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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Maximum power, NATURALLY ASPIRATED, for S62<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

I have been in love with S62 and was wondering how much power it could produce, in naturally aspirated trim.<O:p</O:p
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On my dyno dynamics, S62 made 292 whp, bone stock. Please don’t argue about the base power, this changes from dyno to dyno. The logic which I am pointing is different and as follows:<O:p</O:p
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Then we changed the pistons with 12.0:1 compression J.E<O:p</O:p
Con rods were stock.<O:p</O:p
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Cylinder head ported<O:p</O:p
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Crankshaft balanced for the new light weight pistons<O:p</O:p
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Schrick 268 degree camshafts, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
1 mm</st1:metricconverter> intake and exhaust valves for some better breating<O
11,3 mm</st1:metricconverter> lift <O:p</O:p

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Cold air intake kit/ a copy of AA, which we use, it is not a very cold intake, better than OEM. But a wilder intake system (below this page) can add more air. <O:p</O:p
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Removal of cat converters

Supersprint mufflers


Removal of resonators.
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I have tuned the OEM ECU, where the air fuel ratios are set to 12,8:1 and ignition maps are optimized. <O:p</O:p
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Vanos maps are re-programmed<O:p</O:p
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Result power is now 353 whp. This is an increase of 61 whp from stock, which is equal to 87 flywheel horsepower.<O:p</O:p
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This is not the maximum power we can get out of the S62. What can be done more?

Schrick`s 268 cams are not that good, this is my own opinion. Why cause the peak power with the Schrick cams come at around 200 rpm over standard peak power. This meant we limit the max engine speed at the original 7000 rpm. There is simply no need to rev over 7000 rpm as the power stops increasing after 6800 rpm.<O:p</O:p
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Now to make more power, <O:p</O:p
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To make more naturally aspirated, custom made cams, with for example 284 degree would add more power. Thus the peak power will be made 7200-7500 rpm. <O:p</O:p
Add to this a DRY SUMP OIL SYSTEM.<O:p</O:p
Add to this an ELECTRIC FAN.<O:p</O:p
Cutting holes into the hood, and directing air from these hoods into the intake manifold, sounds mean, but this will be the least restrictive intake. <O:p</O:p
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The software should be dyno tuned with great care and detail.</O:p
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With the wilder cams, dry sump and electric fan there will be more Naturally Aspirated Power. Over 353 whp, how much I don’t know, but more than 353 whp.<O:p</O:p
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I have not tested the latter set up, but some brave-hearted M5 owners can test. I was stuck was 353 whp, maybe Schrick can custom make 284 cams ?????? and a dry sump is system where you need to have experience, I have no dry sump experience.
<O:p</O:p

Mert<O:p</O:p
 

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So you just raised your compression ratios?
 

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What's not to like about forced induction?? ?????? ;)

The best I've heard of is Martin Christensen's NA S62 (All German Auto). It has intake, cams, throttle bodies, air stacks, larger injectors from Dinan and custom headers. Crank hp is 553 @7200 Rpm. All internals are 100% stock. I don't know what dyno he used. This engine is in his Baja off-road racing buggy. I wish I had more details, but that's all I know about it. I have an inquiry to him on whether this configuration could be applied to street cars for those who are not concerned about passing emissions inspections. Here's a pix I snapped during a brief visit before I had to rush off to the airport.

Dave
 

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For some reason, this one thread, the html or the format seems to be all over the place.
 

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For some reason, this one thread, the html or the format seems to be all over the place.
And I thought that it was just my browser....because it is still a couple hours to happy hour....cherrsagai


Mark
 

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Oh yes, here we can fill with 100 octane Shell V-Power, a litre costs 2,5 USD. One full tank costs 150 USD. :crying:

I love high Compression Ratios.
Good outcome, but at what cost? If just a theoretical exercise, good information. But in the real world, expense is a big factor. Opening the motor, adding pistons, changing cams and even porting the heads needs someone with a fair degree of skill so it is done correctly and put back together without any leftover pieces!!:eek:h:
Care to share the cost of parts and the number of hours of labor that went into 87 crank horsepower? :cheers:
Regards,
Jerry
 

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Good outcome, but at what cost? If just a theoretical exercise, good information. But in the real world, expense is a big factor. Opening the motor, adding pistons, changing cams and even porting the heads needs someone with a fair degree of skill so it is done correctly and put back together without any leftover pieces!!:eek:h:
Care to share the cost of parts and the number of hours of labor that went into 87 crank horsepower? :cheers:
Regards,
Jerry
Jerry,

As I understand the thread, he got 353 RWHP from the motor. You and I run about 360 RWHP with our header set ups...so I hope that there would be more gains with porting, cams and 1+mm valves...

Mark
 

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Jerry,

As I understand the thread, he got 353 RWHP from the motor. You and I run about 360 RWHP with our header set ups...so I hope that there would be more gains with porting, cams and 1+mm valves...

Mark
+1...what about the Dinan S2 set-up....NA motor mostly stock internals..470 crank hp right???..cams & rods should give you a bit more.
 

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Did I miss something OR did Mert's S62 NOT have any Headers. Yes he has NO Resonator and SS Cans ... But No Headers .&. NO Larger Throttle Bodies and matching Software should be good for about 20 to 30 More HP.
 

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Jerry,

As I understand the thread, he got 353 RWHP from the motor. You and I run about 360 RWHP with our header set ups...so I hope that there would be more gains with porting, cams and 1+mm valves...

Mark
360 from what number stock? Dyno's vary considerably, you need to look at the gain number.
 

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360 from what number stock? Dyno's vary considerably, you need to look at the gain number.
That is a valid method of measuring gains, unless the "low" ~290HP value was caused by an ignition problem or something. If it was running on 7-1/2 cylinders due to a tuning issue and then modifications were made that coincidently corrected the defect, the mods themselves might have actually resulted in 0HP gain. The stock dyno test baseline assumes the motor was in perfect tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That is a valid method of measuring gains, unless the "low" ~290HP value was caused by an ignition problem or something. If it was running on 7-1/2 cylinders due to a tuning issue and then modifications were made that coincidently corrected the defect, the mods themselves might have actually resulted in 0HP gain. The stock dyno test baseline assumes the motor was in perfect tune.

no, all 8 cylinders were healthy. Base power 290 at the wheels.

A member on this board had his M5 measured in USA on Dynamics. He had huge numbers such as 365 whp. then i looked at his dyno reports, saw the CORRECTION FACTOR and warned him. his power was close to our power, on dyno dynamics.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Good outcome, but at what cost? If just a theoretical exercise, good information. But in the real world, expense is a big factor. Opening the motor, adding pistons, changing cams and even porting the heads needs someone with a fair degree of skill so it is done correctly and put back together without any leftover pieces!!:eek:h:
Care to share the cost of parts and the number of hours of labor that went into 87 crank horsepower? :cheers:
Regards,
Jerry

Jerry, now it is 5,34 in the morning. I am back from tuning S62 twin charged where we use 3 BIG BOSCH MOTORSPORT fuel pumps. cherrsagai drinkin fuelll

87 horses at the motor, in a Naturally Aspirated way, is expensive.

All the mods, which i did and which i did not do, will cost approx. 50.000 USD. There is the expensive labor, electronics....

It all depends, if one wants to go the NA way.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It would be an assumption, as I did not test all of the NA mods that I mentioned. With all those mods, including wilder cams, custom grind, dry sump.... an increase of 100 at the wheels seems to be possible.

I dont have another M5 to do all that NA Mods. Just a project, maybe somebody will try this. However, as gsfent wrote, the dry sump, blue print, balance require exteme care(s)

The other route is FI, which is also tough, if the envelope is pushed for more and more ponnies.

i am working for the last 14 days on a S A F E fuel system, just have been able to make it safe. 3 pumps, 2 fuel lines, 2 filters, 1 huge regulator, one bi return line.... ALl had to be safe, after watching a couple of viper twin turbos burning :eek:

BAck to the most powerful NA system, who can build custom grind cams for our S62s?
 

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Just a question... if we are going all out, how much power does the vanos cost us?

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Just a question... if we are going all out, how much power does the vanos cost us?

Dave

Very good question:

By preserving the `SUPERCHARGER PULLEY DIAMETER` and `REPROGRAMMING VANOS MAPS` boost is increased from 6 psi to 11 psi. this is an increase of (14,7 + 11) / (14,7 + 6) = 1,25 this means an increase of 25 % in boost pressure.

This is an increase of 25 % in boost pressure with just changing the VANOS = cam timing.

Our M5s and M3s have a lot of overlap at full throttle and this is not good for supercharging.

MERT
 
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