[desmotesta]

Hey guys,

I am looking at a 2 owner 2002 M5 with 79K miles. First owner was a lady who bought it and drove till 37,000 miles.
The current owner (55 yr old gentleman) has had the car since 37,000 miles.
I contacted the shop where the car has been serviced all its life and have received the following information.

"Apart from regular scheduled maintenance the car has only has the following things replaced:
final stage fan resister (6/08)
the thermostat (1/10)"

The 02 sensors, CPS, VANOS, bushings, water pump, MAFs, power steering pump etc ALL have not yet been replaced.
The owner of the Indy BMW shop claims the particular car in question has been extremely reliable and has had neither of the issues (above) that I asked about specifically.

What do you guys think? Is it possible to go almost 80K miles without having any of the above issues?
Am I looking at a car that will need all of the above items as soon as I buy it?

 

[James (Jim) Knight]

Some cars are lemons from day one while others are cherries from day one. This car could be a cherry.

 

[DHoang]

If history is any indication of future trends, all those items under question, w/ exception of the p/s pump, typically get replaced right about that time if for nothing else but to optimize the car's stellar performance and/or to provide peace of mind.

I would anticipate these repairs to be performed under your ownership and factor that into the purchase price.

 

[chowdah]

Talking to the existing owner & tech is smart and provides a modicum of comfort, but does not suffice. Ordering a trustworthy PPI should give you clarity on leaks, rubber parts, brakes, paint/body work, stored codes, etc. Sensors and bushings are consumables: you need them when you need them. So the answer to your second question is: Yes. We have seasoned members in the Triangle, so they may be worth consulting too.

 

[desmotesta]

Thank you, and Yes I agree a PPI is still needed.

I just found it odd that after almost 2 months of searching archives I did not find a single car for sale or a thread where the car didnt need at least half items on the list (mentioned above) were not replaced.

I want to buy the story that this particular car might just be more relaible/cherry etc, but I am leaning towards the fact that between the first female owner and the current older gentleman, the car was driven slightly less harder than average.

Hoping to get a PPI from an independent place (not the current tech), just to rule out conflict of interest as the current tech has been looking after the current owner's cars for years.

 

[cab]

Frankly, 99.999% of the motoring public (including me) aren't generally inclined to replace electronic sensors until they outright fail or hit a pretty dang high mileage threshold (generally over 100K miles). You won't generally find most of them listed as preventative maintenance items either (OK, maybe O2 sensors given their harsh environment) so getting someone to knock money off the price for this isn't likely to happen. These are used cars and are generally priced accordingly...worst case, build yourself a "buffer" in on your offer price that accounts for swapping these items out and you won't be disappointed.

 

[gzig5]

According to the date codes on the parts, my car went at least 110k miles on the original MAFs, pre-cat 02's, intake CPS, Vanos solenoids, and pretty much everything else. The only major part I can find that was replaced before I owned it was the lower oil pan. I'm pretty sure the front brakes were original too because they were GONE. I'd count on replacing most of the items on your list in the next year or two so work them into the price.

 

[kjbruckner]

My 2002 has 93K miles, I;m the original owner, and the only thing replaced on your list were the O2 sensors at around 50K. Did them with Inspection II, threw a code too.
Did flush the power steering and replaced a hose and resevoir. Keep waiting for other things to wear - so far, so good.
Good luck!
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[gherardini]

OK, here's the thing, if you go for this car, and it sounds like it is the proverbial driven on sundays to church and back car, so you just might want to...

- VANOS, likely won't go. Could, but if it hasn't had problems, prolly won't [knock on wood]
- Same with PS pump, mine went when I changed the system to synthetic. Previous to the change it was fine.
- O2 sensors - replace the pre-cat sensors
- MAFs - replace 'em
- Plugs, replace 'em
- Fuel filter - replace 'em
- Check hoses [coolant, oil separator, crank case breather hoses, etc.], check pads and rotors.
- Stay on your maintenance and oil changes, hoses, etc. It'll treat you well for a while.

Total? New ///M5. It'll drive way better than what it does now.

 

[gherardini]

OK, here's the thing, if you go for this car, and it sounds like it is the proverbial driven on sundays to church and back car, so you just might want to...

- VANOS, likely won't go. Could, but if it hasn't had problems, prolly won't [knock on wood]
- Same with PS pump, mine went when I changed the system to synthetic. Previous to the change it was fine.
- O2 sensors - replace the pre-cat sensors
- MAFs - replace 'em
- Plugs, replace 'em
- Fuel filter - replace 'em
- Check hoses [coolant, oil separator, crank case breather hoses, etc.], check pads and rotors.
- Stay on your maintenance and oil changes, hoses, etc. It'll treat you well for a while.

Total? New ///M5. It'll drive way better than what it does now.

 

[-BEASTMW-]

Get a PPI. With that said...

The 02 sensors, CPS, VANOS, bushings, water pump, MAFs, power steering pump etc ALL have not yet been replaced.
The owner of the Indy BMW shop claims the particular car in question has been extremely reliable and has had neither of the issues (above) that I asked about specifically.

-O2 & CPS: more likely to fail over time, but if they haven't failed yet, they're probably fine unless you want to proactively replace them (not a bad idea). Mine has 75k and has had some O2s replaced but not others, and original CPS's, and it runs strongly.

-VANOS: this is not really a wear item, and the majority of people don't have to repair it. Don't worry.

-Water pump: this is usually replaced 100k+

-MAFs: if they've made it this far, probably a good idea to replace them as they degrade performance even if they're not causing a code. When I got mine, I had some hesitation and was definitely down on power, and new MAFs made it drive far better and gave it a lot of power back. It's only $320 or so and takes 5 minutes to change yourself, not a big deal.

-Power steering pump: I don't have much knowledge on this one but I think the lines and fittings leak more often than the pump needs replacing. I got my lines done when I bought the car at 66k. But no real need to replace at this time if there's no leak, unless you want to just get it done preventatively. Job cost me $700 although I think I overpaid... had it done before I bought it though and the car was out of state.

As far as some other items like clutch, fuel filter, fan clutch, thermo, brakes, etc. that tend to go out around now, I'd maybe do the ones that are known to cause problems down the road (like fuel filter) and not worry so much about the wear items that just haven't worn out yet (like the clutch). It's going to be hard to find a car that's had all the consumables replaced, and any M5 owner should be budgeting a good chunk of money every year for maintenance, so if you do a PPI and budget properly I wouldn't worry too much. The PPI should alert you to anything in particular that will need to be done soon, and you can use that to adjust what you're willing to pay if there are quite a few items.

 

[desmotesta]

Thank you all for your input.

I am truly at a cross roads. I have cashin hand ready buy but I am stuck between two cars.
One is the local car that has just FSU and T-stat replaced in last 79K miles (other than regular maintenance) and the CPS, O2, MAfs, Secondary air, water pump, clutch, valve cover gaskets, thrust arm bushings, none have been replaced or touched.
On the other hand I have an out of state car with over $6000 in just repairs in the last 4 years. Everything listed above has been replaced.

Why is there such a contrast in the two equally cared for cars?
Are there more M5s out there (any one here?) who is near 70-80K and is as "reliable" and trouble free as my local guy?

Please respond if you can, I am utterly confused

 

[mister2d]

Why not get the car that's had the $6K in maintenance done already. At least you'll have that piece of mind.

Unless you don't mind wrenching the first car and the combination of features is what you want.

 

[nixter]

Does the one with less maintenance have more of the options you want? If there's nothing wrong it otherwise and you don't mind having to replace some things in the next few thousand miles then go for that one. Otherwise it will always be in the back of your mind that you didn't grab the one in X color you like so much. If options/colors are equal between the two then go for the one with all the maintenance done. No brainer. Now I do notice you said repairs and not maintenance. They are two different things. Which is it?

 

[desmotesta]

Both cars are the same colors and options, one is a year older with 3K more miles. Basically the cars are identical.

As far as Repairs Vs Maintenance goes, here is the list on the out of state car:

- Starter Motor
- L&R side Exhaust Cam Position Sensors
- Valve Cover Gaskets
- New Clutch
- Instrument Cluster LCD Display
- Temp Sensor and Thermostat
- Intake & Return Power Steering Lines
- Climate Control Unit
- Crankcase Vent Hoses
- Auxiliary Fan Assembly
- Front Thrust Rod Bearings
- Left Rear Trailing Arm
- Power Steering Hoses

Compared to the local car that has JUST FSU and T-stat done and all else is fine and never needed anything (although the clutch and rotors might need replacement)

 

[mister2d]

Both cars are the same colors and options, one is a year older with 3K more miles. Basically the cars are identical.

As far as Repairs Vs Maintenance goes, here is the list on the out of state car:

- Starter Motor
- L&R side Exhaust Cam Position Sensors
- Valve Cover Gaskets
- New Clutch
- Instrument Cluster LCD Display
- Temp Sensor and Thermostat
- Intake & Return Power Steering Lines
- Climate Control Unit
- Crankcase Vent Hoses
- Auxiliary Fan Assembly
- Front Thrust Rod Bearings
- Left Rear Trailing Arm
- Power Steering Hoses

Compared to the local car that has JUST FSU and T-stat done and all else is fine and never needed anything (although the clutch and rotors might need replacement)

Sounds like a road trip to me!

 

[Tyson1868]

I really value a thorough matainance history. I bought an 03 with 78k and from your list the bushings were the only thing replaced. I am at 101k now and have not replaced any of the mentioned items and the car runs fantastic. However, the fluids and filters were and continue to be replaced regularly. I have also replaced other items such as, battery, evap purge valve, Fsu, inside seals for the doors, rear axle seals, front brakes (1st owner did this as well ), rearview mirror. I should of course mention tires and a full suspension with springs shocks. The previous owner did replace the clutch and guibo.

I like the 02 with 2 owners and the full history until I hear more about the other car's history. These cars are tough if you keep up with the mantainance but it ain't cheap. I have diven 23k since May and it hasn't let me down!

 

[gherardini]

I would go with the out of state one. Not so much because of what the closer one hasn't needed, but because of what it *will* need in the near future. While BMW says so many of it's components are 100,000 mile parts, that's crap. You can significantly improve performance by changing MAFs, plugs, fuel filter, O2 sensors at less than 50k. If it doesn't need it, it will soon.

The caveat to that is.... you really like the closer one better (color, leather, etc) and you won't mind putting the money into it shortly, because it will need it. Distance should not be a consideration in this equation. Because if you don't spend it in gas driving it home (where you get to drive it for a nice long time) you'll spend it in replacement parts.

 

[saeero]

I have an 02 model, with 150K miles on it.
Up until ~120K miles, I had absolutely no issues.
Then, I had replaced the following;
final stage resistor, fan clutch, T-stat, Head gasket, fuel sending units, O2 sensors, ambient temp sensors, thrust arm bushings (broken)
MAF, water pump (PM)
So, I think you may get lucky with that 02 model, as well.

Good Luck!