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Discussion Starter #1
Is the RS6 really what BMW intended the M5 to compete against? It appears to me that the M5 was wiping the floor with the S6 and in 2002 audi just slapped twin turbos on an S6 and called it an RS6. The RS6 was 10-15 grand more than the E39 M5. It appears the RS6 will be about 10-15 grand more than the M5. I have seen claims of £77,625 which is about 150 grand in USD.

The S6 is a high performance version of the A6. The M5 is a high performance version of the 5 series. The RS6 is high performance version of the S6. BMW doesn't make a high performance version of the M5, they seem to let other companies like dinan and alpina take care of that.

Lets just say hypothetically that the RS6 is 95 grand, the M5 is 80 grand, and the S6 is 70 grand. The M5 would be closer in price to the S6. The S6 has a 5.2 liter V10, bigger than the M5. It never made sense to me to compare a more expensive audi to a bmw. Just that it doesn't make sense to compare a more expensive ford to a bmw. That is just my opinion though.

Well BMW is playing around with turbos now. Perhaps we will see a RM5. A twin turbo M5.
 

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Hmm. No. A RM5?

You're probably right about a Twin Turbo V10 in the M5 soon. But it'll be still be called an M5 for it's only an updated engine.

Supposed to be out in a few years? Search the internet. Should be some spy "photos" of the TT M5.
 

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Hmm. No. A RM5?

You're probably right about a Twin Turbo V10 in the M5 soon. But it'll be still be called an M5 for it's only an updated engine.

Supposed to be out in a few years? Search the internet. Should be some spy "photos" of the TT M5.
I read once an interview with then BMW M boss heinz kamfball....oh my i butcherd his name....lol anyway he said the BMW M true to its spirit that there motors will always be normally aspirated as it showcases BMW philosophy of High RPM technology
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yea what makes BMW great is that they stick to their values. They might have a tough time holding certain titles though. Audi is twin turbo charging bigger engines to compete against BMWs smaller NA engines. Same with Mercedes. It actually shows just how good the engines are. I mean it is questionable with the new RS6 is going to be the M5 from a rolling start. It is possible that the RS6 would be about the same price as a dinan M5 with the 5.7 liter. It is basically still a BMW. I would like to see them stick the real F1 engine in. Isn't it putting out 900hp from 3 liters?
 

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Yea what makes BMW great is that they stick to their values. They might have a tough time holding certain titles though. Audi is twin turbo charging bigger engines to compete against BMWs smaller NA engines. Same with Mercedes. It actually shows just how good the engines are. I mean it is questionable with the new RS6 is going to be the M5 from a rolling start. It is possible that the RS6 would be about the same price as a dinan M5 with the 5.7 liter. It is basically still a BMW. I would like to see them stick the real F1 engine in. Isn't it putting out 900hp from 3 liters?
Some comments:
1. BMW does do special versions of ///Ms, such as the M3 CSL. Although a stripped lightweight M5 doesn't make as nuch sense, I do hope they do more limited production Ms in the future AND bring them to the US.
2. I'd not be surpised to see turbo'd Ms in the near future. There is too much competition to not go into that area. The 3.0 TT and supposedly the new 4.4 TT V8 solve much of the turbo's downsides. Whether they succesfully become M motors remains to be seen.
3. The 3.0 F1 motor would not be streetable. It has a 6000 RPM idle, a VERY narrow power peak, and would need rebuilt every 500 miles. I'm sure BMW is using a lot of F1 tech in their latest motors. The latest M3 GTR is an example. I believe it is close to 500hp from 4.0 liters and probably built to last the 24hr races. A derivative of it might appear in the next M3 CSL.
 

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I think its the usability of the RS6 engine that appeals to a lot of people. Horses for courses so to speak.

Some people love that torquey feelings from way down low the rev range that bolts you in the back in anygear at any revs.

Others like shifting their cars into the sweetspots of the engine to get optimum performance.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
M3

Well what I originally was getting at was whether there should be comparisons made to the RS6 at all.

Howbout the M3? the MSRP is 53 grand, the S4 is 48, and the RS6 is 66, not that you will any of them at that price at a dealer. The M3 is clearly closer in price to the S4. BMW could have done a lot to the M3 for an extra 13 grand.

It would be silly to compare a 335 to the 328 when talking about performance.
 

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Every English and German magazine review I have read compares the RS6 to the ///M5 and E63 AMG. The 'S' models from Audi are there to bridge the segment and time gap between the regular and high performance models. Audi actualy sell a lot of 'S' models so I see this differentiation continuing for some time to come.

I've spent half a day (wet) in the new RS6 Avant. A short summary would be that it's faster in a strait line but slower in the corners. It's easier to drive due to the amount and location of the torque. The additional grip in the rain and low temperatures is nice to have but you sacrifice some dynamic competence. It's better constructed in terms of materials and build.

BMW has ignored much of the original ///M philosophy in the past. I expect BMW will compete in the market with a mix of NA and forced induction cars. Expect to see more bi-turbo units, a key part of BMW's strategy to get down to the EU target of 130 g/km of CO2 by 2012.

I have already argued that the world of performance cars will change quickly. In the EU cars like the ///M5 and ///M3 will attract manufacturer fines of up to 25% of the sale price from 2012-2015. I can not see the manufacturers being able to absorb this. National EU governments are inflicting additional taxes of up to 50% of the sale price e.g. Netherlands. It's entirely possible that in the Netherlands an ///M5 will cost an additional 75% of it's sale price!
 

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i solved the problem : i just bought a rs6 with 600 HP and which has lost 350 Kgs.....it's faster than any M5, in straight lines and in corners.....everywhere....:blink:
 

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i solved the problem : i just bought a rs6 with 600 HP and which has lost 350 Kgs.....it's faster than any M5, in straight lines and in corners.....everywhere....:blink:
What about top speed? Can your RS6 go 204mph out of the box? what about the dinan stroker kit on the m5? more hp and better gearing... What about the dinan s3 e39? that would beat you too! Oh, I forgot about the bi-kompressor kit for the e60, can your car hit 225mph no problem? Didn't think so! :M5launch::M5rev::byee55amg
 

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the real top-speed is 311 km/h, measured at Nardo, but we don't drive on Nardo track everyday....:biggrinbounce:
for the top-speed, i have a GT2 which is much faster.......:1:
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Every English and German magazine review I have read compares the RS6 to the ///M5 and E63 AMG. The 'S' models from Audi are there to bridge the segment and time gap between the regular and high performance models. Audi actualy sell a lot of 'S' models so I see this differentiation continuing for some time to come.

Well the root of the arguement is that the rs6 was introduced in 2002, while we have had s6 longer than that, and the magazine must have compared it to the M5. Not to mention the price difference. You know an RS4 converible is 82 grand? The is unheard of for a peoples car.
 
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