BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

New World Order - The New BMW M5.

Whilst it's true that the M Division has come in for quite a few comments regarding current product or lets not beat about the bush The BMW X5 M and BMW X6 M. Identified as the "next Chapter" in M. Derided by enthusiasts and journalists alike. Has the M Division lost it? Has the M Division lost it's focus? Does M stand for marketing now?
Does the M philosophy no longer remain pertinent?

Are some of the comments.


The Pinnacle of Efficient Dynamics.
With the creation of BMW Efficient Dynamics. Technology aimed at reducing fuel consumption without sacrificing driving pleasure and carbon dioxide emissions spreading throughout the BMW portfolio. One question remained unanswered how will the M Division benefit ? And how will the M division remain relevant in the long term?

BMW M Division will become the pinacle of Efficient Dynamics. Welcome to the Brave New World of Performance.


Lightweight construction.
BMW M cars will now seperate themselves from the core cars by utilising the same platform but for the relevant M model. The floorplan will be pressed in aluminium. As the core 5er begins to use lightweight materials such as aluminium on the door and bonnet skins, these will transfer over as will an optional Carbon Fibre reinforced roof - A first for an M5 , and a first for a BMW performance sedan.


BMW Active Aerodynamics
First showcased on the GINA Concept Car - A car that was way ahead of it's time and key component in the BMW Efficient Dynamics programme.
In principle to reduce drag and boost downforce and lower fuel consumption. Special Aerodynamic aids that will move automatically incorporated in the front of the car including the outeredge of the wheel arches , front bumpers and within the grille intake. Mini Turbines are incorporated in the grille which convert drag under braking into electricity.


KERS (Kinetic Energy recovery System)
The new M5 will spearhead a radical addition to further reduce consumption. Conceived well within when BMW were still commencing with their F1 Programme. With KERS developed for the F1 car , BMW also created a synergy for an application of such a system to a road car.
Successfully applied to the Road Car division the KERS developed by M division consists of an on-off-on again programme involving
Twin Parallell Supercapacitors between the driveshaft providing 10 sec power boost at the press of a button. The idea is to have stored up the energy and allow the driver to unleash the power on demand. An adaption of this idea will feature in the six cylinder Active Hybrid 5 Concept Car that will be shown in Geneva in March 2010.
Tests carried out within the confines of BMW's private proving grounds are ongoing as the KERS is relatively new tech. The development of the new car remains in status.


The Importance of Character
The V10 in the E60 M5 is truly a work of art. Although a V10 was considered and remains as a possible venture for an additional M model.
The new car inherits the V8 engine found within the BMW X5 and X6 M models. Although BMW stress that the engine will be unique to the M5 with Just under 580 PS.

The V8 although shared with the X5M and X6M is completely individual and unique to the M5. With BMW adapting the engine to suit the M5 and it’s character it’s not a complete transplant. Character in an M5 is essential as is sound. The engine has to synergize with the DKG Transmission and the KERS.
The V8 will in turn be faster and more powerful than the outgoing V10 and sound just as spectacular.
The V8 will also feature cylinder shutdown also to aid fuel consumption with overall figures expected to be between 25-30% better than the E60 M5.

Aswell as a unique engine , The M5 will inherit a Dual clutch transmission which will be unique to the M5, based upon the 7 speeder found within the current M3 , eight Gears will be available and will be equipped with a stop-start control. The DCT will also be operated with steering wheel mounted paddles. The M5 although not at first will also be available with optional Carbon Fibre brakes, currently being trialled.
Customisable driving options will also feature as will a new electronic stability control with torque vectoring and roll control.
Efficient Dynamics features will also be available from the touch of a switch.


Designed for Performance
The M5's secret has always been to remain understated and discreet on the outside , but within lies the beast.
Typical M5 and BMW M aerodynamic features adorn the car. With the new 5er central grille being much larger the central intake size has been diminished , although the brake outlets are larger. Wheel arches are swollen to add some mass on the F10's athletic muscle. A side air intake is placed underneath the character line which climaxes at the wheel arch.
The Side skirts are more sculptured alllowing for good aerodynamics.
At the rear the typical Quad exhausts remain with a sculpted diffuser and central intake. A small bootlid spoiler allows the car to remain understated.
and restrained.


What Comes After?
In addition to the standard luxury performance sedan BMW will offer a more hardcore model in the same vain as the BMW M5 CSL 25th anniversary car. Swapping Luxuries for Performance and being as hardcore as they come. Not available at first but coming on steam eighteen months later. BMW want to expand the M cars by having the core model and something more inclined for enthusiasts.


A Touring model is under consideration.
Just as BMW teased the E60. The F10 BMW M5 will bow as a Production concept at the 2011 Geneva Autoshow with the production model debuting in the early summer before the world premiere at the IAA Frankfurt in 2011. European sales begin at the same time.

"M Division : The Road Ahead : New World Order The New BMW M5." (M Division : The Road Ahead : New World Order The New BMW M5.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
Although some are straight forward well-thought out questions.
A couple leave a lot to be desired , especially when someone does not understand "progress" And how producing a car in the nineteen eighties is very much different today what with the many legislations that are required.

Autos.sympatico.ca interviewed M division boss Dr. Kay Segler at the 2011 NAIAS in Detroit. They posed some direct questions, many of which our very own members have often asked and are most interested in. Below are their most poignant questions and Dr. Segler's responses.

Q: Where are the lightweight cars?
A: M cars are being thoroughly inspected (every screw and component) for weight reduction generally, but especially from the top areas of the cars.

Q: Bring back high-revving 4-cylinder engines?
A: High revving turbo engines are the new way to go for M.

Q: Will all M cars have single turbocharged engines within 5 years?
A: We never should predict anything because we should be free of dogmas.

Q: Will BMW be returning to F1 racing with the return of turbochargers to Formula 1?
A: We are simply focusing on M cars and touring cars (24 hour races, DTM) - to have a car on the race course which a customer can also drive on the road.

Q: Will there be more special edition M3's in the future (i.e. GTS)?
A: M is always good for surprises. We will do other cars, maybe something within the next 12 months.

Q: Will M always have the manual transmission option?
A: Depends on the car and its character. The double clutch was the decision of M and it was a good decision and we keep that as far as we can.

Q: Will M cars be coming with ceramic brakes option?

A: We are working exactly on it, for the M5.

Q: Will customer ever have option to delete air conditioning, radio?
A: Depending on the car. GTS comes without air con and radio and you can then add it as options

Q: Every car after the E30 M3 has been heavier and the problem solved with more power. Has M lost its plot?
A: We're working on the lightweight issue, but it's an uphill battle and it's not so easy.

Q: How would an M green car look?
A: We are already in a way green - brake energy regeneration; reduce in the future the M5's emissions by 25-30%. But we will not compromise on the performance of our cars.

The video interview can be found at Autos.sympatico.ca: http://autos.sympatico.ca/features/7...-boss-of-bmw-m
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49,476 Posts
From the Sympatic interview where he OK ceramic brakes on the new BMW M5 :D

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/f1...bmw-m-confirms-ceramic-brakes-bmw-m5-f10.html

Adevo over @ 1 addicts posts an interview with Dr. Segler regarding 1M and M in general including the M5.

Although some are straight forward well-thought out questions.
A couple leave a lot to be desired , especially when someone does not understand "progress" And how producing a car in the nineteen eighties is very much different today what with the many legislations that are required.

Autos.sympatico.ca interviewed M division boss Dr. Kay Segler at the 2011 NAIAS in Detroit. They posed some direct questions, many of which our very own members have often asked and are most interested in. Below are their most poignant questions and Dr. Segler's responses.

Q: Where are the lightweight cars?
A: M cars are being thoroughly inspected (every screw and component) for weight reduction generally, but especially from the top areas of the cars.

Q: Bring back high-revving 4-cylinder engines?
A: High revving turbo engines are the new way to go for M.

Q: Will all M cars have single turbocharged engines within 5 years?
A: We never should predict anything because we should be free of dogmas.

Q: Will BMW be returning to F1 racing with the return of turbochargers to Formula 1?
A: We are simply focusing on M cars and touring cars (24 hour races, DTM) - to have a car on the race course which a customer can also drive on the road.

Q: Will there be more special edition M3's in the future (i.e. GTS)?
A: M is always good for surprises. We will do other cars, maybe something within the next 12 months.

Q: Will M always have the manual transmission option?
A: Depends on the car and its character. The double clutch was the decision of M and it was a good decision and we keep that as far as we can.

Q: Will M cars be coming with ceramic brakes option?

A: We are working exactly on it, for the M5.

Q: Will customer ever have option to delete air conditioning, radio?
A: Depending on the car. GTS comes without air con and radio and you can then add it as options

Q: Every car after the E30 M3 has been heavier and the problem solved with more power. Has M lost its plot?
A: We're working on the lightweight issue, but it's an uphill battle and it's not so easy.

Q: How would an M green car look?
A: We are already in a way green - brake energy regeneration; reduce in the future the M5's emissions by 25-30%. But we will not compromise on the performance of our cars.

The video interview can be found at Autos.sympatico.ca: http://autos.sympatico.ca/features/7...-boss-of-bmw-m
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,512 Posts
OK time for a bit of self recognition here :)

I was off on the weight and it sounds like there will be future versions of M cars WITH the V10.

I think I called it pretty accurately in 2008!

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/f1...2-m6-drivetrain-analysis-ker.html#post1316788

As much as I hope you are right about a V-10 all I can say is "let's wait and see". A V-10 is a non-starter in the F10/F12/F13 M cars. So if you want to wait at least another 7 years, you might have a shot (or not).

The "source" of the road map was not official and is now 14 months old. Seems like the trickle of info received so far about the F10 M5 contradicts a lot of the speculation in that earlier "report".

Tell you what, when BMW puts a V-10 in a street legal F10 during its production life, I'll buy you a beer (redeemable in Hawaii of course).:cheers: (and I will be happy to so do but I doubt that I will be buying that brewski)

Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
Adevo over @ 1 addicts posts an interview with Dr. Segler regarding 1M and M in general including the M5.

Although some are straight forward well-thought out questions.
A couple leave a lot to be desired , especially when someone does not understand "progress" And how producing a car in the nineteen eighties is very much different today what with the many legislations that are required.

Autos.sympatico.ca interviewed M division boss Dr. Kay Segler at the 2011 NAIAS in Detroit. They posed some direct questions, many of which our very own members have often asked and are most interested in. Below are their most poignant questions and Dr. Segler's responses.

Q: Where are the lightweight cars?
A: M cars are being thoroughly inspected (every screw and component) for weight reduction generally, but especially from the top areas of the cars.

Q: Bring back high-revving 4-cylinder engines?
A: High revving turbo engines are the new way to go for M.

Q: Will all M cars have single turbocharged engines within 5 years?
A: We never should predict anything because we should be free of dogmas.

Q: Will BMW be returning to F1 racing with the return of turbochargers to Formula 1?
A: We are simply focusing on M cars and touring cars (24 hour races, DTM) - to have a car on the race course which a customer can also drive on the road.

Q: Will there be more special edition M3's in the future (i.e. GTS)?
A: M is always good for surprises. We will do other cars, maybe something within the next 12 months.

Q: Will M always have the manual transmission option?
A: Depends on the car and its character. The double clutch was the decision of M and it was a good decision and we keep that as far as we can.

Q: Will M cars be coming with ceramic brakes option?
A: We are working exactly on it, for the M5.

Q: Will customer ever have option to delete air conditioning, radio?
A: Depending on the car. GTS comes without air con and radio and you can then add it as options

Q: Every car after the E30 M3 has been heavier and the problem solved with more power. Has M lost its plot?
A: We're working on the lightweight issue, but it's an uphill battle and it's not so easy.

Q: How would an M green car look?
A: We are already in a way green - brake energy regeneration; reduce in the future the M5's emissions by 25-30%. But we will not compromise on the performance of our cars.

The video interview can be found at Autos.sympatico.ca: http://autos.sympatico.ca/features/7...-boss-of-bmw-m

M has become a sham, and Dr Kay is a sham of a figure head. Its pathetic what they are trying to dish out these days in the new offerings. All that was M is now nearly gone, and flame away those that think that an M with a turbo and more torque down low is a better car, its not, and thats just the facts of life. They are now just like everyone else, nothing special, not unique, so whether its an AMG, or a Porsche or RS audi, the M is just another money model for BMW and has no connection to the roots of Motorsport history that M had championed. It sickens me when I read and hear the interviews and answers from this joker from Mini, he claims to be a passionate, auto enthusiast, when hes nothing more than a figure head for marketing majik.
As for the green bs, please, take it somewhere else, anyone here in the market for a green supercar??? Think not, we want power and fun, and that has nothing to do with part diesel, turbo, electric efficent dynamics crap. Im so sick of hearing that the "market" demands this, who the hell are they marketting to, its certainly not the US, the LARGEST market for the M brand. Ive said it already, unless I decide to buy the last model year of the E92 M3 S65, this M6 will be my last M, and perhaps BMW for some time, now that they brand has been diluted, we'll just give Porsche a window of opportunity to sell me something that doesnt have a turbo.
I still cant believe that no one from the US in particular are screaming that M has abandonded Naturally Aspired engines, BMW, an engine company first and foremost has abandonded its entire technical history in this green movement bs; make a damn 6 cyl NA engine like P cars have done for ever with all the power we need, we dont need turbos and we dont want them. The Nuevo M wannabes can have all the turbos they want, they'll never be true Ms in the minds of us that understand what M stood for. S85 and the S65 are the end of the M line:crying: dont try to convince yourself of anything but this truth, we've been sold out. :1zhelp:
 
  • Like
Reactions: michowen

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,918 Posts
M has become a sham, and Dr Kay is a sham of a figure head. Its pathetic what they are trying to dish out these days in the new offerings. All that was M is now nearly gone, and flame away those that think that an M with a turbo and more torque down low is a better car, its not, and thats just the facts of life. They are now just like everyone else, nothing special, not unique, so whether its an AMG, or a Porsche or RS audi, the M is just another money model for BMW and has no connection to the roots of Motorsport history that M had championed. It sickens me when I read and hear the interviews and answers from this joker from Mini, he claims to be a passionate, auto enthusiast, when hes nothing more than a figure head for marketing majik.
As for the green bs, please, take it somewhere else, anyone here in the market for a green supercar??? Think not, we want power and fun, and that has nothing to do with part diesel, turbo, electric efficent dynamics crap. Im so sick of hearing that the "market" demands this, who the hell are they marketting to, its certainly not the US, the LARGEST market for the M brand. Ive said it already, unless I decide to buy the last model year of the E92 M3 S65, this M6 will be my last M, and perhaps BMW for some time, now that they brand has been diluted, we'll just give Porsche a window of opportunity to sell me something that doesnt have a turbo.
I still cant believe that no one from the US in particular are screaming that M has abandonded Naturally Aspired engines, BMW, an engine company first and foremost has abandonded its entire technical history in this green movement bs; make a damn 6 cyl NA engine like P cars have done for ever with all the power we need, we dont need turbos and we dont want them. The Nuevo M wannabes can have all the turbos they want, they'll never be true Ms in the minds of us that understand what M stood for. S85 and the S65 are the end of the M line:crying: dont try to convince yourself of anything but this truth, we've been sold out. :1zhelp:
I agree with most of what you said. BMW will have to compete very aggressively to get me to upgrade from my 08 M6 Cab.....

The good bit of news is that they are going to a 8 speed setup for DCT. Turbo motors have a much lower rpm range that our beloved atmospheric V10 but the addition of the 8th gear is significant and with 580 hp, big torque, it should be noticably faster than our current V10s.

I have a X6 with the V8TT and the gearbox is pretty amazing for a slushbox, I expect 8 DCT to be better.

I must admit the KERS feature may make me buy the new car alone. I will have to deal with the turbo (yuck).

BTW, Dr. Kay alluded to the V10 being available in another M model or perhaps even a Z model.....There is NO way that I am buying the new M5 when it comes out, I want to wait to see the variants.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,482 Posts
Said it a LOT but I stand by not believing BMW will use a 2nd hand engine (X5M/X6M) in the new M5 no matter how much it's tweaked. less than 580bhp is an epic fail. If the X5 and X6 m can get 555hp even the worst tuner on the planet would get an increase of more than 580bhp... less than 600 bhp will not get me in a new M5
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
M has become a sham, and Dr Kay is a sham of a figure head. Its pathetic what they are trying to dish out these days in the new offerings. All that was M is now nearly gone, and flame away those that think that an M with a turbo and more torque down low is a better car, its not, and thats just the facts of life. They are now just like everyone else, nothing special, not unique, so whether its an AMG, or a Porsche or RS audi, the M is just another money model for BMW and has no connection to the roots of Motorsport history that M had championed. It sickens me when I read and hear the interviews and answers from this joker from Mini, he claims to be a passionate, auto enthusiast, when hes nothing more than a figure head for marketing majik.
As for the green bs, please, take it somewhere else, anyone here in the market for a green supercar??? Think not, we want power and fun, and that has nothing to do with part diesel, turbo, electric efficent dynamics crap. Im so sick of hearing that the "market" demands this, who the hell are they marketting to, its certainly not the US, the LARGEST market for the M brand. Ive said it already, unless I decide to buy the last model year of the E92 M3 S65, this M6 will be my last M, and perhaps BMW for some time, now that they brand has been diluted, we'll just give Porsche a window of opportunity to sell me something that doesnt have a turbo.
I still cant believe that no one from the US in particular are screaming that M has abandonded Naturally Aspired engines, BMW, an engine company first and foremost has abandonded its entire technical history in this green movement bs; make a damn 6 cyl NA engine like P cars have done for ever with all the power we need, we dont need turbos and we dont want them. The Nuevo M wannabes can have all the turbos they want, they'll never be true Ms in the minds of us that understand what M stood for. S85 and the S65 are the end of the M line:crying: dont try to convince yourself of anything but this truth, we've been sold out. :1zhelp:

Sorry but that comes across as a rant.

I'll say it again, I couldn't give a toss about what kind of engine the F10 has along as the whole package adds up. I would actually prefer a FI engine as the E60 M5 would have been a much better road car if it didn't have such a high revving nature and a lack of low down torque
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,098 Posts
I think the new M5 is going to be killer even though it will probably not come in a 6speed gear box ... :(

The outgoing model was epic but I really didn't enjoy it in city driving. In comparison to my Porsche it needed lots of space and speed to be fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
832 Posts
Sorry but that comes across as a rant.

I'll say it again, I couldn't give a toss about what kind of engine the F10 has along as the whole package adds up. I would actually prefer a FI engine as the E60 M5 would have been a much better road car if it didn't have such a high revving nature and a lack of low down torque

Oh yes...it is a rant...and a beautiful one at that !

M630 and I have been in the same corner on this one for a while :cheers:
That interview, as he so rightfully states, makes me sick in my stomach :mad:. They have obliterated/negated their hard earned heritage....Is that heritage still relevant today ? I certainly think so and i'm sure many others are in the same corner.

I may still buy BMW M's in the future but certainly not because they're the finely honed driving machines of old.....the feelings generated by the old machines found their dead end with the E60 M5......greatness ended with this model..Turbo,KERS, and all the other crap don't cut it....not to continue with another rant i'll end here.

Has anyone checked the current prices for a mint E30 M3 Sport Evo ? Many of them cost more than an '07 M5 ! Why ? That, i guess, is one of the starting points upon which the M mystic was built.

At least nothing can be done to destroy what the old high revers stand for !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
750 Posts
The Importance of Character
The V10 in the E60 M5 is truly a work of art. Although a V10 was considered and remains as a possible venture for an additional M model.
The new car inherits the V8 engine found within the BMW X5 and X6 M models. Although BMW stress that the engine will be unique to the M5 with Just under 580 PS.

The V8 although shared with the X5M and X6M is completely individual and unique to the M5. With BMW adapting the engine to suit the M5 and it’s character it’s not a complete transplant. Character in an M5 is essential as is sound. The engine has to synergize with the DKG Transmission and the KERS.
The V8 will in turn be faster and more powerful than the outgoing V10 and sound just as spectacular.
The V8 will also feature cylinder shutdown also to aid fuel consumption with overall figures expected to be between 25-30% better than the E60 M5.

Aswell as a unique engine , The M5 will inherit a Dual clutch transmission which will be unique to the M5, based upon the 7 speeder found within the current M3 , eight Gears will be available and will be equipped with a stop-start control. The DCT will also be operated with steering wheel mounted paddles. The M5 although not at first will also be available with optional Carbon Fibre brakes, currently being trialled.
Customisable driving options will also feature as will a new electronic stability control with torque vectoring and roll control.
Efficient Dynamics features will also be available from the touch of a switch.
I think I'll be waiting for that "additional ///M model" with a BMW V10 engine. I've driven the X5M over a weekend and to be honest, was not THAT impressed. Yes its powerful, but to a limit, no high-end power like the high-revving V10 and that's what I love about the V10 the most. If I ever decide to replace my M6 with a twin turbo car at all, it will most probably say 911 on the back or GTR. :)
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top