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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering if there are any thoughts about the manner in which the first cars will be distributed in the US next fall. I am number 3 on an Atlanta dealers list. A larger dealer could place me number 19, but they sell 2000+ cars per year so they will probably get many more M5s.

Will each dealer in the US get one car initially, then the larger dealers will get the allocation balance, or will the larger dealers get the bulk of the allocations while the smaller dealers must wait their turn?
 

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Good question - I'm number three on the Macon, GA list however I am told that often times certain "stellar" dealerships get prioirty - I wonder - supposedly these folks get good allocations and I have to believe it based on the 6 series cars I have seen there (I go there nearly every week)...... to be honest there is a good side to all of this - if you get the car early you will enjoy it first. If I get the car 6 months later I will have the benefit of knowing your issues before I buy and BMW will have that much more time to fix issues. Lets all be happy....
 

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My dealer here in southern NH was doing about 10 E39 M5's a year before the E46 M3 was launched back in late '00. I got on the M5 list in March of '00 at number 12. Everything was going to plan until BMW started selling the new M3's. Since the sell rate of the M3 was much higher than the M5, BMW reduced M5 production considerably to meet M3 demand. I finally ended up getting my M5 in August '01, about 18 months after getting on the list. I don't remember exactly what my SA told me, but I seem to remember that they had 2 or 3 M5 list members cancel in that time. In essence, if I was equivalently number 9 on the list, their initial estimate of 10 cars a year, dwindled to 6 because of the M3. There was also no rhyme or reason to BMW holding to a guaranteed number of M5's in any given amount of time. I got on the E60 list about 1-1/2 years ago at number 6 for the usual refundable $500. Now when are we going to start seeing the first E60's over here in the US and, perhaps just as importantly, when is the launch of the new M3 due?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
This is all speculation because BMW has the perrogative to change production scheduling without warning. I talked with a couple of sales managers here in Georgia over the last two days, one just returned from Germany.

The first "production run" of M5s for the US is supposed to be 1000 for next Fall. Every BMW dealer in the US will get at least one. The balance will be allocated based on Dealer volume.

I am not sure what this means in practice, but it could mean that a low volume dealer like Macon will get one in the fall, one early in 2006, then another later in the year. Quite a few intervening variable could confound that scenerio. There are several volume dealers in Atlanta that have over 30 guys on their lists and they sell 2400 BMWs a year. A dealer in Macon, Columbus or Athens may only sell 600 a year, so their leverage is commensurate.

I am number 5 in Athens, Georgia so I expect to drive out in the late Fall of 2006. Nalley BMW in Decatur, Georgia has had one man on their list for 4 years. 5 years to wait for a car certainly demonstrates patience and dedication.
 

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I think it has to do with how that dealer is related to BMW Group - is the dealer/shop front directly employed by BMW Group or is the dealer a local franchise (if that's the right word). If directly employed by BMW Group - they generally tend to be large dealerships, and get the lion's share. I might be wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
M6, you may be right about the politics of organization. When you add personal influence to that mix it destablizes the predictablility of projected outcomes considerably.

Most forums like this are reviewed by knowledgable insiders. I am suprised that a Sales Advisor from one of the dealers is not a member and has not contributed to some of these procedural issues.
 

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Cosmic Bimmer said:
M6, you may be right about the politics of organization. When you add personal influence to that mix it destablizes the predictablility of projected outcomes considerably.

Most forums like this are reviewed by knowledgable insiders. I am suprised that a Sales Advisor from one of the dealers is not a member and has not contributed to some of these procedural issues.
I was interested in the 645Ci when that model was about to be released here in Sydney, when my dealer, and the particular dealership he is working at, are all employed directly by BMW Group. He specifically said he is an "employee of BMW Group", and this dealership gets the biggest allocation in Australia. I also spoke to another franchise dealership further out in the suburbs and they were not as convincing in their allocation strengths ("... we might 1 or 2 cars"). That being the case for the 645Ci coupe, I can also assume is the case especially for limited runs like the M5/M6. I've now decided on the M6 and I'm now amongst the top 5 in the waiting list. The added bonus with a direct employee dealership of BMW Group is that they DO NOT charge premiums prices, whereas franchise dealers could (if demand is huge). So the bottom line is: go to direct dealerships with BMW Group in your city and concurrently, if possible, the biggest one rather than franchise.
 

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Just checked on the list status in Toronto. Town and Country BMW has about 26 or so on their list with the latest 4 all coming in on one day.

BK Motors in Waterloo (60 miles away) has 12 on a list.

I don't know what to do but am considering getting on both lists. I'm looking at wanting a car in summer of 2006. Am I crazy to think this will happen?:confused:
 

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Mark540iMSport said:
Just checked on the list status in Toronto. Town and Country BMW has about 26 or so on their list with the latest 4 all coming in on one day.

BK Motors in Waterloo (60 miles away) has 12 on a list.

I don't know what to do but am considering getting on both lists. I'm looking at wanting a car in summer of 2006. Am I crazy to think this will happen?:confused:
i am on the 7th on Parkview BMW's list. and i put my order down a year ago. so hopefully someone in front of me gave up on their order so i can move up few spot on the list...

as far as T+C goes. i really don't think you'll be able to get the car in 2006. they have 26 order to digest, it'll take slightly more than a year even if BMW allocate 2 M5s a month for them, and that's not very likely. although they claim they are the biggest BMW dealer in Canada.

no idea about BK Motors though.

i'll drop by Parkview BMW tomorrow, maybe you want to me check how many orders they have?
 

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tifosi said:
i am on the 7th on Parkview BMW's list. and i put my order down a year ago. so hopefully someone in front of me gave up on their order so i can move up few spot on the list...

as far as T+C goes. i really don't think you'll be able to get the car in 2006. they have 26 order to digest, it'll take slightly more than a year even if BMW allocate 2 M5s a month for them, and that's not very likely. although they claim they are the biggest BMW dealer in Canada.

no idea about BK Motors though.

i'll drop by Parkview BMW tomorrow, maybe you want to me check how many orders they have?
have you guys tried Performance BMW in St. Catherines? I wonder what kind of shape their list is in?
 

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Does anyone have any idea how many E60 M5's BMW NA might import in 2005/06?

I had read somewhere that for the 2001 model year about 2500 were imported. Obviously Canadian allocation will probably be small by comparison.
 

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Help Me! Re: M5 "List"

OK this is wierd. Some stats from Toronto

Town & Country
26-30 deposits
$500. fully refundable
No idea on allocation
Franchise Dealer

Parkview
12 or so deposits
$10,000. deposit (not sure if refundable)
No idea on allocation
Franchise dealer I believe

BK Motors
12 deposits
$5000 deposit (fully refundable - would take less when I told them about T&C)
No idea on allocation
Franchise dealer

BMW Toronto
less than 6 deposits
$5000. deposit non-refundable
Believes they will get 3-4 per month
Corporate store.

The only intelligent discussion I had with any of these guys is the sales manager at BMW Toronto the corporate store. He said they had less than 6 buyers because they were firm about the non-refundable deposit and wanted to give BMW true figures on demand for the product. He says the approach of franchise dealers requiring as little as $500. on deposit and fully refundable was silly in that:
  • many of these "buyers" wouldn't take delivery,
  • the info is useless to BMW as the orders are not firm committments,
  • for buyers you really don't know how many serious orders are in front of you so you don't know long you'll wait
  • do you really believe your $500. non refundable deposit at number 30 will get a car before someone who walks in with a $10k firm non-refundable deposit on a car?
He was advising customers that the price could be $130-$140k Canadian (about $105 to $110k US at todays exchange). In feeling him out they are playing it safe and want to underpromise and overdeliver - hence I'm hoping final price is more like $120k-$130k CDN. Interesting that he's so conservative on price yet sounds more than optimistic on 3-4 deliveries per month?

Even if BMW Toronto gets 1 or two per month then my April 06 delivery is a sure thing if I'm 5th or 6th on the list (assuming delivery starts next Oct and assuming the 6 guys from Toronto on this board don't read this and rush downtown to get in front of me!). In fact if you want one next fall it seems like you'd get it. Sounds a hell of a lot more reassuring then being 30th at T&C or 12th at BK who will have many fewer deliveries in the first year (they're a mid market dealer).

Lastly, get this. Given that I don't really want the car until April 06 this guy seemed quite certain that I don't really need to put a deposit down. Maybe he's underestimating demand but don't forget they only have 4 or 5 firm orders. He suggested that I could probably wait, drive a demonstrater late next summer and then place my order for spring or worst case summer 06 delivery. At the end of the day there are only so many people in Toronto who can or will buy a $130k car like this. Mayber he's right and maybe Terk's question on numbers of M5's sold in Canada is relevent. Even today at any given time there are less than a dozen or so used M5's for sale in the entire country!

OK guys, help me out. What am I missing and what do you think I should do? Should I put my money down Monday at BMW Toronto or just wait it out?

Moderators, what about a sticky poll on deposits and lists? Let's find out how many have place deposits, how much, refundable or not, at MSRP or not?

Hmmm hmmm
 

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Re: Help Me! Re: M5 "List"

i guess the policy on M5 waiting list for Parkview BMW change a bit.

when i put down my deposit last year, i only had to put down 2000CDN, and it's fully refundable. if you change your mind and want to go with Parkview BMW (not that i am trying to push it) i have some connections, maybe you can also get a totally refundable deposit. and i was told T+C, Parkview, and BMW toronto are all top volume BMW dealers in Canada, and they are expecting to get approximately the same allocation every month, however BK motors will get a lot less allocation due to the low sells figures of the dealership. :biggrin:
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I think the sales manager at the Toronto store is suffering from delusions of monopolization. I think the deposits are higher in Canada because they can get away with it. The market allows that kind of goughing. They have a lot of money they can earn interest on for a good while.

BMW would have a lame marketing department if they relied on deposits to determine demand. Most of the demand is generated after people begin to see the car and want it. Not to mention that the formulae for estimating demand for any given product is calculated before the design work begins anyway.

The car business attracts a great many sociopathic types who hold the purchasers of their product in low regard; hence the term coined by car salesmen, "car queers" for enthusiast who are passionate about any given model or brand. They truly see the emotionally involved as "marks" who can easily be manipulated because they will do what it takes to obtain the object of their desire.

Their is a lot of competition in the US so I guess it keeps them honest to a certain extent. If my dealer were charging over MSRP for the car, I would just buy a Porsche or a CLS 55 or an E55.
 

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I'm looking forward to taking delivery of my M5 from Town + Country BMW on March 31, 2006. Of course, there are no guarantees, but that's the game plan. I could have been among the first to take delivery in the fall or early winter of '05, but I didn't want to have to put winter wheels and tires on right after delivery - that's what drove the timing.
 

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Spiroman said:
I'm looking forward to taking delivery of my M5 from Town + Country BMW on March 31, 2006. Of course, there are no guarantees, but that's the game plan. I could have been among the first to take delivery in the fall or early winter of '05, but I didn't want to have to put winter wheels and tires on right after delivery - that's what drove the timing.
lol, that's EXACTLY what i planed for my M5!!

except i thought i'd get my car in 2005. i specifically told my sells that i'd take the delivery of the car on March or April depending on the wheather!!

but now knowing the car won't starts to arrive untill Oct of 2005, i just want my car asap!
:mad:
 

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The waiting is excruciating...almost makes you want to import one privately from Germany! After all, BMW Canada Inc. would have to honour the warranty wherever you purchased the car.:)
 

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October 2005? That is something I can relate to, my dealer says the M6 (RHD for Australia) is looking at late 2005 too. :sad1: That's why a place like this discussion board is so important - it alleviates the wait at least! :)
 

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Spiroman said:
I'm looking forward to taking delivery of my M5 from Town + Country BMW on March 31, 2006. Of course, there are no guarantees, but that's the game plan. I could have been among the first to take delivery in the fall or early winter of '05, but I didn't want to have to put winter wheels and tires on right after delivery - that's what drove the timing.
Spiroman,

What number are you on their list? Did you put a $500. fully refundable deposit or more?

Tifosi,

Even If I could got in Parkview's list with a $2k refundable deposit at say position 12 or 13 why would I do that over going to BMW Toronto and getting on the list at number 5? Do I really care about a refundable deposit? I intend to buy the car (and I think I could do a deposit of $2k instead of $5k). I suppose refundability is important if I die, if the market tanks, or if I find myself unemployed.... I suppose any of these are possible...

Hmm, Who did you say I should talk to at Parkview?

Thanks for everyone's input.

Ashok, Gustav, I still think for us North Americans waiting for 12 to 18 months more:crying: a sticky to share info on deposits and lists would be useful.

Cheers!
 
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