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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In a recent BBC Top Gear segment Clarkson takes a lap around the Nurburgring with Sabine, interviewing her while she takes the E39 M5 Ringtaxi through the turns. Clarkson talkes to her about how she managed the fastest Nurburgring lap time on record at the tender age of 18. She was driving some sort of Cosworth race car or something. Apparently her Dad was a racer, took her to the track at an early age, etc.,etc. She also mentioned that her record time is achieved (routinely?) by the E39 M5 Ringtaxi.

I love Sabine and I think she's fantastic. But, however magnificent a driver she is, it's still a little hard for me to accept that she beat Stefan Roser's time around the ring, making her the track record holder. I saw the RUF video 6 or 7 years ago and the images of Stefan taking that "Yellowbird" RUF Turbo around the ring are still fresh in my mind. He was truly awsome in that car. I know you guys must have seen that video. What do you guys think?

And what exactly is the "track record"? I mean does it include all runs in all types of cars? Was it an old record that has since been broken? For Sabine to have the "track record" does that mean she has beaten Schumacher's times? Now, Sabine's E39 M5 Ringtaxi might be a **** fast car, with a great driver at the wheel, but I'm pretty sure it couldn't come anywhere near Shumacher in his F1 Ferrari around the Ring.

Can anybody shed some light on this?
 

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Mike0804 said:
And what exactly is the "track record"? I mean does it include all runs in all types of cars? Was it an old record that has since been broken? For Sabine to have the "track record" does that mean she has beaten Schumacher's times? Now, Sabine's E39 M5 Ringtaxi might be a **** fast car, with a great driver at the wheel, but I'm pretty sure it couldn't come anywhere near Shumacher in his F1 Ferrari around the Ring.

Can anybody shed some light on this?
a modern F1 car could never run the Nordschliefe so you could never compare between the different tracks run, but in terms of average speed yes i THINK Schumacher does hold that record
 

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CLK-GTR said:
a modern F1 car could never run the Nordschliefe so you could never compare between the different tracks run, but in terms of average speed yes i THINK Schumacher does hold that record
Why couldn't a modern F1 car run the Nordschleife? Maybe not in their standard spec that they are raced in 16+ times a season. But a modern F1 car could easily be setup suspension-wise and engine-wise to run the Nordschleife. Though I doubt the times would be drastically different than the last time F1 cars ran the Nordschleife.
 

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kensei said:
Why couldn't a modern F1 car run the Nordschleife? Maybe not in their standard spec that they are raced in 16+ times a season. But a modern F1 car could easily be setup suspension-wise and engine-wise to run the Nordschleife. Though I doubt the times would be drastically different than the last time F1 cars ran the Nordschleife.
its not a case of setup etc.. its about the safety.. F1 havent been to the nordschleife after Niki Lauda almost killed himself in a crash. in those days the F1 cars would jump in some parts of the ring.. a modern F1 would be of course faster than anything on the track, but the thing is they wont drive because the risk is so high, and nowadays F1 is more concerned about safety than ever. and I personally havent seen a fast time by Schumacher on the Ring... only on the modern short F1 ring..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
CLK-GTR said:
the outright lap record is 6:11 by Stefan Bellof in a 956 in 1983
Very interesting. What is your source? I don't doubt what you are saying, I just want to know where this information is collected. Also, it's interesting that Bellof's record has endured 22 years of advancement in technology.

The lap record quoted by Sabine in the Clarkson interview was over 8 minutes. Clearly there are different records for different car classes, which makes sense.
 

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Mike0804 said:
Very interesting. What is your source? I don't doubt what you are saying, I just want to know where this information is collected. Also, it's interesting that Bellof's record has endured 22 years of advancement in technology.

The lap record quoted by Sabine in the Clarkson interview was over 8 minutes. Clearly there are different records for different car classes, which makes sense.
its a widely acknowledged time, the best site i think is nurburgring.de, that also has a list of laptimes for various cars
 

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Taipan said:
its not a case of setup etc.. its about the safety.. F1 havent been to the nordschleife after Niki Lauda almost killed himself in a crash. in those days the F1 cars would jump in some parts of the ring.. a modern F1 would be of course faster than anything on the track, but the thing is they wont drive because the risk is so high, and nowadays F1 is more concerned about safety than ever. and I personally havent seen a fast time by Schumacher on the Ring... only on the modern short F1 ring..
I realize there are saftey issues, and that is one of the main reasons F1 left the Nordschelife all those years ago.

However I was commenting on that it "IS" possible to run a modern F1 car on the Nordschleife. Now finding a driver (and team) to do it on the other hand...
 

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I think Walter Rohrl is still the "King of the 'Ring"

I seriously doubt Sabine could beat him, even if he was driving a Cayenne Turbo against her M5.
 

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kensei said:
I realize there are saftey issues, and that is one of the main reasons F1 left the Nordschelife all those years ago.

However I was commenting on that it "IS" possible to run a modern F1 car on the Nordschleife. Now finding a driver (and team) to do it on the other hand...
I really dont know, setting the suspension up for the 'ring would be such a pain i dont know if they could ever get it right. The car just isnt designed for a track like that, so many rough surfaces, dips, bumps and cambers.
 

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I'm sure they could managed it. Take a look at what Ferrari does with it's older F1 cars at a track like Laguna Seca during the Monterey Historic Automobile Races. The Corckscrew there isn't yur normal F1 type terrain. granted that is only one corner on a small track compare to the Nordschleife.

I would think suspension would me the easy part of setting up a modrn F1 car for the Nordschleife. Wouldn't remapping the engine to not blow on all the ups and downs be a tougher issue? Surely revving the engine 18,000rpm + going into Kottenborn and hitting that slight rise and spiking the engine higher would not be good for it, even if the driver lifted at that point. The ups and downs can NOT be good for sensative F1 engines and their mechanical parts.

Eau Rouge at Spa is another example. You always hear about the teams worried about their engines there at the beginning of race weekends.
 

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The ferrari enzo cant drive the carousel due to its low ride height, granted thats one corner, but if any of you have ever walked, driven or cycled a circuit that F1 run on you'll realise that bumps, cambers and gradients are at a serious minimum. Spa as exceptional, and the gradients there are huge especially at eurouge, but it isnt bumpy. And low ride heights + bumps are the real killer in F1 (sadly literally in Senna's case).
The changes in suspension geometry needed to raise the ride heights enough for an F1 car to run at the 'ring once again would be monumental.
The engine IMO is insignificant, they are highly complex dry sump units, handling lateral and longditudinal accelerations into many G's. These units would have no problems. The prolonged max revs full load of the top speed for quite some time on the main straight would probably neccesitate the engines to run at a lower max RPM, but engine manufacturers change settings like this quite commonly through the season.

As has already been stated, the main killer is the distinct lack of any run off space, you may say that monaco also has no run off, but the speeds are comparitively low IMO.

There's no doubting seeing a modern day F1 car lap the nordschliefe would be incredible, but it aint gunna happen (at 10/10ths anyway)
 

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Bit of a late entry to this post, but just read it. I remember the production car record is held by a Radical - 7:19...most entertaining car...

http://www.radicalsportscars.com/news_folder/nordchliefe/index.php

I guess production car is technically true although you would do well to take four people and your luggage on a long weekend like you could in an M5 :D
 

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A modern F1 car cannot run the Ring because of ground clearance. When Heidfeld did it he had to run round the top of the karrussel. I talked to him about it and he still rates the Ring at the top of his experience.
Sabine is a simply amazing driver, but she rates Rohrl and Hans Stuck as her heroes.
 

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I heard BMW Sauber actually talked about redoing the ring with less restrictions on the car, I'm pretty sure almost any driver would do this in a F1. BMW Sauber said that they believe if they ran the ring full-out they would be very close to 5 minutes.
 
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