was physically impossible if both of us traveled along our driving lines. He just couldn't fit where he was trying to go without me making significant, radical and sudden changes in my line. If I would of kept going, he's the one who would have gotten pushed off track. I knew he was coming up, but never dreamed he would go there. I was also preparing to move right immediately after completing the turn to let him pass.
Apparently one of the other drivers was in the pits with the corner workers who were complaining about how Pretty Boy was passing everyone in the turns and disobeying basically all the passing rules set forth at the driver's meeting. And how he had been kicked out of the BMW club for similar offenses.
Maybe I get in trouble too 'cause I don't back down that easily :hihi: or so I like to pretend!!
Anita
 

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Anita said:
Jerry,
I knew he was coming up, but never dreamed he would go there. I was also preparing to move right immediately after completing the turn to let him pass.
Anita
OK, Anita, a little confused. Your first post says he tried to pass you on the right as you were making a right hand turn (he would pass on the inside although way too late). The post immediately above indicates you were making a left hand turn and were going to move right after the turn( I assume track out and stay out). If so he would be trying to pass on the outside, which while not impossible is the long way around and would not have put you in danger. Which was it??? ?????? :cheers:
Regards,
Jerry (guardian devil ouich )
 
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