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Peter B said:
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101842

soon there will be 1000hp 4 door sedans coming out of Germany. What is BMW's philosophy on forced induction?
Well, six or seven hundred, anyway...

Not really that surprising, I suppose, but at some point the eco-weenies or insurers will put a stop to all this fun - they always do - still, it means we all get to pick out the future Hemi 'Cudas for the next generation... :)

BTW, the supercharged V8 "H1" engine in the Alpina B5/B6/B7 was reputed to be putting out around 650bhp on the test bench, with production power in normal European conditions somewhere just north of 500bhp.

Personally, I have no problem with forced induction, even if the throttle response will never be quite as crisp as with N/A.
 

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What's the point in developing cars with such unreasonable horsepower numbers, anyway? I mean you can't even harness a 330i's full potential on any public road, anyway... o.k. you might think of motorways, German Autobahn, but you know that's just infant behavior to take joy in "hey I just destroyed that f****** Porsche/Ferrari/BMW/Viper/whatever with my oh so brutal AMG" ... and don't start talking about stoplight drag races, that's even worse. I mean beating other cars on motorways or drag races isn't exactly what I'd call "Sheer driving pleasure". All I can hope for is that BMW - and especially its M division - keep to the core values that I love BMWs for, namely precise and connected steering, immediate response, sharp throttle, etc... to build cars that are fun to drive in a city as well as on a race track... cause it's on a race track where "Sheer driving pleasure" actually takes place... and I am still waiting for the day when I can call a AMG to be a pleasure to drive on a race track. The horsepower race is nothing I'd like to see BMW win in, as long as they keep their cars driveable. A current E55 AMG already got traction problems and if you turn off the driving aids then... you know what I mean... so I don't see any point in developing a 700bhp AMG... BMW keep to your tradition :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
but how's the m5 with an smg so different from an amg with speedshift besides handling a bit better? i lowered my car for $250 and put a set of 19's on them and it handles great. i have even taken it to 2 scca solo2 events and done well. on the track arent the 2 closer than ever? my first beast was a 98 m3 4 door (have to have a 4) and loved it but that was the last year of a 4. im an hp freak and i do love smoking the vette, cobra, any ferrari south of 100k b/c they are amazed to see what a 4 door can do. but all of the old reasons for the m5, ie. stick shift are going by the way side. im not dedicated to any brand, i love all cars but with the 496hp e55 out now for its 3rd year and an m5 just around the bend, is anyone here who is a bmer dead set against an amg no matter what? granted the e is a little boring looking at stock and the m5 has a polarizing look (to some) so it seems to me theres no great difference anymore OTHER than the hp wars. WHO CANT USE MORE HP??? props to the new m5, cant wait to see them in person.
 

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guffit said:
What's the point in developing cars with such unreasonable horsepower numbers, anyway? I mean you can't even harness a 330i's full potential on any public road, anyway... o.k. you might think of motorways, German Autobahn, but you know that's just infant behavior to take joy in "hey I just destroyed that f****** Porsche/Ferrari/BMW/Viper/whatever with my oh so brutal AMG" ... and don't start talking about stoplight drag races, that's even worse. I mean beating other cars on motorways or drag races isn't exactly what I'd call "Sheer driving pleasure". All I can hope for is that BMW - and especially its M division - keep to the core values that I love BMWs for, namely precise and connected steering, immediate response, sharp throttle, etc... to build cars that are fun to drive in a city as well as on a race track... cause it's on a race track where "Sheer driving pleasure" actually takes place... and I am still waiting for the day when I can call a AMG to be a pleasure to drive on a race track. The horsepower race is nothing I'd like to see BMW win in, as long as they keep their cars driveable. A current E55 AMG already got traction problems and if you turn off the driving aids then... you know what I mean... so I don't see any point in developing a 700bhp AMG... BMW keep to your tradition :)
Very well said pal, divine words! I totally agree with you. It's all about pleasure and not just power!!! :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
i thought pleasure was what mb's were about? now you get pleasure with monster power. and why isnt 700hp a good thing? you go faster in a straight line than brake hard for the next corner. on a track or a desalate road. i live with desolate roads around me and a 330i or a 230k would bore me to death. wouldnt you rather have a 0-60 in 3.8 versus 4.7? its just basic acceleration we all love. and with the smg were now on the same page. so it doenst matter how much power an amg has itll always get flattened by an m on the track b/c the amg is a boat? honestly, the cars arent that far apart and unlike some bmer fellas on the mb site who flame away im just looking to see some honest back and forth but no one seems to want to have a diologue. hmmm...... just looking for an open discussion on the two.
 

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Peter B said:
i thought pleasure was what mb's were about? now you get pleasure with monster power. and why isnt 700hp a good thing? you go faster in a straight line than brake hard for the next corner. on a track or a desalate road. i live with desolate roads around me and a 330i or a 230k would bore me to death. wouldnt you rather have a 0-60 in 3.8 versus 4.7? its just basic acceleration we all love. and with the smg were now on the same page. so it doenst matter how much power an amg has itll always get flattened by an m on the track b/c the amg is a boat? honestly, the cars arent that far apart and unlike some bmer fellas on the mb site who flame away im just looking to see some honest back and forth but no one seems to want to have a diologue. hmmm...... just looking for an open discussion on the two.
People here seems less concern about pure straight line speed or stop light drag race than the people over in any MB/AMG board. And what good 700hp makes if you can only put 50% of the horsepower on the road, or less in turns?
even an full Automatic BMW will still perform in turns while a manual E55 would not, and that's down to how the cars were initially designed. and hence, I 100% don't agree with your "with SMG were are now on the same page."
It would be great if MB releases their next AMG's with 700hp while making sure the chassis can at least cope with the HP/Torque.

And by looking at your thread title, it is hard to convince that you are looking for an open discussion on a BMW board.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
mb upping the stakes is provocative??? mhh puts bye bye e55 :byebye: on the amg board and thats ok i guess. my statements are as unbiased as humanly possible, i just dont know anyone who has an m5 so where better to go then the m5 board to discuss the "other" 500hp 4 door german sedan. jeez, not one single reply to one single inquiry i have. only assertions that amg's are essentially a "monster motor in a buick". im sorry but i thought it would go better than this. is the typical bmer more closed-minded than an mbr? who knows but give and take isnt happening here. its your way and thats it.
 

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Peter B said:
mb upping the stakes is provocative??? mhh puts bye bye e55 :byebye: on the amg board and thats ok i guess. my statements are as unbiased as humanly possible, i just dont know anyone who has an m5 so where better to go then the m5 board to discuss the "other" 500hp 4 door german sedan. jeez, not one single reply to one single inquiry i have. only assertions that amg's are essentially a "monster motor in a buick". im sorry but i thought it would go better than this. is the typical bmer more closed-minded than an mbr? who knows but give and take isnt happening here. its your way and thats it.
I think I answered you question on "WHY NOT MORE HP". The thing is bmer demand control > power where mber perfer power > control. I think this fact is extremely obvious from a short study of the companies' history. It is like I go over to MB board and scream about why MB doesn't make a better handling car. I closely follow MBworld.org and know members there react to anything regarding BMW. It is either dumb or you are just out of your mind to come all the way here to post a stupid question like this.
 

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hiha they call M5board flamers, they act exactly the same. Just go there and read, its all about how bad BMW and how superior Mercedes is. What they dont seem to understand, both are great cars but attract to different people.

I go with the M5, cause I like the design and M cars has always handled well and been a pleasure to drive. One second slower or faster, who cares. When I'm old I might go with an E55 :hihi:

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102219
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
BMWforever said:
It is either dumb or you are just out of your mind to come all the way here to post a stupid question like this.
careful, ad hominem attacks might get you banned. has anyone ever driven a 211? and im simply "asking" hey, my car has 620+ hp, has been lowered and has 19's, maybe an amg might do A LOT better on the track than previously thought, no? i havent insulted anyone! and ive owned bmw's, i like them. but there is only, "your car is a pig" "we like our hp because we can use it all anyway so yours is unwarranted" "we smoke you on the track" and "youre an infant because you can beat a viper etc in a drag race"

anyway, im getting the point guys. i could say my 03 will crush any new m5, modded or not, anywhere, anytime on any street or any track and take cash bets on it and id still have no takers and beat my chest at the BEGINNING of this thread like a very select few have on the mb forums but i didnt because a, gustav whould have banned it, as he should and b, thats not who i am. this was moved though??? so ill spare myself of anymore attacks and leave this thread and thanks hythe, you at least got it right.
 

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Ok guys, how about an F16 jet? 33000hp, 500-1000km/h in just 2,8 seconds. Don't know anything about handling. Is this better of an MB or a BMW? hiha
 

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I find it so entertaining to hear you take the “handing road” when the E60 M5 is still a pig coming in at right about 2 tons. If handling were really all of that, wouldn’t you be looking at an actual sports car?

A Z4 (I love mine) handles fairly well
As do some Porsche’s
A Lotus Elise even better
The Z06 will be faster handle better and be cheaper

I have no doubt that the E60 will handle somewhat better (Dust, smoke or kill is pure over statement) than the W211 E55 but it is not capable of counteracting the laws of physics.
 

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Here we go again................

With 11.500 members on the M5 board, someone will always reply with the old hp/traction thing. This is simply something you have to live with. The MBWorld has got 23.000 members. Negative things will now and then be said about the M5. We have to accept this. Why? Cars create a lot of emotions. If you love MB, you will most likely not feel the same about BMW or Audi. If you love BMW, then the other two will probably not be on top of your Christmas list. Will we ever agree on which car is better? Of course not, this is where the passion for "our" car kicks in.

What I find funny is that some of us also register to other board, just to tell our new "buddies" that the grass is greener at the other side of the fence. These are usually new and young members that don't represent her/his "own" community in the best possible way. I doubt that many long-time MBWorld or M5board members would sign in both places, unless they have a serious interest the other make as well. The next time either parties reads a post from a "grass is greener" member, check out her/his status on the other board before you take the post to seriously. My guess is that the person has about 30 posts on her/his own board, and therefore hardly represent a proper MBWorld/M5board member very well.
 

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It's true that certain marques seem to evoke particular rivalries, especially in some countries - e.g. BMW/Merc, Porsche/Ferrari, potentially Aston/Bentley - but it's really a tad puerile. If the current generation of Mercs were built properly and went round corners as well as the equivalent BMW, I'd happily buy one.

I just wish these two marques were still racing against each other in one of the leading championships (NOT counting F1 - just the ones where there is some relation to road-going reality...)
 

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Ditto said:
Here we go again................

With 11.500 members on the M5 board, someone will always reply with the old hp/traction thing. This is simply something you have to live with. The MBWorld has got 23.000 members. Negative things will now and then be said about the M5. We have to accept this. Why? Cars create a lot of emotions. If you love MB, you will most likely not feel the same about BMW or Audi. If you love BMW, then the other two will probably not be on top of your Christmas list. Will we ever agree on which car is better? Of course not, this is where the passion for "our" car kicks in.

What I find funny is that some of us also register to other board, just to tell our new "buddies" that the grass is greener at the other side of the fence. These are usually new and young members that don't represent her/his "own" community in the best possible way. I doubt that many long-time MBWorld or M5board members would sign in both places, unless they have a serious interest the other make as well. The next time either parties reads a post from a "grass is greener" member, check out her/his status on the other board before you take the post to seriously. My guess is that the person has about 30 posts on her/his own board, and therefore hardly represent a proper MBWorld/M5board member very well.
Nice words! This is a serious, neutral discussion. Although IMO it is not always like as you said.
 

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lasovan said:
Nice words! This is a serious, neutral discussion. Although IMO it is not always like as you said.
Agree. I just created a stereotype "board immigrant" to help me share my point of view. :byebye:
 
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