[bmwforlife]

Hi guys,

I am almost out of CPO (November 12th 2014) and I have some weird noises coming from the clutch/drive line, as well as idle fluctuating issue as well as when increasing RPM from idle till 3K (idle or driving) there is pretty significant vibration coming form the engine(almost as I have bad engine mounts)

When car is just idling on a neutral I can hear humming/light grinding noise coming from the transmission, interestingly when I press the clutch, noise disappears (sounds in reverse what should be happening if I had a bad throwout bearing). Also I can hear a free play in drive line going over the bumps when off the gas and when shifting 2nd to 1st (again off the gas), as well as when I decelerate on the highway I can hear some wining noise (sounds like worn out bearing).

So I took a car to dealer, demonstrate the noise to service man, he admitted hearing it (as well as jumping idle issue 600 -1200 any time I start the car and until I drive for at least 2 miles) and told me that he thinks that tranny noise related to the engine idle issue and vibration at low rpm.

So a couple of days later they tole me to come to pick the car.

The solution to idle issue: they added a can of techron additive to the fuel tank and told me to drive at least 2 tanks of fuel (done that nothing changed)

The solution to transmission noise: it is normal, with mileage and wear of "clutch pack" it will end up making some extra noises and won't be completely silent. (dealer told me that BMW service rep was visiting them at that time and that was his conclusion).

The solution to engine vibration: it is normal, S85 vibrates on low rpm until it reaches it's "normal" rpm.(mounts good and no cracking).

I personally feel it is a total BS! The humming/soft grinding noise coming from tranny is either a bad throwout bearing or tranny input shaft bearing or possibly something related to the clutch. Funny thing is that I also still have extended maintenance plan that would cover new clutch as well.

Can anybody suggest if I can fight them somehow and make them find what the issue is?
Does anybody reading this has MT6 transmission and could confirm that there is no difference in noises when idling with clutch released or pressed, I would appreciate that (I am right now at 94K miles).

Regarding fluctuating idle issue I was reading on the board that it could be related to a bad alternator. One thing I noticed today is when I increase engine RPM my dome light in the car becomes a lot brighter and when car goes back to idle it dims back, is this indication of possible bad regulator ?

 

[SilberGrauE60]

What is the real year and miles of your car? Your signature says "2000 M5 carbon black"

How long have you owned/driven it? Is this something that has changed over time?

Fluctuating RPM can be dirty mass airflow (MAF) sensors. Can be cleaned, but carefully. Search it.

Drivetrain noises/vibrations are normal. This is a performance car, not a Lexus.

Since the dealer inspected and found nothing out of ordinary, I think you are out of luck with getting warranty coverage.

 

[Skills]

Go up the chain... Contact one of Carmax's regional QA representatives (not sure what the their title is) and lodge a complaint/concern before your warranty expires. If you are not happy, pursue the dispute resolution steps outlined in your warranty or from other warranty dispute threads here on the board.


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[bmwforlife]

Go up the chain... Contact one of Carmax's regional QA representatives (not sure what the their title is) and lodge a complaint/concern before your warranty expires. If you are not happy, pursue the dispute resolution steps outlined in your warranty or from other warranty dispute threads here on the board.

Thanks for suggestion. I will try to go this path. Have a question though.. why Carmax? What Carmax has to do with BMW CPO warranty? I will search for dispute steps.. I know one dealer can be better than other. Maybe I should try to go to another 3rd BMW dealer. I already went to 2 of them we have here in Phoenix. The first one I went to at the time I didn't have noise complains (I had very loud custom exhaust and could not hear anything but exhaust), but warped front rotors issue. Dealer (BMW of North Scottsdale) told me that it is not covered by CPO. So I went to another one (Chapman on Camelback) and they happily replaced rotors and front brakes as they were due for a scheduled maintenance, why BMW North Scottsdale didn't know about it I have no idea. The only dealer I didn't go yet is Chapman BMW in Chandler.

 

[bmwforlife]

What is the real year and miles of your car? Your signature says "2000 M5 carbon black"

Sorry I have 2. The one I am having issues with is 2008 E60 M5 with 6 speed manual. 94k miles.

How long have you owned/driven it? Is this something that has changed over time?

I bought this car about 3 month ago with 89K, it had custom stainless steel exhaust and it was so loud that I would not possibly hear any noises but exhaust sound. Ever since I replaced custom exhaust with the stock one, I started hearing all the issues.

Fluctuating RPM can be dirty mass airflow (MAF) sensors. Can be cleaned, but carefully. Search it.

I was reading about it and sounds like it can be anything from idle control valves, mafs, vanos etc.. I am just amazed that dealer doesn't know it or doesn't want to know.. but still doesn't make sense whenever dealer does repairs on warranty, dealer gets paid by BMW North America, why not to fix the issue and get paid, instead of adding techron into gas tank and telling me it will go away..

 

[Fiftytwoeighty]

How many miles on your e60?

I had zero drive line noise/vibrations at 104,000+ until my Dinan 3.91 failed after only 8x,xxx. As soon as we got the car up on the rack, you could see the failed diff vibrating, which bent my DS axel.

Details are in my sig.

EDIT: Oops...I just saw you posted the details.

 

[dkz]

my idle fluctuations went away after I replaced my voltage regulator but at your mileage could be anything.

 

[bmwforlife]

How many miles on your e60?

I had zero drive line noise/vibrations at 104,000+ until my Dinan 3.91 failed after only 8x,xxx. As soon as we got the car up on the rack, you could see the failed diff vibrating, which bent my DS axel.

Thanks for info. I figured dealer is blowing me off.. There are "no normal noises" that you should be hearing after releasing the clutch and engaging clutch on the neutral gear. The vibration I am getting not when driving but on the neutral, when car is parked. Engine vibration transfers into car shaking that I can feel just in the parked car. BMW dealer service man felt it as well, however they concluded that engine is designed that way and not very smooth on the low rpm. V10 should be smooth as what I would think.

 

[bmwforlife]

my idle fluctuations went away after I replaced my voltage regulator but at your mileage could be anything.

When regulator was bad, did you noticed any dome light brightness changes when revving the engine ? Or how did you determined it was bad, used voltmeter ?

 

[Skills]

Thanks for suggestion. I will try to go this path. Have a question though.. why Carmax? What Carmax has to do with BMW CPO warranty? I will search for dispute steps.. I know one dealer can be better than other. Maybe I should try to go to another 3rd BMW dealer. I already went to 2 of them we have here in Phoenix. The first one I went to at the time I didn't have noise complains (I had very loud custom exhaust and could not hear anything but exhaust), but warped front rotors issue. Dealer (BMW of North Scottsdale) told me that it is not covered by CPO. So I went to another one (Chapman on Camelback) and they happily replaced rotors and front brakes as they were due for a scheduled maintenance, why BMW North Scottsdale didn't know about it I have no idea. The only dealer I didn't go yet is Chapman BMW in Chandler.

Whoops,, I meant BMW... I just finished reading another Camax thread and got a mixed up. Replace the word CarMax with BMW and go get'em.


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[Skills]

Contact BMW NA. Make sure you lodge your protest/concern before your warranty expires. Worst case, tell them you believe there are problems with the vehicle and ask for your money back. As long as you are still in your first 30 days this should absolutely get their attention. If you let the dealer brush it under the rug for 30 days you will be SOL.


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[dkz]

When regulator was bad, did you noticed any dome light brightness changes when revving the engine ? Or how did you determined it was bad, used voltmeter ?

Well everytime I drove the car it would throw malfunction errors at me and the tachometers would go to 0, power steering would shut off, radio would die, etc. The rpm needle constantly went up and down.

You can check your volts by going through the hidden menu.

 

[bmwforlife]

Well everytime I drove the car it would throw malfunction errors at me and the tachometers would go to 0, power steering would shut off, radio would die, etc. The rpm needle constantly went up and down.

You can check your volts by going through the hidden menu.

Yeah, I called the dealer today. Service adviser told me that if there was an issue with alternator/ idle control or vanos, I would get an engine code. Since I am not getting anything, the fluctuation is due to bad fuel over the time contaminated fuel rail injectors.. So he offered me to do 2xx bucks fuel system cleaning service (removing fuel rail, removing injectors and cleaning them). It would not be covered by CPO or service plan.

 

[bmwforlife]

Contact BMW NA. Make sure you lodge your protest/concern before your warranty expires. Worst case, tell them you believe there are problems with the vehicle and ask for your money back. As long as you are still in your first 30 days this should absolutely get their attention. If you let the dealer brush it under the rug for 30 days you will be SOL.
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Skills, thanks for the information, but what do you mean that if I am in my first 30 days I could get BMW NA attention. Is it due to the fact that my warranty expires in 30 days or, there is something from legal prospective that requires me to contact BMW withing 30 days from the time when the issue was reported?

 

[SilberGrauE60]

Skills, thanks for the information, but what do you mean that if I am in my first 30 days I could get BMW NA attention. Is it due to the fact that my warranty expires in 30 days or, there is something from legal prospective that requires me to contact BMW withing 30 days from the time when the issue was reported?

He's talking about having BMW buy the car back. Sometimes called Lemon Laws. That is, you buy a "lemon" and the manufacturer can't fix it, so states have laws that mandate that the manufacturer must buy the car back from you. But, this is not applicable in your case. You've owned the car too long.

 

[bmwforlife]

He's talking about having BMW buy the car back. Sometimes called Lemon Laws. That is, you buy a "lemon" and the manufacturer can't fix it, so states have laws that mandate that the manufacturer must buy the car back from you. But, this is not applicable in your case. You've owned the car too long.

Oh yes, if it was referred to Lemon law, then it is not a solution in my case for sure, from the law:

(b) The period of two years or twenty-four thousand miles following the date of original delivery of the motor vehicle to the consumer, whichever is earlier.

 

[bmwforlife]

Just wanted to update your guys on the progress I made to resolve issues so far.

I cleaned mafs and removed charcoal air filters and replaced air filter with news ones. Unstable idle issue is gone! and car feel soooo much more responsive.. I am in love with its performance now.

Regarding drive/train noises.. sounds like they are normal. I compared to other M5 and the other one has exact the same noises when shift etc..

I also manged to make dealer replace more things.. It developed some noises from the drive belts/tensioners, dealer replaced tensioner and drive belts under CPO and sounds like is going to replace throttle bodies (had been working on it for past 4 days..) I didn't get a car back yet, Getting new parts is always nice especially when I am almost of warranty