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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, today I had 2 error codes on my m6 2007.
004F80
004F85
I can no longer put 4th in the gearbox.

All other changes work without problem. If I try to put 4th, the car goes into emergency and a red gear appears.
Has it happened to someone, and if so, how did you solve it?
 

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What happened when the red gear appear? what the car do after? All other gears shifts ok?
Using software get to the status page and view the current value for all solenoids and 2nd/4th solenoid and shift rod, all must have values not Zero.
Next is to run "clutch valve characteristic and slip point" adaptation, be aware it may fail and end up with not functional car and require new clutch job, don't do gearbox adaption as it may fail.
It is also possible the 2nd/4th solenoid leaking or damaged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What happened when the red gear appear? what the car do after? All other gears shifts ok?
Using software get to the status page and view the current value for all solenoids and 2nd/4th solenoid and shift rod, all must have values not Zero.
Next is to run "clutch valve characteristic and slip point" adaptation, be aware it may fail and end up with not functional car and require new clutch job, don't do gearbox adaption as it may fail.
It is also possible the 2nd/4th solenoid leaking or damaged.
I was going approximately 60km / h and when I was going to go to 3rd, the number on the box kept flashing, jumping to 5th gear, all other changes went well. Now only the 4th gear does not enter. I will check the solenoid values with a scanner.

950447
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What happened when the red gear appear? what the car do after? All other gears shifts ok?
Using software get to the status page and view the current value for all solenoids and 2nd/4th solenoid and shift rod, all must have values not Zero.
Next is to run "clutch valve characteristic and slip point" adaptation, be aware it may fail and end up with not functional car and require new clutch job, don't do gearbox adaption as it may fail.
It is also possible the 2nd/4th solenoid leaking or damaged.
With INPA run to check the box and adapt everything with the current clutch wear. I proved and went into 4th gear, then accelerated a bit more and tried to get into 4th gear and gave an error. I also put all the gears with the same scanner and it did not give an error, it is only when I am driving. Apparently it is a clutch issue. The pump marks good pressure and does not give errors, the sensor does not indicate errors either.


950733
 

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Delete all fault, test the car and when error appear access the faults page and capture screen and post the error description.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
if it is the clutch, why other gears go in?
The only errors it shows are 004F80 and 004F85, I will try to make the video entering the 4th gear. The detail is that when I put all the gears with the scanner they go in well, there are no problems or errors, it is only when I accelerate fast and go from 3rd to 4th. The last thing that happened yesterday when I tested, was that the clutch slipped, it is not engaging at all, so I think that is the problem.
 

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I know the fault codes are 4F80 and 4F85 and what they means, what I need is to access the fault page and capture the screen of the fault details, there we will see what is the condition was when the fault triggered.

Slipping is different than unable to engage a gear, clutch slips happens after the gear is engaged.
All other gears engage and disengage normal?

You may have a leak in the 4t gear shift solenoid or bad synchro inside the gearbox but not common. Let's first see the details about the fault the video of Analog 3 page before you shift to 4th gear to see what happens to narrow down our troubleshooting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I know the fault codes are 4F80 and 4F85 and what they means, what I need is to access the fault page and capture the screen of the fault details, there we will see what is the condition was when the fault triggered.

Slipping is different than unable to engage a gear, clutch slips happens after the gear is engaged.
All other gears engage and disengage normal?

You may have a leak in the 4t gear shift solenoid or bad synchro inside the gearbox but not common. Let's first see the details about the fault the video of Analog 3 page before you shift to 4th gear to see what happens to narrow down our troubleshooting.
I went for a drive with the car to record the request. Now I got 3 errors.
950747

950748

950749



The requested video will continue, the problem now does not happen when raising the gears, it happens when going down from 5th to 4th, it feels as if the clutch does not reach to engage and the change is returned.



The other thing that I felt a sound that the clutch is slipping and the new error that appeared is regarding that.
 

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Thank You for taking the time to post these details.

The video shows exactly what I talked about in other threads regarding the shift valve solenoids slapping back and forth which I believe is a failure or leak in the shift solenoid but this is the first time seeing it in action. Fault 4F85 showed 4th gear shift solenoid (PWV4) with 0MA during the 4th gear shift and that could be a reason of the adverted direction hydraulic pressure because of the leak and possible the ECU shut down the solenoid with 0MA to protect the gearbox.

Again, I don't think it is the clutch because it would fail the adaptation process and the car may not get you to 4th gear, it may just fail at 1st or 2nd gears. The clutch engaged and disengaged successfully in the video on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears.
How old your clutch is by the way?

I think you will have to drop the transmission for shift solenoids O'rings replacement and also may do all the preventive maintenance like inspecting the gear position wiring harness and isolate the wires, flip the slave mounting bolts, clean the SMG pump motor. There is DIY's for all that on the forum also you will find the material and sizing of the solenoids O'rings.

Hope all this make sense, let's us informed and show us how you going to tackle this and what was the results.
 

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when I put all the gears with the scanner they go in well
When the diagnostic software manually shift the gear it uses the maximum hydraulic pressure and that may overcome a leak in the solenoids but in normal operation especially in low SMG sitting the pressure is much lower like in your fault details it was around 53 bar which is not enough to push the solenoid and gear to position.
You can test this, put the SMG sitting to S6 and shift to 4th the gear may shift under heavy load but if the leak is severe it may not. You can also view Analog 1 and watch the pressure drop when you shift to 4th.
Give Feed back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Thank You for taking the time to post these details.

The video shows exactly what I talked about in other threads regarding the shift valve solenoids slapping back and forth which I believe is a failure or leak in the shift solenoid but this is the first time seeing it in action. Fault 4F85 showed 4th gear shift solenoid (PWV4) with 0MA during the 4th gear shift and that could be a reason of the adverted direction hydraulic pressure because of the leak and possible the ECU shut down the solenoid with 0MA to protect the gearbox.

Again, I don't think it is the clutch because it would fail the adaptation process and the car may not get you to 4th gear, it may just fail at 1st or 2nd gears. The clutch engaged and disengaged successfully in the video on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears.
How old your clutch is by the way?

I think you will have to drop the transmission for shift solenoids O'rings replacement and also may do all the preventive maintenance like inspecting the gear position wiring harness and isolate the wires, flip the slave mounting bolts, clean the SMG pump motor. There is DIY's for all that on the forum also you will find the material and sizing of the solenoids O'rings.

Hope all this make sense, let's us informed and show us how you going to tackle this and what was the results.

The clutch is the original that came with the car, so it must be 14 years old. I will check the solenoids, but if or if I should change the clutch since it slips in all gears if I accelerate hard.

I will review the tutorials to do the complete maintenance to the box since I plan to lower it to change the clutch.


I forgot to comment, now the problem is when lowering the gears, not when raising them. And yellow gear error appeared
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
When the diagnostic software manually shift the gear it uses the maximum hydraulic pressure and that may overcome a leak in the solenoids but in normal operation especially in low SMG sitting the pressure is much lower like in your fault details it was around 53 bar which is not enough to push the solenoid and gear to position.
You can test this, put the SMG sitting to S6 and shift to 4th the gear may shift under heavy load but if the leak is severe it may not. You can also view Analog 1 and watch the pressure drop when you shift to 4th.
Give Feed back.
Now the problem is when lowering the gear, leave the box in S1 and raise the gears well, but it feels like the clutch is not fully grasping, on several occasions the yellow gear appeared and the rpm went up without the car moving forward. I did all the tests close to where I live, so I didn't go beyond 60km / h. The clutch is the original factory, the car has 53.XXX KM

I'll try another day on analog 1 to see how the pressure drops.
 

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@flacoramos,
I would disagree, none one possibility the GPS causing this.
Because:
  • All GPS are reading fine and have values. It is clear at fault 4F80.
  • The pressure control valves, the shift valves, and the clutch valve electrical signals are independent from the GPS electrical signal and they are independent from one another. Independent positive and ground ECU pins assigned for each solenoid.
  • The pressure control valves and the shift valves don't use 5V reference signal, they uses +12V terminal 15 variable current.
  • Both DRV2 and PWV4 shifted fine during 2nd gear shifting.
  • The GPS is a feed back doesn't control.
 

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Lowering gear means from 5th to 4th and 4th to 3rd?
on several occasions the yellow gear appeared and the rpm went up without the car moving forward
Is that from a dead stop? what gear are on the display? if the car stopped and that shift solenoid slaps like that no gear will be selected until it stops, what do you do to stop that solenoid slap, do you just wait while the engine running or you shut down the car and then it stops?
Also I want to see what happen at the pressure "Analog 1" when the solenoid slaps, does the pressure drop and the pump kicks on, try to listen under the car, if that happened to you and doesn't stop disconnect the 40 pin SMG ECU connector, it should cut the signal and may stops so you can start or drive the car again especially if the pressure drop to below 50 bar or to zero, then the pump should kick back on to build up the pressure so you can start the car and shift again. You can also skip 4th gear, shift from 3rd to 5th manually until you fix it no D drive.
The clutch if not abused can serve you another 50XXX km.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Lowering gear means from 5th to 4th and 4th to 3rd?

Is that from a dead stop? what gear are on the display? if the car stopped and that shift solenoid slaps like that no gear will be selected until it stops, what do you do to stop that solenoid slap, do you just wait while the engine running or you shut down the car and then it stops?
Also I want to see what happen at the pressure "Analog 1" when the solenoid slaps, does the pressure drop and the pump kicks on, try to listen under the car, if that happened to you and doesn't stop disconnect the 40 pin SMG ECU connector, it should cut the signal and may stops so you can start or drive the car again especially if the pressure drop to below 50 bar or to zero, then the pump should kick back on to build up the pressure so you can start the car and shift again. You can also skip 4th gear, shift from 3rd to 5th manually until you fix it no D drive.
The clutch if not abused can serve you another 50XXX km.


Now I can go from 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th without problems, but when I go from 5th to 4th I get the error of the red gear. The clutch is no longer engaging, it is slipping when accelerating hard, so it must be replaced. I'll see to record another video with analog 1.

Reference video of what happens when I hit the accelerator.

 

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Does the clutch slip as in the video in other gears than in 4th? for example 1st gear or 5th and 6th gear, anything away from 4th gear and after the solenoid stop going back and forth? if yes then I think you have 2 problems, worn out clutch and possible flywheel and shifting solenoid problems, I don't think a worn out clutch cause this shifting problem and the car shifts other gears just fine. Just keep testing and monitoring Analog 1 and 3 to have a complete picture of the sequence when you drive. If the gear is stuck and you are lost you may want to know which gear you are at by going status>other the first top on the left where the indication of the current gear, if not in neutral the car will not start, put it in neutral manually by going to activate>engage gear>neutral, if that happened while the shift solenoid slapping then you have to wait till it stop or disconnect the ECU plug as I mentioned before and wait for the pressure to climb up again then the gear may follow your manual activation to neutral and the car start again.
 
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