BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 72 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone have any insight on what Michelin is doing with the Pilot Sport 2 and Pilot Super Sport tire lines.

I was told the PS2 is no longer available in Europe and I can see the PS2 tire line in the US has fewer sizes available.

In the PS2 tire line some of the tires I used over the years that are No Long Available.
235/45ZR17
245/45ZR17
255/40ZR17 - non P code tire.

The PS2 tires I currently use that are still available are:
265/40ZR17
275/40ZR17 - limited availablity

Currently the Pilot Super Sport line has inherited the 235/45ZR17 and 245/45ZR17 but not the 255/40ZR17 and the balance of the larger 17" tire sizes >245 wide have yet to be released.

From a Motor Trend article on the Pilot Super Sport the text below was included.
The beloved PS2 will not disappear overnight, but it will be phased out over the next few years. Some of the odd sizes will stay PS2; Michelin will have to look at the market to see if keeping them is worth the cost. The U.S. market gets Michelin PSS as will the European market will get the same tires, but they will be called PS3 in Europe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
Are you going to be at this coming Friday's Legends of the Autobahn? Michelin will have a display set up there - you could likely ask one of their reps the question and get an informed and factual answer right then and there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
The U.S. market gets Michelin PSS as will the European market will get the same tires, but they will be called PS3 in Europe.
Here they sell Pilot super sport, pilot sport 2 and pilot sport 3. Only PS3 available 235/45-17 and PS2 255/40-17, but they are different load index. Fronts are 97XL and rears 94.

Looks like in original size here are no many options. Hankook S1 evo2, Dunlop sport maxx, Toyo T-1 sport, Nankang NS-2 and some other budget brands.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Are you going to be at this coming Friday's Legends of the Autobahn? Michelin will have a display set up there - you could likely ask one of their reps the question and get an informed and factual answer right then and there.
Yes, I'll be there and I've talked to a couple of Michelin Reps and so far their official "informed and factual answer" has been, they don't know and we'll all need to wait and see if the PSS tire line gets more 17" tires when the PS2 is discontinued. Not a good answer and not a very comfortable position to be in.

I also talked to the Sales Reps at the Tire Rack and they are also in the dark.

The really unsettling part is I have yet to find another tire manufactures with a 255/40, 265/40 and 275/40 in their ZR17 ultra-high/Max performance summer tire line, So, if Michelin pulls out the only option is 2 sets of 18" wheels and that is other than an option I want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,373 Posts
we've had this dilemma in the UK for a while now....

last time I chatted with Michelin about this, we decide that the only option for me was to replace my 265/40-17 rears with 275 as they had the rolling circumference that was within tolerance... problem is, I don't think it's a good idea for the handling...

I don't want to change brands but I'm going to have to, unless the Pilot Sport Cup or PS/3 arrive in my sizes, but, having discussed with people at Michelin in detail, I very much doubt that they will....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
How about if using 245/45-17 rear tire?
That size will fit however the suspension under/oversteer tuning is sensitive to changing the tire size.
Therefore, reducing tire widths will upset the delicate under/oversteer balance and also with a reduced tire patch comes a reduced cornering and braking ability.
IMHO, tire performance is a margin of safety for spirited driving and even 10 mm makes a difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,096 Posts
IIRC standard was 235 all around, and it was an option for 255 rears. If that's the case a size in the middle shouldn't be a problem, though I do agree that you can feel charges in tyre dimensions - I did run 8.5J wheels for a while (all round) and it felt subtly different.

Seems to be available in F1s, if that was the question Eero H. With a 40 or a 45 profile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Michelin Tire Representative - Reply to Questions

I talk to a Michelin tire rep at the Legends of the Autobahn (Monterey, CA, USA) this weekend.
He had access to a list of tire sizes with anticipated new releases and discontinued sizes.
This is what he said;
Pilot Super Sports (PSS) list did not show a 255/40 or wider 17" tire size released for future production.
The Pilot Sport 2 (PS2) would not be discontinued until 2017 and that the current sizes (265/40 & 275/40ZR17 sizes) should remain available until the end of the PS2 production.
The replacement tire for the PS2 would also be a replacement tire for the PSS.
The Rep anticipated the new tire would be called Pilot Sport 4 (new PS4 side wall markings/graphics) and the new PS4 Summer Ultra-Performance tire line should combine the 17" tire sizes from the PSS & PS2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
IIRC standard was 235 all around, and it was an option for 255 rears.
Yes, original size is 235/45 front and rear. I heard that best handling and balance is with those original size tires. However i like how wider rear wheels looks. In size 245/45 there is lot more options than 255/40. Have to think this more next summer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,209 Posts
I run 245/45/17 PS3's on the rear 9j rims with no problems. I do prefer the look of the 255's though, the 245's look a little stretched and not as beefy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I run 245/45/17 PS3's on the rear 9j rims with no problems. I do prefer the look of the 255's though, the 245's look a little stretched and not as beefy.


255/40 are 25" diameter, optional rear 9x17" wheel/tire combination.
235/35 & 265/40 are 25.3" diameter, stock 8x17" wheel/tire combination.
245/45 & 275/40 are 25.6" diameter + oversize 8x17" or 9x17" wheel/tire combination.


Attached photo of my M5 with PS2's with 255/40/17 front and 265/40/17 rear on 9x17" wheels all around.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Have to think this more next summer.
Now that summer is close.

I like to buy Michelin or Pirelli, but 235/45+255/40 set not available with correct load index. They are front 97 and rear 94, how about handling if rear tire is softer? If i buy 225/45 front tire then load index would be ok 94/94. Or 225/45+235/45 94/97.

Or should i buy Hankook, Vredestein or Toyo? They offer 98XL rear 255/40 tires.

I think 245/45 is too chubby even 9inch rear wheel. Also 235/45 looks too fat on 8inch wheel. Is 225->255 too much staggered?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,109 Posts
Eero, for what it's worth, I have two sets of wheels: a set of 18x9 Hamanns, and a set of 17x8's that I bought originally for winter wheels...Elbrus or something.

Both sets have 245's in the summertime, for wet and dry conditions when I take the car to the track. All my 3-season tires are Pilot Super Sports; the best street tire I've ever met. They are as fast as 180/200 treadwear tires on the track, in the dry....in fact, Bimmerworld uses them on their Chumpcar. And in the wet....oh damn, are they LOVELY. They will make anyone a hero, in the wet, and run away from the 180 treadwear tires.

The 18's use 245x35x18, the 17's use 245x40x17. The Primacy tires are not Max Performance tires like the PSS, but that may not be as crucial to you as it is to me, since I use my car to teach on the track. I'm sure that the Primacys will give better longevity though: I get only about 15,000 miles on my PSS tires. ((95%+ is street use))

I'd like to afford a set of track tires, but I'd have to buy the tires, and the suspension necessary to keep them flat on the racetrack -- the PSS's allow a certain amount of rolling over on the sidewalls. I have a pair of SSR 17x9.5's that fit my car on the rear, with 275x40x17's...but I really like an oversteering or neutral car, so I may need to just leave them on the porch, since I can't fit a similar size on the front.

I will add this, having mounted and balanced many hundreds of tires, between my racing and my work: There is no more perfect tire than a Michelin. On a new wheel, another brand may take 25 to 50 grams to balance.....and a Michelin will take 7 grams . Make mine Michelin, even though I can't afford them.

(Bridgestone does have a new RE 071 tire, 200 treadwear, which they swear kicks the PSS's butt.).....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eero H and raymondw

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Thanks.

Michelin PSS not available here at proper size. I dont drive track, only few times a year i drive meeting etc. So tires will dry out before wear out. Original tires was Michelin and Pirelli was optional. Original fahrzeugbrief says nur-oder Michelin/Pirelli (Only Michelin or Pirelli). So 235/45+255/40 Pirelli offers Pzero neroGT, but rear tire load index is lower than front. Michelin only offers Primace HP.

Or should i buy all four 235/45-17 despite wider rear wheels? Or 225/45 front and 235/45 rear so it will be staggered.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,941 Posts
We fitted a set of new 255/40ZR17 sized Michelin PS2's to the rear of my E34 M5 yesterday. Load index is 94Y, which is more then enough for an E34 M5. I agree that non-manufacturer specific variant of the PS2 has a sidewall that is a little too soft, but going to higher load-indexes (e.g. 97XL) compromises the weight of the tire to much only for being capable of carrying a weight that will never be required for an E34 M5. I therefore decided for the Porsche specific variant that is a little more costly, but has a stiffer sidewall construction that is comparable to the XL variants, but without structural changes to the sidewall.

The main advantage came with balancing. We got both of them within a one gramme unbalance simply by removing a few weights compared to the previous PS2's (non N-coded from 2005 production).

Michelin now manufactures the PS2 according to the third revised spec from Porsche. Tyres that adhere to that requirements can be identified by the seperate N3 marking.
 
1 - 20 of 72 Posts
Top