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Discussion Starter #1
My [German] sales rep who has even driven the M6 on the track doesn't expect the M5 in production until right after the German holiday month of August 2005. That means Sept 2005 delivery for the first ones. The sales manager thinks it will be April 2005, however. It's unclear whether they just don't know or if BMW still hasn't finalized definitive plans. US delivery should be at the same time as European.

Among other things, at last word they still haven't completed the engine testing and final specs. The decision on 500 (498) vs. 550hp is not yet definite. I gave him my vote.

They say there definitely will be a manual transmission as this is a sticking point with many, especially traditionalists. While I am not a traditionalist, I have a strong bias toward the manual, but will likely seek to try the SMG first, though I don't know how as I'm first on the list.

The M6 is due out 4-5 months after M5 production starts. BMW has not committed to producing an M5 carbrio yet, but believes it to be inevitable as there is so much demand and there is a need to counter the SL600 and SL55.

Pricing for the Ms will be $20-25k more than the otherwise comparably-configured non-M models. Since Ms come loaded, this seems to mean about $90k for the M5.

I also took a long look at a 645 cabrio. It was sapphire black with a burgundy interior. It looked really nice. I did not drive it. It's rear seat accommodations are at least as poor as previously discussed here. They are no larger, and likely a slight bit worse, than in M3 cabrio. This is disappointing. Even the trunk is not much bigger than that of my M3. What is significantly bigger is the space under the hood. I guess there's a price to pay for power.

Tom
 

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Tom,
Thanks for that. Whats interesting is there are many reports saying production starts fall 04- which would be sooner than the typical M model cycle. I cant believe the trunk space in the cabrio is that bad- you have the rear end which is supposed to maximize space and you end up with similar space to that in the (IMHO) cleaner looking M3? That is a disappointment.
 

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I thought long and hard about an M6 coupe, but the car is REALLY large for a sport coupe, and only looks marginally more attractive than the 5 (IMO), and there will be only a marginal, if any, performance advantage in that car. That, coupled with the non-opening sunroof and Marquis de Sade rear seats swayed me toward the M5. If I want a de jure 2-seat sports car, I would go for a 997TT, hands down. The price on those has become ludicrous, however, so a pre-owned, certified low-mileage Porsche looks like a great deal if you want the greatest in sport driving and styling, I think. cherrsagai
 

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Discussion Starter #4
MEnthusiast said:
Tom,
Thanks for that. Whats interesting is there are many reports saying production starts fall 04- which would be sooner than the typical M model cycle. I cant believe the trunk space in the cabrio is that bad- you have the rear end which is supposed to maximize space and you end up with similar space to that in the (IMHO) cleaner looking M3? That is a disappointment.
When I looked at the trunk, I assumed it had a spare tire underneath the bed, but instead it had run-flats on and the under-trunk was consumed by the battery and other stuff. The upper trunk is consumed by the cabrio-top catcher. It's a bit wider than the 3-series trunk, but not much bigger otherwise.

The rear seat room was most disappointing. Oh, I forgot to mention the headroom - very little. My head hit hard into the roof. The back is suitable for members of the lollipop guild but not much of anyone else.

Tom
 

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Interesting news bernhtp

...but it's also hardly to believe! As I could choose the body and interior colour of the car already. It's still autum 2004 for the M5 - September ist what our dealers say.??????

Although about hp I guess they are trying to get out more than 500. Audi RS6 Plus is getting to close! 0-100 km/h in 4.6 seconds oooowww... that hurts.
I keep fingers crossed!!!:M5launch:
 

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bernhtp said:
The M6 is due out 4-5 months after M5 production starts. BMW has not committed to producing an M5 carbrio yet, but believes it to be inevitable as there is so much demand and there is a need to counter the SL600 and SL55.

Tom
Wait, "M5 cabrio"?? Don't you mean "M6 cabrio"? ??????
 

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bernhtp said:
My [German] sales rep who has even driven the M6 on the track doesn't expect the M5 in production until right after the German holiday month of August 2005. That means Sept 2005 delivery for the first ones. The sales manager thinks it will be April 2005, however. It's unclear whether they just don't know or if BMW still hasn't finalized definitive plans. US delivery should be at the same time as European.

Tom
Are you sure that you don't mean Sept 2004 for the first M5 deliveries, but possibly that date might slip to April 2005? This seems contrary to other sources I have seen. Plus I don't want to have to wait that long!
 

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MEnthusiast said:
Tom,
Thanks for that. Whats interesting is there are many reports saying production starts fall 04- which would be sooner than the typical M model cycle.
I'll bet the advanced cycle is to counter AMG, which seems to just throw cars out to get them on the market. We know that they do not take same steps with the same outcome in mind, as evidenced by the driving differences in the two cars. It doesn't take much to crank up more power on the supercharger..... And BMW M has been loosing sales to AMG due to the fact that AMG is quoting higher power numbers, but most importantly because BMW has nothing to counter them with. The same can be said of Audi versus BMW.

As for HP in the new engine, haven't there been rumors that in testing the engine has put out over 600HP? I believe it, although I wonder about the power curve. It sounds like 500 or 550 is simply a programing change if they are still debating it. So, even if it comes out with 500, it won't take too long before some company figures out how to get the extra 50+ hp out of the computer.
 

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bernhtp said:
My [German] sales rep ....
how far is this sales dude down in the BMW coporate food chain to give accurate info?

Manual? M5 Convertible? 2005 Sept?

like someone mentioned, these are all contrary to what sources including major magazines (european and US) tells us.
 

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There wont be a manual M5 and it will be released in europe this year, late 2005 is highly unlikely.

all the best
adam
 

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Discussion Starter #12
M! said:
how far is this sales dude down in the BMW coporate food chain to give accurate info?

Manual? M5 Convertible? 2005 Sept?

like someone mentioned, these are all contrary to what sources including major magazines (european and US) tells us.
I meant M6 cabrio - that was a typo.

The rumors and stories we've all heard are all over the map. Official BMW (e.g., PR on concept car) talks about typical two-year lag behind base model delivery (Fall 2005). Other sources say much earlier in an accelerated cycle.

Many sources say SMG only, but we've seen a flurry recently that say a manual we be offered. BMW is not yet commital on the M6. The power has changed back and forth between 500 and 550hp.

My thread here is information from a sales guy far better connected and informed than many. Whether he "knows" anything or just given information by those within BMW who are just speculating is unclear. I just reported what I heard. My guess is that most automotive press sources are not much better.

With that said, my personal take is that the product specs and delivery are not finalized yet. There appear to be lots of contrary rumors without BMW official statements clearing it up. Unless BMW is far more secretive than normal this late in the game, it seems to be that a start of production late this summer is unlikely.

Here are some questions I have:

1. How are M cars manufactured? Do they come off the same lines as the base models, or is the base model shell sent to an M facility for final hand assembly? Or some hybrid of the two? The answer affects how much lead time is required to re-tool the factory.

2. What is the lead time for reserving EPA and DOT testing? Is this public record? EPA testing obviously requires choice of final engine specs and transmission options. My guess is that the M5 is sufficiently different from the 545 to require its own set of crash tests.

Tom
 

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MEnthusiast said:
Thanks for that. Whats interesting is there are many reports saying production starts fall 04- which would be sooner than the typical M model cycle. .
I agree that a release date of fall 04 is early in the M-cycle. I think BMW will some reason to delay release because they always have in the past.

:cheers:

ralph :M5launch: (vadas1)
 

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bernhtp said:
1. How are M cars manufactured? Do they come off the same lines as the base models, or is the base model shell sent to an M facility for final hand assembly? Or some hybrid of the two? The answer affects how much lead time is required to re-tool the factory.
My understanding is that they are made to a large extent on the same line. But, then again, I have heard so many different versions of the story that it is hard to say for sure. I imagine (based on other special cars) that they are made on the same line as the regular models, and at some point pulled off the regular line to a seperate line to have the M stuff done. Whether or not the final M assembly takes place at the same location or not.. no idea.

bernhtp said:
2. What is the lead time for reserving EPA and DOT testing? Is this public record? EPA testing obviously requires choice of final engine specs and transmission options. My guess is that the M5 is sufficiently different from the 545 to require its own set of crash tests.
Tom
DOT crash testing would depend on how much is changed with the structure of the car. Typically, changing some bumper covers does not require a new crash test since the overall structure has not changed.

My understanding is that EPA testing takes at least 3 months.

Keep in mind that BMW may actually have already decided the final numbers, but they are keeping a tight lip since they know that anything that they say (even internal) will likely end up on the Internet. My bet looking at recent pictures is this fall/winter for Europe, and next summer for the US, if not next spring. Heck, they may even surprise us and release the car here this fall or winter as well, just to counter AMG.

Anyone remember when the e39 (non-M) was released in Europe and here?
 
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