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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well guys as some of you know I am the first gintani powered stage 2 m6 in the states. The car has ran like a bat out of hell and I have tested against superior cars from UGR lambos to zo6 corvettes to twin turbo 350zs to supercharged 5.0 stangs etc. I have been basically decimating all. Well than the issues kepted coming


I've hit a wall though and here goes

Symptoms
Upon delivery of when I received everything was perfectly fine I drove her back about a week later an CEL LIGHT came on. Went to check it out, a misfire. Once I took it to my shop they said the misfire wasn't present but that there was one. Odd right? Cleared the codes they didn't appear again until days later. I raced the UGR Lambo and bam cel light again, went to the shop same thing misfire happened but wasn't present. As I was racing and destroying an Audi R8 v10 I noticed my oil temps went up a little bit passed the middle area and the cel light came on again "odd right?"

Take it back to my shop same stuff, they said "do you have meth?" I said "yup" than they scratched their heads "did you run it without meth?
I said "not really maybe once but that was that" they said "are you tuned for meth usage?" I said "no. Per gintani to protect my motor." They recommended "just make sure you have meth than come back. Finally it happened, as I was driving normally I decide to switch P setting to P1 to test out to see if I got better gas mileage and than the car just went ham. A misfire a permanent one that wouldn't go away this time driving and this time it stayed until I turned the car off. Well when I turned it back on it went away for a little while. I KNEW I NEEDED to take her in so I did, they tested the coil plugs replaced one for testing and than pulled the spark plugs to my
Horror. Pix below




Now at first I was like "ok what the hell am I looking at? "

My tech said "I don't understand why you're fouling your
Plugs but this looks like high speed glazing."

I called gintani and they swore it was water and it was rust on the spark plug.

So after going back and forth with gintani and my
Shop they recommended I go with a cooler plug because my plugs were running too got causing detonation/misfire.

I than called gintani to see if this was right and the stuck by saying it was water. Well I finally decided look clean them off and see what happens. Mind you (all ten of them look like this) I don't get as to why it's happening. I dynoed my car on straight 93 octane with my meth hooked in and it wasn't too far from what gintani said it was putting to the ground. :(.

So here's where it gets better. The car now for some odd reason after regularly driving it I parked it and turn it off an than try to turn it back on, it try's to start than does not and just dies. I don't understand why. If I wait about a min or so it'll than turn on fight but now it almost always does this now. Sometimes the car will just randomly develop an irratical idle and just die while idling but that's a little uncommon. Here are my dyno sheets from when we dyno'd it a few weeks ago (the issue was still going on)


http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/...oads/643A75A0-E3CD-44B0-909A-5A44BFEFB426.jpg

Last dyno pull id say on 93 octane


I don't know what's wrong and it's killing me. I am trying to put a bigger blower on so that I can push over 700rwhp on pump gas but I can't without resolving this issue that WILL NOT GO AWAY. I called gintani multiple times to the point I feel like I am annoying them. They're very solid on what they are saying that it's rust but it's darn impossible to get water in every spark plug like that. Please help me I don't know what to do and I feel like I'm stuck. It sucks too because when I called gintani about it they literally said they have been running these spark plugs on their shops m6 for two years pushing over 100rwhp MORE than me. So now, I just really don't know what to do. At one point I felt like selling the car because I'm almost discouraged after dropping almost 20k in the car motor blower and all and it still does odd ball **** like this. :sad1: I'm scared that if I drop a cooler spark plug it'll mess something up but given gintani saying my spark plugs are perfect for the car , I'm wondering if there is a more serious issue if that is the case. Could it be the motor itself?? It's either sell the car or fly someone from gintani over here and pay for these services. I feel like after dropping so much money on my daily driver I can't go too long without a car. So now im awaiting a call form gintani to see what's up and if maybe they'll be able to fly out here and see what it'll cost me to do these said services. I really don't have anything bad to say about gintani at all they're pretty cool guys but at this point I kind of wished this blower came with a Manuel or something that explained how it worked and what was used so that my shop who deals with bmws can have a much easier understanding rather than figuring it out on their own the hard way (I don't know if this is common practice on every manufacture of blower kits. The car pulls like a champ when I get on it but I feel like I'm hurting the car now at this point since the CEL LIGHT is always on.
 

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Do not change your plugs to a different heat unless the people who tuned your engine guarantee the current curves generated by that plug still allows proper functioning of the ionic current modules. (Unless those are abandoned and a conventional knock sensor used).

The spark plug acts as a sensor for current flow immediately after firing. These plugs were specifically developed/chosen for use with the S85s ionic current sensor.

Aside from that, sorry, I can't be of much help.
 

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Those plugs look like iridium tipped after market not the 2-ground electrode OEM plugs.

Could it be that the glazing (impurities in fuel and/or meth deposited at high temperature) are acting as an insulator thus throwing off the ionic sensing.

At the start of your symptoms it may have been knocked off the tip after each hard run but may be permanently glazed after a few heat cycles.

Why not have new plugs put in and get the methanol from a different source?

Methanol if has been sitting a while can absorb water. My plugs when I used water injection (way back) would look similar but more white due to the carbon cleaning action)

I have no idea where the rust could be coming from, do you have iron liners, if yes it would take a lot of water in the meth to have iron oxidation occurring during combustion to the extent of coating a plug.
 

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First of all I can only speculate since I am not part of the development team for this kit.

My concern is there is little experience with FI on the S85, boosting a high compression engine takes every last bit of spark energy an OEM ignition system can supply, you may be getting misfires not detonation, use a scope to check the piston tops if there is any doubt.

The iridium plugs are known to fire higher density mixtures while requiring less spark energy, it would be interesting to know the gap on these plugs.

As far as the yellow brown deposits (high sulfur content in fuel? try BP they have less than 100 ppm sulfur instead of the usual 500 ppm +).

I have to admit I am out of touch with reading plugs using current high detergent fuels with non lead anti knock agents.

The video below has the same colored deposits as your plug (your plug shown must have been pulled right after a run) under the top carbon layer of the pistons, it just may be inherent to the current fuel formulations (I just do not know)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O90RArIFRyk

You may have better results sending the car to Ginanti where they can hook up an engine analyzer and run on the Dino to verify spark stability under boost.

They claim to keep their tunes around an 11.7 AFR thus do not expect any lean issues.

I am glad you had some fun, appears to have a lot of potential, I hope the ionic current sensing is not a road block to consistent performance under boost
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yo bro, please take that stuff off this post man I like gintani they're hiccups everywhere I'm sure itll get right man. I'm just asking question to get a forth opinion. I will run codes today. Please do not bash them as they have done very well working with my car it's a beast
 

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Gintani has a less than stellar reputation:

Gintani steals tuning code from another company to sell as as their own:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e9...m3-z4-m-z4-m-coupe/162119-rumour-gintani.html

Gintani steals DME code as a baseline for their own tuning:
My Experience with Gintani

Gintani scammed customer and abused his car:
Sevan M.'s Reviews | San Marino | Yelp

Gintani manipulates dyno readings:
Proof of OE/Gintani dyno manipulation
M5_forever,

The 4 posts, are 3-4 years old. I don't doubt that people have had issues but when you take a car like this and modify it you are taking a serious risk. Also in some cases companies can have many successes and happy customers, but all that is posted the complaints.

If they were all that bad would they still be in business?

This the second time I have seen you pull up an old post with issues that you seem to have no 1st hand knowledge of. It's hard to look at 3-4 year old posts with much credibility. That's not the way this forum generally runs. I'm not an fan of either company, but I think your posts are just to flame without really helping.

You might consider just participating where you have direct knowledge.
 
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Gintani has a less than stellar reputation:

Gintani steals tuning code from another company to sell as as their own:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e9...m3-z4-m-z4-m-coupe/162119-rumour-gintani.html

Gintani steals DME code as a baseline for their own tuning:
My Experience with Gintani

Gintani scammed customer and abused his car:
Sevan M.'s Reviews | San Marino | Yelp

Gintani manipulates dyno readings:
Proof of OE/Gintani dyno manipulation

My friend,

You have had nothing nice to say in a large majority of the posts you have made on the m5board in the past week(+). Please do not share your negative opinions regarding any companies in the m5 community unless you have personal experience WITH THAT COMPANY.

Thank you,

Troy Jeup
Proud supporter of the M5board.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 

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Greetings from the M3 side of the house. i see what your are going thru, it is a pain, with my experience on F/I here are a couple things that I would like to share.

Your misfire codes, this has happened to a few members running S/C, look into your belt slipping at high RPMs. This is the issue, because our M engines (Crank) are accelerating so fast, and the torque/ power it's spinning, it actually slipping the belt on the pulley. look at your S/C pulley, and tell me that you see the pulley "glossy" or "shiny". Here is the fix, take the S/C Pulley to any shop with a sand blaster and sand blast the groves, then get rid of your belt and get the Gates "green" belt Heavy duty. Oreilley's Auto parts has this. they have to order it and cross reference the part from your belt to the gates in THE BOOK! This slippage is what is causing the meth to burn and not having the proper Air mixture. that is why the plugs look rusty. this is a good starting point as this "misfire" is where you are getting these issues.

Change your plugs, even if they are iridiums, and you are running meth, gap them, I have gapped them for years as I currently run W/M and have ran NOS on these. close the gap to atleast 24 or 26. Be carefull with the tip, I have never broke one off or bent one.

this is a good start point, reply back with results and I'll have another solution pending your feedback. :M5thumbs:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yes big update


Spoke to Alex at gintani, it doesn't seem like it's the spark plugs. Gintani has stated they have used these spark plugs on their shop car that has 100rwhp more than I do. So, we diagnosed it seems like the fuel pump and fuel pump sending unit may be faulty. We will be swapping out the fuel pump sending unit and fuel filter. Apparently a fuel sending unit with 85k miles may not be keeping up with the demand of fuel. We did have misfires on all cylinders and we had a fuel fault code. I hope this works I'm ready to push 750rwhp already :-/
 

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Good catch, but this is the first time I have heard that no fuel pressure gauge was installed for Dino runs to verify there are no fuel system capacity issues at full power. It used to be SOP for this kind of power increase
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Sorry fellas I own multiple businesses here and have been busy. We changed the fuel pump sending unit and the fuel filter. Car lost that "fall on it's face" part in the power band. I've been running it and it's ridiculously faster now. Smoother. It wasn't the kit or the spark plugs. My fuel filter and fuel sending unit has 85k miles on it, so when you pushing this kind of hp you are asking your fuel pump and fuel filter to actually work right to spec. When you guys put a blower on that v10 make sure you change these things if you have more than 45k miles on your car.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I have videos of me racing a twin turbo mustang 5.0 , a Porsche 911 turbo modded with 600rwhp, Suzuki 1000 liter bikes, an Audi r8 v10, a 585rwhp Cadillac cts V coupe, a 520 rwhp corvette.i know gintani toldr
Not to launch the car because the clutch won't hold but I have a brand new clutch in It and it's held a few launches. I TRULEY believe I can run mid 10s in a 1/4 with the US spec launches at 1500rpm with a perfect wheel an tire combo.
 
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