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M3 - CSL - 360 CS

3.7K views 13 replies 10 participants last post by  Dirim  
#1 · (Edited)
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here´re some translations....

Nurburgring:
the 425 HP strong and 1387 kilograms heavy "Lightweight" construction Ferrari plays an improtant role in the circle of the super sports cars. From its basis, the 360 Modena, nevertheless removes it on the North Loop 13 seconds and moves thereby for instance in the time window of the Porsche 996 GT3 and Lamborghini Gallardo. Its racing course fitness is thus proven thereby.

Hockenheim:
Its tremendous handlingt, which it has to owe also to the standard sport tires, brings it very far forward on the small course. It measures also here with the best ones. Reached, like the measured values, in the delay achievement no peak values occupy the high-performance brake assembly with disks from carbon ceramic(s) composite material. Probably however in the everyday life fitness (brake comfort) and in fading behavior.

Acceleration and Braking:
The CS misses acceleration and brakes into magic time border of 20 seconds (to accelerate form 0 to 200 kph and to break from 200 kph to stand) only completely scarcely. The standard semi-automated F1-gear box fits outstanding into the sporty surrounding field and shows also, what concerns the switching comfort, very acceptable achievements. The shortest switching time amounts to 15 milliseconds in the "Race"-mode then gets a bit hard. A braking control a very few competitors still do somewhat better, although the achievements shown do not give a cause for a complaint.

Maximum transverse acceleration:
The CS runs in series on Pirelli sports ytres of the type P Zero Corsa, in front in the quite small size of 225/35 ZR 19. On the rear axle the comparatively sumptuous format 295/35 ZR 19 is used. The guess: wider tyres in front would have entailed tendentious a much harder handling in the frontier.

Aerodynamics:
The extension of the front apron underneath the air ducts and the optimization of the air circulation at the under floor brings light drift at the front axle. At the rear axle the drift is reduced by aerodynamic fine cross section, among other things by the higher outline edge, easily. Also by the modified side spoilers the airflow within the tail range was improved. The absolute values do not cover themselves with the optimisticFerrari data, probably however indicated the tendency is confirmed.

Handling:
The close 18-meters handlöing track is still completely problem-free, therewhile the fast 36-meters handling track becomes a fastidious exercise:
The correct line to meet falls uncommonly heavily because of the jagged giving in behavior. Even small guidance corrections entail strong reactions in the handling. To approach the side inclination of the body driving along curves is hardly registered in the cockpit, why it falls in the CS every now and then heavily to reach the limit without doubts - about like that as it is possible with the BMW M3 CSL, which plays trumps here so impressively.
With the simulated, fast track switching the Ferrari does actually somewhat heavily, or the drivers. Which was said for the fast handling track, applies also here: the meeting of the correct point of giving in is completely simple nich and requires a lot of training. For rehabilitation is said:
The results look only compared with the brilliant CSL in such a way on the chassis sector somewhat weak.

Verdict:

"The meta-physical forces of the Ferrari are a component of its taking nature"

The subjective effect on outstanding ones as well as on that, which drives it, give it hardly an increase on the upward open sympathy scale. The uncommonly charismatic appearance of the Competitione Stradale is the one side, its hardcore program in things of driving dynamics the other one. The fascinating drive unit finds now also in an appropriate brake its countering part. The enthusiasm for the Competitione Stradale does not however only justify itself in the visible subject.
 
#2 ·
Re: So, Was The M3 CSL Worth It After All?

On paper the CSL isn't worth the money. It doesn't offer a significant advantage over the stock model or what you could gain can by modifying a standard M3 with the money saved. A bit like the X50 package for the Porsche. Modifying a stock model is more productive than buying an upgraded model.

On the other hand there are always individuals wishing to own a limited edition model. And I think in a good few years time the CSL will become much sought after and the used prices will reflect this.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Re: So, Was The M3 CSL Worth It After All?

Andy-UK said:
On paper the CSL isn't worth the money. It doesn't offer a significant advantage over the stock model or what you could gain can by modifying a standard M3 with the money saved. A bit like the X50 package for the Porsche. Modifying a stock model is more productive than buying an upgraded model.

On the other hand there are always individuals wishing to own a limited edition model. And I think in a good few years time the CSL will become much sought after and the used prices will reflect this.
How productive is it really to modify an M3 to CSL levels?

So you think maybe you can : fit the upgraded front rotors / upgraded engine / engine management / lubrication improvements / air intake, and metering modifications / exhaust systems / reduced polar moment of inertia / lowered centre of gravity / different suspension / track widths / revised geometry / steering ratios / race seats / thinner glass and fit the carbon roof and other carbon components for no money at all do you?

Do you think you can then offer a full three year warranty on the modded M3?

From the test above, the CSL laps the Nordschliefe faster than a 360 CS. Surely this alone actually shows what fantastic value it represents above its M3 brother, which is easily 25 seconds per lap slower. I bet race teams wish they could buy such advantages at the price :hihi:
 
#7 ·
Re: So, Was The M3 CSL Worth It After All?

Tim,

When this thread was originally posted it was a magazine article comparing a standard E46 M3 vs E46 M3 CSL vs E46 AC Schnizter M3. If I remember correctly. I think Gabriel343 must of changed it shortly after. Confusing to say the least ouich It might even be another thread. Lurking around somewhere.

The statistics printed in the magazine showed that it was extremely close between all three cars. Hence why I said it doesn't offer a significant advantage over a standard or modded M3. Although on this test the CSL proves itself very well.

There seems to be very varying opinions from the press as to the effectiveness of the CSL. Personally I find it to be a seriously good looking car. Although I am not exactly a fan of the stripped down race car for the road idea. And to be honest I am not much of a fan of modded cars. I prefer to keep things standard. Hope this clears things up...
 
#8 · (Edited)
Re: So, Was The M3 CSL Worth It After All?

Andy-UK said:
Tim,

When this thread was originally posted it was a magazine article comparing a standard E46 M3 vs E46 M3 CSL vs E46 AC Schnizter M3. If I remember correctly. I think Gabriel343 must of changed it shortly after. Confusing to say the least ouich It might even be another thread. Lurking around somewhere.

The statistics printed in the magazine showed that it was extremely close between all three cars. Hence why I said it doesn't offer a significant advantage over a standard or modded M3. Although on this test the CSL proves itself very well.

There seems to be very varying opinions from the press as to the effectiveness of the CSL. Personally I find it to be a seriously good looking car. Although I am not exactly a fan of the stripped down race car for the road idea. And to be honest I am not much of a fan of modded cars. I prefer to keep things standard. Hope this clears things up...
Andy, I'm not sure if I know you from any other UK forums (I'm steved from BM3W) but it's such a misconception to say that there's not much difference between CSL and standard M3. That couldn't be further from the truth and really surprises me that such a conclusion has been spread around and seems to be so readily accepted by supposedly well informed car enthusiasts.

The CSL has more than 40bhp per tonne more than the M3 (and it feels it) it also weighs more than 110kg less than an M3 (and it really shows when you tackle a series of corners). The CSL accelerates violently, yes violently in the lower gears and is in such contrast to the M3 that you would only need drive it 400yds to tell the difference. With some modest improvements to the brakes and exhaust you end up with one of the all time great cars, very different in character to the M3 and very close in feel to a proper race car.

I owned 3 M3s before my CSL and have owned many Porsches including GT3 and RSs. The CSL is so close to Porsche's RS philosophy that they seem to share the same DNA. But trust me, there's nothing fake or over-hyped about the CSL. It does 'exactly' as it says on the tin, no exaggeration or spin required.

p.s. a friend of mine who also owns a CSL will be taking delivery of his 360CS in the next few weeks, so we should be able to make a more reasoned comparison between the two.
 
#9 ·
Scotts35_CSL as I mentioned before. My original statement was based on a magazine article comparing 3 different M3's together. Maybe they got it wrong. But that was what I was going off. And in that article the CSL appeared a bit wanting in some areas. Now I know that some magazine articles are complete BS and some performance figures the mags quote are somewhat off the mark. Maybe this was such an article.

Gabriel343 changed the article to a M3 CSL vs Ferrari. In which the CSL performs much better. So I have seen two completely independent magazine reviews of the car. One for and one against. I am in no way saying it is a crap car. As I know what it is capable of (read: road rocket, scooby slayer etc etc).
 
#10 ·
Andy-UK said:
Scotts35_CSL as I mentioned before. My original statement was based on a magazine article comparing 3 different M3's together. Maybe they got it wrong. But that was what I was going off. And in that article the CSL appeared a bit wanting in some areas. Now I know that some magazine articles are complete BS and some performance figures the mags quote are somewhat off the mark. Maybe this was such an article.

Gabriel343 changed the article to a M3 CSL vs Ferrari. In which the CSL performs much better. So I have seen two completely independent magazine reviews of the car. One for and one against. I am in no way saying it is a crap car. As I know what it is capable of (read: road rocket, scooby slayer etc etc).
Yes, I read the articles. There's been quite a few that seem to have struggled to get to grips with the CSL and some of them have been utter BS. Strange that opinons have been so polarised, even stranger when you drive one and realise how wide of the mark some of the conclusions really are.

If anyone is planning on visiting the RMA track day at Bedford this Saturday there will be a few of us there and you can judge for yourself.
 
#12 ·
I don't have any figures to defend what I'm about to write here, but I have some unqualified guessing regarding the M3 or M3 CSL discussion. The E46 body came out in 1998 and the cars will probably lose more value than they do today when the new 3 and 4 series comes out. Since the new cars (and the great looking M4) doesn't have the radical changes we saw with the E39 vs. E60, people will probably embrace the new 3 and 4 quite fast. Another factor for high value loss is that the M3 has sold very well, and lots of cars will probably be available on the market.

My guess is that if you go for the CSL instead of the normal M3, you will have a more unique car to sell in a few years. You will probably have an easier time getting the sale done, and the value will be higher than the M3's value. I have no idea how much more you will get for the CSL, but I'm sure you will at least get back some of the extra money you've spent to get it. Besides, while you own it you will have something a bit unique, and even if it isn't that much faster, why don't you take advantage of the little power gain/weight loss the CSL provides.

Like I wrote earlier, this is just my unqualified guessing, and I'm sorry I had to use so many words expressing it. :byebye:
 
#14 ·
maq said:
On paper the CSL doesn't offer a lot, but on the track it takes a tuner a lot to get a standard M3 to keep up with the CSL. I've never driven a CSL, but from what I've read, you can only find the beautiy of the CSL when you push it to its limit
Ask any racing team, it's the last few percent that is the most difficult and most expensive to get out of a car.