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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Interesting preview article, no full test yet. Some interesting observations: They claimed the engine defined the E39 M5, not the rest of the car. Given the specs they expected the defining E60 moment to be the same with the launch control and running to red line in the 7 SMG gears. "Which is what happened" but they claim the handling is so sharp and precise, that is what defines the car.
They claim there is good torque down low but the real engine experience is rocketing toward redline. They like the SMG claiming it is the best SMG and 2nd only to Audi's DSG in smoothness (but a lot harsher than the auto in the E55). They really like the HUD and M button on the wheel. The best part is the handling "quick, accurate, and no understeer"! "The handling is so stable you don't need DSC for corrections but the rush is staying within DSC limits and powering out of a turn" About the E55? "After such a virtuoso M5 performance, the E55 struggles" (in handling). The steering saps confidence and upsets the car" (E55). They love its engine but claim you can't use the power coming out of a turn due to ESP cutting in so much. They like the E55 and prefer its interior saying the M5 seems plain sparse despite all the leather. They conclude "pushing the M5 to its limits is what puts it ahead of the E55 not because of the drivetain but because of what the M5 lets you do".

"Few sedans eat road like the M5 and the yowling 10 cylinder snarl as you sear towards max revs is an experience that etches itself deep in your memory".

BTW, they use an estimated 0-60 of 4.5 compared to the E55s 4.2 and have it at a 12.6 1/4 mile vs a 12.4 from the Benz.
 

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I find MT's actual test numbers are always at the most optimistic end of the spectrum. I am sure the E55, while maybe capable of doing that 0-60 time, is not going to typically do it. How difficult will it be to launch the M5? Just dial up LC and let 'er rip. And that will be easily repeated. So maybe its like 4.5 seconds, but repeatable every time. I wonder how they are launching the automatic E55?
 

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"The engine defined the E39 M5 and the red line running with 7 gears it was defines the E60 M5." I find that interesting and I think the E60 M5 will be a more complete package.
 

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MEnthusiast said:
I wonder how they are launching the automatic E55?
I'm sure they power-brake launch it. Automatics are very easy and repeatable to launch and probably only slightly more difficult than
the one-button and binary LC.

I still wonder about the LC and how it is programmed. Is the programming static where the amount of throttle and clutch slip is a constant regardless of circumstance, or is it dynamic where it uses something analogous to DSC and ABS technology – it continuously monitors the speed on both sides of the clutch and of the front tires, correlates them, analyses the result, and makes real-time adjustments to the throttle and clutch take-up to optimize power and traction? You need these three inputs to gauge the amount of clutch slip and wheel spin. A static program will work well with the conditions (surface, temp, tire condition, etc.) for which it was programmed, but will do increasingly less well as conditions diverge. In contrast, a fully dynamic program should be able to optimize itself through a wide range of conditions where you still get variable results, but always optimal for the situation.

Gustav, have your conversations with BMW techs given you any insight here?

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #6
On the LC, it has to be dynamic. There are too many variables for a static program. It would do nothing but spin tires on a less sticky surface. Videos seem to show its dynamic.

On the article, I'm suprised M/T said the E39 M5 was one dimensional. Previous tests praised how it did everything well. If the new M5 is that much better all-around, WOW, I'll want one for sure.
 

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Richard in NC said:
On the LC, it has to be dynamic. There are too many variables for a static program. It would do nothing but spin tires on a less sticky surface. Videos seem to show its dynamic.
I guess the question is then how dynamic, optimized and aggressive it is. LC can theoretically be better than the best pro driver on his best day every time. This clearly was not the case with the M3 SMG; not even close.

On the article, I'm suprised M/T said the E39 M5 was one dimensional. Previous tests praised how it did everything well. If the new M5 is that much better all-around, WOW, I'll want one for sure.
It looks like the bar has been raised significantly, and the E39 looks one dimensional by this new standard.

Tom
 

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In the new M5 you wil get an automatic gearbox mode, whicj is more than you got in the E39.

Automatic gearbox – one that can hold its own even on the race track.

Five of the eleven gear shift options of the Drivelogic function are available in the so-called automated D mode. If this mode is activated, gears are changed automatically, depending on the driving program selected, the driving situation, the speed and the position of the accelerator pedal. With the D1 driving program selected, for example, the gearbox sets off in second gear and ensures particularly delicate and smooth engagement of the clutch, this being of great help in wintry conditions.

Although having opted for automatic gearchanging, the driver can influence the process by, for example, releasing the accelerator pedal slowly, thus determining, also in D mode, the time when the gearbox shifts up. In turn, by depressing the accelerator pedal all the way down to the floor, he is able to effect fast downchanges. In S as well as in D mode, the gearbox automatically shifts down to the first gear as soon as the car is slowed to a halt. All the driver has to do to set the car in motion again is to step on the gas pedal.
 

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Gustav, this is a description of it being dynamic with respect to driver inputs, but says nothing about taking, analyzing and optimizing the results - real-time feedback from clutch slip and wheel spin - for purposes of LC programming and launch maximization across virtually any circumstance.

Tom
 

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Correct, I was just underlining that it has an "automatic gearbox" as well. I do not have any more info on the LC, if I had I should have written it down.
 

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bernhtp said:
Gustav, this is a description of it being dynamic with respect to driver inputs, but says nothing about taking, analyzing and optimizing the results - real-time feedback from clutch slip and wheel spin - for purposes of LC programming and launch maximization across virtually any circumstance.

Tom
My experience with the E46 would indicate that its an open loop system. So far I have not heard anything to indicate they changed this on the E60.
 

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I actually spent an entire 30 mins reading the article not once but twice last night at my local Barnes and Noble. While it seems that the overall driving experience is better than the of the E39 (they said it...not me) and the numbers are better, i still cant get over the slab-siddedness of the e60. I prefer the width of the E55 and the entire external design of the E55 to that over the m5. I can however say that the front is growing on me...but not enough. Even though MT made mention of the interior and how its vastly improved over that of the regular 5 series, it still bothers me.

It seems as if the new m5 is slowly becomming the m5 to have...for some.
 

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RennSportSC'dKellenersM5 said:
It seems as if the new m5 is slowly becomming the m5 to have...for some.
For those that primarlly value performance, it is the M5 to have :)
 

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RennSportSC'dKellenersM5 said:
I actually spent an entire 30 mins reading the article not once but twice last night at my local Barnes and Noble. While it seems that the overall driving experience is better than the of the E39 (they said it...not me) and the numbers are better, i still cant get over the slab-siddedness of the e60. I prefer the width of the E55 and the entire external design of the E55 to that over the m5. I can however say that the front is growing on me...but not enough. Even though MT made mention of the interior and how its vastly improved over that of the regular 5 series, it still bothers me.

It seems as if the new m5 is slowly becomming the m5 to have...for all.
;)
 

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Sold my 2000 E39 and bought an E55. Still have my E60 on order (#1 on list at my dealer). Impressions:

1. The E55 engine is incredible. If only it had a manual!
2. Car is beautiful. Blows away the E60 on appearance.
3. Has Dynamic Seats and panorimic roof. Roof is really cool, seats are fun but a little of a gimic.
4. Car is a wonderful daily driver, but the handling is not as crisp as I'm used to.
5. Still having problems getting over the look on the new 5 series. For now I'm planning on keeping the Merck. and taking our my manly aggressions on my '67 427 vette!
 

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SteveM5NC said:
Sold my 2000 E39 and bought an E55. Still have my E60 on order (#1 on list at my dealer). Impressions:
5 out of 5 points I agree. Still, of the two, I'll go for the M5 as it will be THE driver's super-saloon overall. The E55 (I've only test driven it in the city) feels very "torquey" in city driving.
 

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Well to answer your question, Gustav, the MotorTrend acrticle DID say the e39 was all about the engine, and the E60 was about both the engine and the chassis, and i quote:

And if a 400-horsepower V-8 defined the old M5, then the new one, blessed with two more cylinders and another 100 well-bred ponies, was always going to be an engine car, too, yes?

Well, no, actually. The new M5's engine is, we're happy to report, the spectacular piece its specs would suggest. The sequential M gearbox aids and abets it by shifting cogs as promplty as any of its type. But the new M5 isn't just a powertrain car. It's a chassis car. The first full-effort curve---the moment when you load up the steering and feel the whole machine carve through the bend like a surgeon's knife, perfectly in tune with your will---that's the defining M5 moment.
 

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A good comparison is to think of the E55 as being most comfortable on the Autobahns where it's a natural mile muncher. The M5 is much better on the twisties where the real thrill of driving is to be found. If you won't venture off the superfast highways you're better off in an E55, but if you love to DRIVE then the only choice is the M5.
 

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