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Discussion Starter #1
I have a friend who just got his hands on his 650bhp twin-turbo Lingenfelter ‘vette. We raced today. Of course he beat me but my M5 made a respectable run up to around 60MPH. From there, I may as well have put my car in reverse … his car just kept pulling, and pulling, and pulling, and pulling. It was like I wasn’t even moving. The M5 is a spectacular car but I’ve been in that ‘vette and the power is intoxicating. When you step on the gas, the car just “grunts” and gathers speed at a rate that keeps you staring at the speedo in disbelief. My god! That’s my general reaction. Some folks squeal like pigs. Others fall out of the car after he’s pulled over laughing their asses off over what they’ve just experienced.

I know I’m going to get flamed for saying this but I think the M5 is a tad underpowered. Sure, 400bhp is a lot of power but the M5 isn’t exactly light on its feet. Personally, I think 500bhp would be right for this car. And with Merc throwing more power at the E55, I bet the M5 will get a power boost within the next couple of years. I’ve pretty much made up my mind that I’m going to trade my M5 in for a new 911 Turbo but I have to wait another 9 months :(. But if BMW ever comes out with a 500bhp M5, I’ll be back because I do love this car.

-Roland.
 

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500 hp is easy to make with the M5 engine.

The lingenfelter TT is a very nice ride and is the fastest car Road and Track ever tested doing soemthing like 225mph.

The car is very fast, but its also REALLY expensive.

Like Shleby said, I bet you could give Dinan less money and have alot more hp.

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00' ///M5 Titanium Silver/Caramel
 

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Roland,

You say MB will be increasing the power of the E55. When? By how much? Do you recall your source for this information?

Richard
 

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Regarding the E55: there's always Renntech and Brabus.

Regarding M5 mods: the M5 is an expensive car to modify, 500HP isn't going to fall out of the car too easily.

Regarding M5 vs 911 Turbo, Lingenfelter 'Vette: if a two-seater meets your needs, great.
 

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I read Roland's comments, and others like them, and I must profess to be completely mystified by the fairly frequent inferences by some that somehow the M5 is not "all it can be" because it can't beat all comers in the standing quarter, or from 0 -60, or have a top speed approaching 200 mph. Maybe I'm missing something here but I have to ask, so what?

I'm not trying to start anything but frankly, such comments strike me as ridiculous. The M5 was never conceived as a street racer and if that's what some folks want, great, but they shouldn't be expecting at a 4000 lb sedan to be knocking off Vipers right and left. The M5 does virtually everything extremely well and carries 4 people in complete comfort. But to achieve such refinement in so many areas of driving performance necessarily imposes certain compromises. Why some insist on ignoring such realities baffles me.

I've had several reasonably fast cars myself and I understand very well the allure of going really fast. But to suggest that because the M5 isn't going to keep up with a Porsche Turbo or a modified Vette that it's somehow inferior is just plain silly, not to mention that it ignores the whole rationale behind the car in the first place.

Like I said, I really am not trying to start a debate but this insistence on raw speed as THE measure of a car's performance, especially a car as refined in so many ways as the M5, is an insult to the engineering genius behind it. As someone commented here before, a Mustang GT and $3500 worth of mods will get you a car that will "outperform" an M5. But does that make it a better car? Color me unpersuaded.

Burg Hound
 

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Originally posted by BurgHound:
I read Roland's comments, and others like them, and I must profess to be completely mystified by the fairly frequent inferences by some that somehow the M5 is not "all it can be" because it can't beat all comers in the standing quarter, or from 0 -60, or have a top speed approaching 200 mph. Maybe I'm missing something here but I have to ask, so what?

I'm not trying to start anything but frankly, such comments strike me as ridiculous. The M5 was never conceived as a street racer and if that's what some folks want, great, but they shouldn't be expecting at a 4000 lb sedan to be knocking off Vipers right and left. The M5 does virtually everything extremely well and carries 4 people in complete comfort. But to achieve such refinement in so many areas of driving performance necessarily imposes certain compromises. Why some insist on ignoring such realities baffles me.

I've had several reasonably fast cars myself and I understand very well the allure of going really fast. But to suggest that because the M5 isn't going to keep up with a Porsche Turbo or a modified Vette that it's somehow inferior is just plain silly, not to mention that it ignores the whole rationale behind the car in the first place.

Like I said, I really am not trying to start a debate but this insistence on raw speed as THE measure of a car's performance, especially a car as refined in so many ways as the M5, is an insult to the engineering genius behind it. As someone commented here before, a Mustang GT and $3500 worth of mods will get you a car that will "outperform" an M5. But does that make it a better car? Color me unpersuaded.

Burg Hound
Good points.

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00' ///M5 Titanium Silver/Caramel
 

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Imagine if you moved the firewall back, etc. and twin turbo'd the ///m5 a la lingenfelter / porsche turbo. IMAGINE. now that i would do it, but I bet it would give your Lingenfelter friend a good race.

In all honesty, I don't think that it'a a fair competition. Stock Vette, maybe. But bear in mind, THIS IS A SEDAN.

--Dan
 

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If you took even half the price difference between an M5 and the 911 turbo OR Ligenfelter 'vette, and modified your M5...you would have a sedan that would make uninitiated passengers soil their pants.
 

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The fastest sedan in the world for now, M heritage forever.

Alps
 

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Masterfully stated BurgHound!!

Thanks,

Jeff L
 

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Roland: if you gave Dinan as much money as your friend gave Lingenfelter, you could make a 500HP+ M5 a reality, no problem.

Steve

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'00 M5
'99 R1100S
'66 GT350H/Paxton
'85 911
 

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I was speaking to someone about turbo or supercharging the M5 and they made a very good point. With the extremely high 11.2:1 compression of the M5 engine (stock), in order to supercharge or turbo it, you would have to first lower the compression of the engine (thus ridding the engine of its great low end torque......since the supercharger does not get a chance to "spool" at low RPMs). In everyday driving situations, its the low end torque (OFF THE LINE) that makes ME feel like Im driving the GREATEST CAR EVER (i dont know about you guys?).
POINT IS, i think the M-engineers created a NEAR PERFECT engine because of the incredible power band for a 4K pound SEDAN (who cares if it has 400 or 600 hp)? YOU did say that the M5 kept up with THE VETTE to 60mph (that is damn impressive to me given the weight differences)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
There’s no need to be patronizing. I grew up building drag cars and I’m a mechanical engineer who spent the better part of his career designing and building jet engines. You’re preaching to the quire. If I wanted a fast 0-60 car, I would have purchased a Viper for the same amount of money. I didn’t because the M5 is a lot more car. My point is that I’d like to see a bit more power in the M5, not that I want to win drag races. Berg, you completely missed my point. Perhaps you’re missing the points others are trying to make as well … this may explain why you’re so mystified. Try not to assume that you’re smarter than everybody else. Of course I get it. Others probably do as well. For the record, I am not suggesting that an M5 should be able to keep up with a 911 Turbo or a Lingenfelter ‘vette. In fact, even with 500bhp, the M5 would be hard pressed to beat the 911 Turbo in straight-line acceleration and would have no chance in hell of beating a 650bhp ‘vette.

As for the Dinan modifications, I’m not a big fan of tuner cars … I like to keep my cars bone stock. Also, I don’t believe 500bhp is going to be easy to make with the M5 engine without significant engine modifications. For me, this would have to come from the factory. The M5 engine is jewel and I don’t want somebody tearing it apart to make the required modifications.

-Roland.
 

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Roland,

I still do not see your point. Is it that the M5 is underpowered in your esteemed opinion and therefore you are getting a 996TT? The rest of the information was just anecedotal I guess. I understood your post to mean the same thing as BurgHound and obviously so did quite a few others. So don't get all fussy because you are not communicating clearly.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yawn. Ok. I'll S P E L L it out for you then. I would like to see the M5 have more power. It doesn’t and therefore I am unsatisfied. Therefore, I am going to trade my M5 in for a 911 Turbo once my build becomes available. If the M5 had more power, I would be satisfied and would not have to trade it in for a 911 Turbo. Nowhere did I ever state that I think an M5 should be able to outperform a 911 Turbo or a modified ‘vette. As Burg Hound points out, this is ridiculous and is not the point of the car. To assume that others do not understand this simple point is arrogant, especially when you consider you’re in the company of people who have the means to own this car.

There are several factors a person must consider when purchasing a car. Each person will weigh these factors differently. If this were not the case, everybody would drive the same type of car. For me, it is not strictly a matter of performance. No way in hell would I want to own an Evo Extreme even though it outperforms the M5 by a wide margin and keeps pace with the 911 Turbo. In my esteemed opinion, the car is a **** box. I love power but not at the cost of comfort, luxury, and refinement. I was torn between the M5 and Viper. The M5 has great power, comfort, luxury, and refinement. The Viper is visceral, has more power, no comfort, no luxury, and no refinement. The decision was hard for me because the added power and visceral nature of the Viper almost perfectly offset the greater comfort, greater luxury, and greater refinement of the M5. In the end, I chose the M5 and I have no regrets; nor do I expect that I can beat a Viper with my M5. For me, the 911 Turbo tips the scale in the other direction. Not quite the level of comfort, luxury, and refinement of an M5 but much more so than a Viper. Given that the 911 Turbo outperforms a Viper without all of its downsides, I will trade my M5 in for a 911 Turbo. However, if the M5 were to have 500bhp, it would probably tip the scale back to the M5 for me even though I wouldn’t expect it to beat a 911 Turbo. So you see, your highness, I do get it. For me, 400bhp M5 < 911 Turbo < 500bhp M5 even though 911 Turbo > 500bhp M5 from a performance standpoint.

Is far as my encounter with a Lingenfelter ‘vette is concerned, I was quite pleased with the performance of the M5. As I pointed out, I didn’t expect to win and the performance was respectable up to around 60MPH. After all, the power/weight for the ‘vette is 0.2bhp/lb vs. 0.1bhp/lb for the M5. Clearly, I expected to get toasted and I did, but not so much that I was embarrassed. Of course, the only reason I didn’t get killed from 0-60MPH was because both cars are traction limited coming off the line. Anyway, it was just intended to be a funny story to share with some automobile enthusiasts … not that I was pissed off I lost to a 650bhp ‘vette.
 

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People! Pour yourself your favorite beverage. Stroll out to the garage. Run your fingers over the M5's hood and don't stop till you get to the rear badge. Smile. Go back inside and dream of large-breasted women.

Tate

P.S. - If that last sentence offended anyone, I apologize.
 

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Is it OK if we dream about oversize air intakes, bellowing exhaust, huge smoking tires, and lateral G forces?

This evo extreme "**** box" Roland talks about sounds like a cool car. Anyone know a site on the web I could find more info on it?
 
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