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Discussion Starter #1
A few of you had asked me about this so figured I'd post the info for all of you. If you're not interested, then please just ignore the post so others can benefit from it. It's the recent Manheim wholesale auction results for M5's (not updated for this week's results yet). Take it for what it is -- auction vehicles. I'm personally looking for a CPO '01-'03 M5 so always keep tuned to what's going on with the wholesale market. Not in a terrible rush to get one since I have a '00 540i/6 but definitely not the M5 beast of course.

If you're in the market then please let me know if these posts would be helpful in the future and I'll try to do it on a weekly basis. I'm in the market so have a vested interest as well. A few quality M5 comes up at auction (e.g. fresh off BMW lease or else a luxury dealer that recently took in the M5 on a trade and wants to make a quick turnaround at the auction). Otherwise, it's a crapshoot. I know since I was a BMW wholesaler / broker for 6+ years -- but recently decided to put my efforts into a different business (not auto related). So, not trying to earn anyone's business here.

I know other wholesalers/brokers/dealers might get pi$$ed off at me for doing this but I'm really not trying to hurt their business. Like I've seen in a few past posts here, it would be nice to have complete facts on a M5 I'm thinking about buying but I know too well from experience that it's tough to come by. Too bad that's the nature of the highline business but hopefully you find your share of decent folks out there. Best of luck.

Here you go,
Example: 08/26/04 CHICAGO Lease $54,000 13,723 Above BLUE 8G M Yes
* 08/26/04 = Auction Sale Date
* CHICAGO = Auction Location
* Lease = Auction Type (Lease or Regular)
* $54,000 = Actual Sale Price
* 13,723 = Miles
* Above = Wholesale Price Grade
* BLUE = Color
* 8G = 8 Cylinder Gas
* 6 = 6-Speed Manual Transmission
* M = Manual Transmission
* A = Automatic Transmission
* CV = Convertible (Vert)
* Yes/No = In Price Sample Or Not (Don't worry about this, used for MMR)

***** 2003 M5 *****
10/28/04 HOBBY Regular $53,500 19,073 Above SILVER 8G 6 No
09/29/04 W PALM Lease $56,800 18,576 Above DK BLUE 8G 6 Yes
08/26/04 CHICAGO Lease $54,000 13,723 Above BLUE 8G M Yes
08/26/04 MANHEIM Regular $57,500 24,388 Above SILVER 8G No
08/25/04 ATLANTA Factory $58,000 3,792 Above CARBON 8G 6 Yes
08/25/04 KC Lease $58,000 10,598 Above BLACK 8G 6 Yes

***** 2002 M5 *****
10/27/04 BAY CITI Lease $39,500 50,789 Below TITNSLVR 8G 6 No
10/22/04 NEVADA Lease $44,000 43,181 Below GREY 8G 6 No
10/14/04 RIVRSIDE Lease $51,750 32,215 Avg IMOLARED 8G 6 Yes
10/13/04 MILWAUKE Lease $49,500 18,785 Avg SCHWARZ 8G 6 Yes
10/08/04 MANHEIM Regular $46,800 29,914 Avg GRAY 8G 6 Yes
10/06/04 SEATTLE Lease $49,250 19,963 Avg CARBONSC 8G A Yes
10/05/04 RIVRSIDE Regular $45,000 42,233 Below SILVER 8G M No

***** 2001 M5 *****
10/21/04 ATLANTA Lease $31,000 54,739 Below BLACK 8G 6 No
10/20/04 ATLANTA Lease $39,800 42,159 Avg WHITE 6G 6 Yes
10/12/04 FAAO Lease $39,000 22,742 Avg BLUE 6G 6 Yes
10/07/04 MANHEIM Regular $45,100 17,537 Above TIT SIL 6G A Yes
10/07/04 MANHEIM Lease $40,500 33,316 Avg OXFRDGRN 8G 6 Yes
09/29/04 DALLAS Regular $35,700 59,284 Below SILVER 6G 6 No

***** 2000 M5 *****
10/13/04 MILWAUKE Lease $40,500 28,441 Avg SCHWARZ 6G 5 Yes
09/23/04 CINCINNA Regular $38,500 46,891 Avg Silver 6G Yes
09/16/04 RIVRSIDE Regular $34,100 42,595 Below DBLUE 6G M Yes
09/09/04 CARIB Regular $43,500 40,522 Avg BLUE 8G 6 Yes
09/09/04 MANHEIM Lease $34,000 35,279 Below JETBLK 6G 6 Yes
09/01/04 BUTLER Regular $38,500 51,805 Avg 51805 6G A Yes
 

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MPowerChicago said:
A few of you had asked me about this so figured I'd post the info for all of you. ...If you're in the market then please let me know if these posts would be helpful in the future and I'll try to do it on a weekly basis.
Waaayyyy Cool, MPowerChicago! Thanks for sharing.

When I was buying my '00 off lease from BMWFS, I asked for MMR data from boardmembers, since BMWFS often uses that information to offer potentially discounted buyouts in the last 30 days of a lease.

Unfortunately for me, the MMR figure for my car at the time was right where the contracted residual was, so no gain for me.

That's incredibly useful information for anyone who's REALLY interested in what the M5 market is doing. Again, thanks for posting!

And welcome to the 'board!

-Dave
 

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Hey, MPower, thanks!

What does this information mean to the average buyer? I assume these prices are for dealers who then mark them up; is this correct? I also assume that these prices do not reflect any CPO/extended warranty - also true?

Kevin
 

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KevinM said:
Hey, MPower, thanks!

What does this information mean to the average buyer? I assume these prices are for dealers who then mark them up; is this correct? I also assume that these prices do not reflect any CPO/extended warranty - also true?

Kevin
These represent *A* data point.

Here is how the 'public' might use these:

The wholesale price means the TRADE IN value is LOWER than these numbers. If you are looking to trade in your M, the dealer will know these numbers and will not give you more than these prices (generally- unless you are screwed on the new car).

If you know what these values are, you can make the dealer aware that you know- they will try to use the hopelessly wrong KBB or edmunds... if they know you know what the real values are, you can work that.

My personal belief is that there are NOT many dealers buying 2003Ms to sell on speculation- they may take in Ms on trades and make good money there, but there isn't much room for a profit on an auction sale given the market right now. Also, keep in mind that these prices are falling month to month. A dealer that buys a 2003M at 58k and figures he will put 3k into the CPO and sell it for 68 is going to be sorry. 62 if he is lucky this winter. When you figure the carry cost is 1% per month... it is tight.

A cpo costs them $1295 to BMW *PLUS* anything they need to do to pass the inspection. A set of tires will add $1000. If the brakes are under 50% that costs big- but it is NOT covered by maintenance... perhaps this explains the significant drop between 2002 and 2003s?

If nothing else, information can tell you when a deal is good or bad, or where the market is going...

My 2 cents.

Ard
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Teutonaddict (Dave),
Appreciate the kind welcome as well as the insight into your lease buyout, thanks.

KevinM,
If you haven't already, please take a look at ard's response above. Pretty much in line with what I was going to elaborate on.

PCUT,
I agree, why not have full information. We do in other facets of our lives. For example, when considering a house we expect comparables as well as market analysis. Of course M5 <> house but I still want full disclosure on the '01-'03 M5's I'm hunting for but 99% of the times I'm the one that has to seek it out. That's fine, buyer beware...

ard,
Great response and others in the market should do a quick search on your posts as you were getting your '03 beast. We've talked offline and you know I appreciate your efforts and look forward to further insight you may have.

I agree with ard's point, these wholesale prices tell you "where the market is going". But don't forget that these only represent actual sales. There are many many other M5's that don't sell at the auction for various reasons (e.g. condition issues, reserve too high, etc.). And just because a certain dealer or wholesaler paid a certain price at the auction doesn't mean that it was a good value at that time. And yes, as you will see in the weeks or months to come, these prices will fluctuate unlike the prices generally in Cars.com, AutoTrader.com, etc. which are asking prices anyway.

I have a few more points to add but will put them in my next weekly auction price posting. BTW, if you're curious to see what's coming up at the auction in terms of M5's, here you go. It's sorted by mileage ascending.

18 Vehicles Found
Year Make/Model Mileage Color Location Inventory
View 2000 BMW M5 0 WHITE Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE9349YBZ94050 Lane: 15 Run: 0721
View 2003 BMW M5 4,631 WHITE/BLK Florida A.A. of Orlando Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE93493CF91997 Lane: 16 Run: 0097
View 2003 BMW M5 5,741 BLUE Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE93493CF93734 Lane: 28 Run: 0193
View 2002 BMW M5 12,150 SILVER/BLK Riverside A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE93402CF90381 Lane: 67 Run: 0008
View 2002 BMW M5 13,776 BLACK Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE93412CF91913 Lane: 29 Run: 0123
View 2001 BMW M5 19,037 GRAY Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE93451BZ99414 Lane: 05 Run: 0012
View 2003 BMW M5 20,588 BLUE/TAN Florida A.A. of Orlando Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE93443CF92913 Lane: 19 Run: 0126
View 2002 BMW M5 25,761 BLUE Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE93452CF91218 Lane: 29 Run: 0098
View 2002 BMW M5 30,621 RED/BLK Florida A.A. of Orlando Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE93412BZ99847 Lane: 20 Run: 0055
View 2000 BMW M5 41,106 DK/BLUE Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE9345YBZ97091 Lane: 06 Run: 0035
View 2001 BMW M5 41,233 SILVER Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE934X1BZ98324 Lane: 29 Run: 0014
View 2002 BMW M5 44,265 BLUE Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE93402CF91806 Lane: 03 Run: 0103
View 2001 BMW M5 47,299 GREY Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE934X1BZ98663 Lane: 11 Run: 0194
View 2000 BMW M5 52,179 BLACK Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE9349YBZ97210 Lane: 07 Run: 0165
View 2000 BMW M5 57,356 SILVER Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE9345YBZ95230 Lane: 05 Run: 0149
View 2000 BMW M5 61,270 BLUE/BLK Florida A.A. of Orlando Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE934XYBZ95742 Lane: 21 Run: 0135
View 2000 BMW M5 64,575 SILVER/BLK Florida A.A. of Orlando Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE9342YBZ94424 Lane: 19 Run: 0092
View 2001 BMW M5 103,736 BLACK Manheim A.A. Encore Sales
VIN: WBSDE93481BZ97639 Lane: 10 Run: 0171

Thanks,
Sam
 

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Great info, thanks for sharing!
 

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I am definitely in the market and I have actually been to the auction in Riverside. Just didn't know they actually sold M5s. Please post more. Thanks.
 

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Great Job! Keep it coming MPowerChicago!

<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_479248", true); </SCRIPT>I will be in the market next year for a 2001-2002 model.

Rich
911 3.6 Turbo
97 M3
 

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Just a note on the 2003 CF93734:

A response I received:

We own it for 57,750 and will sell for 58,750. Otherwise we have a truck coming tonight and plan on taking it to auction. Let me know if you want to see it:

VIN: WBSDE93493CF93734

I am happy to fax a BMW build sheet to you as well. Let me know asap if the price point interests you and I will hold the car here for you to see.

Sincerely,

BMW of Arlington Internet Sales

-----Original Message-----
From: Ard
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 1:12 PM
To: BMW of Arlington
Subject: RE: M5



Send me the VIN when you can- thx



-----Original Message-----
From: BMW of Arlington ([mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 11:02 AM
To: 'Ard'
Subject: RE: M5

A,

This was actually a local trade-in at our Audi store.....they bought an A8 from us and traded the M5. It looks as if it was just a poor paint job......not really any structural damage. We just don't want the hassle even though it would qualify for certification because it is an M5. I will get back to you on price......it'll be $1000 over trade-in value and that will include a full detail.

Sincerely,

BMW of Arlington Internet Sales



THERE MIGHT BE A REASON THESE CARS ARE SUCH GOOD DEALS... Caveat emptor.

Edit: Just to add- even if a car has a repainted door or a quarter, stuff happens- you just need to know exactly what DID happen. This one the salesman admitted a poor paint job- to the extent they wouldn't sell it (and likely the cost to fix made the ultimate deal unprofitable). Sounds like they will not clear their 57k
 

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Great info, Thanks! I'm looking to buy between now and May and having data on the ever changing market is a big help!

:cheers:

I appreciate your time!
 

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Great information... thank you!

Given your access to that info, I'm hoping you can answer a couple questions about the auction processs.

I have a friend who may make it possible for me to purchase at auction. How does the evaluation work? Obviously, you wouldn't get a chance to show the car to your mechanic, so how does one know if the car has been beaten on? Is there detailed reference made to the condition of the car, or do you have to make do with a visual inspection?

Also, if I were able to buy a car at auction, do you know if it would be possible to purchase CPO coverage (or extended warranty from BMW) after the fact?

Thanks for any insight you may have!
 

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E46 in Philly said:
Great information... thank you!

Given your access to that info, I'm hoping you can answer a couple questions about the auction processs.

I have a friend who may make it possible for me to purchase at auction. How does the evaluation work? Obviously, you wouldn't get a chance to show the car to your mechanic, so how does one know if the car has been beaten on? Is there detailed reference made to the condition of the car, or do you have to make do with a visual inspection?

Also, if I were able to buy a car at auction, do you know if it would be possible to purchase CPO coverage (or extended warranty from BMW) after the fact?

Thanks for any insight you may have!
Adding a cpo to your car is a crap shoot. Some dealers will do this for existing customers (how they get around BMW is a mystery to me). Most will NOT unless there is a real transaction. (I approached 5 or 6 with a deal in which I (the buyer) and the seller would do it in one sitting. They buy the car from the seller, cpo it, sell it to me. They make $500 for their trouble. Two offered to do it- the one I used had serviced the car and actually offered me copies of all service records- ) The other problem with this is that a cpo car requires certain tire and brake levels- if these are not met the cost can be much higher.

Regarding Mannheim inspections: Near as I can tell, you can do a physical inspection, but your mechanic needs to go there and do it. They also 'grade' the car, but no guarantees.

And even if your mechanic takes the car for a day- how will he know if the car has been beaten on? (I suppose a major beating would be apparent..)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
TCM, txbeast, lestat832 & porsche965,
Thanks for taking the time to provide the feedback. Either way would have been fine, positive or negative, but glad to hear that these will be helpful. Will try to provide an update next week for this week's results on the M5's.

ard,
"THERE MIGHT BE A REASON THESE CARS ARE SUCH GOOD DEALS... Caveat emptor."
-- I agree with your statement. When I can I'll post information on the Pre-Sale Condition Report that provides a good start when I was in the business. But nothing takes place of good 'ole research which means e-mails, phone calls, etc. to really know the history of the M5. Then ultimately the physical inspection or from someone you really trust is the deciding factor. Yes, these prices I'm providing are really one-dimensional so please be aware of that. But if you see your VIN on a Post-Sale then let us know so we can find out what's being tracked.

E46 in Philly,
"I have a friend who may make it possible for me to purchase at auction. How does the evaluation work? Obviously, you wouldn't get a chance to show the car to your mechanic, so how does one know if the car has been beaten on? Is there detailed reference made to the condition of the car, or do you have to make do with a visual inspection?"
-- When I was doing it, it all started with the initial Condition Report that Manheim provides. It's available online for dealers about a week ahead of the simulcat. I'm in Chicago so I used to concentrate on the monthly BMW Financial Lease Auction. From there I do the Carfax or had the client interested in the M5 do it and let me know if they wanted to pursue it. From there it was a matter of making all of the calls to get the full service history when possible. From there it was finding out who were the owners before and talking to them to get more insight, again whenever feasible. Correct, have to rely on past information since can't take it to the mechanic onces it's at the auction. Can't really know for sure it's been beaten on just like a private party sale. But with the private party sale you have more assurance in most cases and you can test drive it to your hearts content. At the auction, insurance restrictions generally prohibit testing the vehicle but I usually did it quietly when I could. Sometimes the car would be in between 2 others so couldn't even test drive it. Could only start it up and perform as many tests while stationary.
"Also, if I were able to buy a car at auction, do you know if it would be possible to purchase CPO coverage (or extended warranty from BMW) after the fact?"
-- Check out ard's posts on this, very helpful. I've seen some M5's at the auction already CPO. Otherwise, only authorized BMW dealers can provide CPO M5's. Not likely they'll be too helpful on this since it cuts into their profit but you can try. Extended warranty is a different matter. You should have better luck with this but not the same as CPO. Search the archives here or post any other questions you may have. One of us here should be able to help out!

Best of luck all,
Sam
 

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Thank you so much for the information!! Never dealt with this, so have a couple questions for ya..

Curious whether these listings state what dealership is listing the cars for sale, perhaps to have an opportunity to make an offer before the car hits the auction block? Or does one go directly to BMW to get an idea as to what the history of the vehicle entails?

thank you much!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
JWalker,

You're very welcome. Also, wanted to get back to you on your questions:

1. Curious whether these listings state what dealership is listing the cars?
Well, that would really circumvent the auction process for Manheim which is the auction house. It cuts into their auction fees since both the buyer & seller pays auction fees based on the type of sale and price of the vehicle. So, Manheim does not publish that information as far as I know. There's also the bid reserve amount that is kept confidential, again to ensure the auction process is not hampered. With that said, I pretty much knew which highline BMW's were being sold by what dealership since I was in the business of knowing that information. Bottom line in the business was relationships, relationships, relationships. Sort of I scratch your back and someday you'll scratch mine. Sorry got a bit off tangent but hope that info helps. As far as the VIN goes, I use that to trace back that BMW in my database I've been keeping along the years. Start with the Carfax and find out if it was an auction vehicle and we can go from there.

2. Or does one go directly to BMW to get an idea as to what the history of the vehicle entails?
I believe privacy laws forbide BMW from releasing the history information except to the original owner but you guessed it -- try working with a local service advisor and he/she may be able to assist you. Sometimes a dealer has access to those records and can fax them over to you as well. Once again, exhaust all efforts to find the complete service history so you can make an informed decision on your purchase.

Anything else, please let me know.

Best regards,
MPowerChicago
 

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Discussion Starter #20
7sport said:
Thanks, from another guy in the market for one. Really is helpful information.
I'll post the final results on Friday or Saturday for this week but so far 2 M5's have sold from the auctions I keep a track of. My intention is not to offend folks here who have an M5 by publishing wholesale auction prices. But rather to help those in the market (like myself) guage market conditions. Of course, if you find a fellow forum member or a supporting vendor / dealer selling an M5 please consider them first before trying local dealers. Just my $0.02 -- after all, the supporting vendors / dealers are the ones that provide the bandwidth that we all use (Gustav or others, please correct me if I'm wrong on that though).


Here you go,

Florida Orlando Auto Auction
Market Report
November 9, 2004
Year Make Model Color Drs Engine Trans Options Mileage Price
2000 BMW M5 SILVER 4 8C Gas 6 Tape, EW, Lthr, SR 64576 $29800
2001 BMW M5 BLACK 4 6C Gas 6 Tape, EW, Lthr, SR 103795 $26000
 
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