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the may "roundel" has a nice story on the geneva car show. it suggests the new M3 will be slightly under $50,000 in the u.s. also, u.s. versions are projected to have 330 bhp and 255 foot-pounds of torque, and 0-60 times around 5.2 seconds. bmw plans to put them on sale in the u.s. in october/november. so it seems that our M5s will be faster, unless bmw is being very conservative with their figures. also at the show, a "X5 V12 Le Mans," a steroid-ripped MX5 with 700 horses. btw, if you aren't a bmwcca member, consider joining. it's well worth it. you can call 800 878-9292, or go online to http://www.bmwcca.org/core.htm.
best wishes, all.
michael
 

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haha.. I also like how it says the MX5 costs 3 million Deutsch marks! hehe....
 

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ACTUALLY, BMW IS ALWAYS CONSERVATIVE WITH THEIR FIGURES. i THINK THEIR CLAIMED 0-60 TIME WAS 5.3 FOR THE M5. AND THEY TEST THEIR CARS TO 62 MPH I THINK, WHICH COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF THEY HAVE TO SHIFT INBETWEEN 60-62, BUT THATS JUST SPECUALTION.
 

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TurboPhoon55,

I think that it is Motor Trend's numbers that cannot be trusted. They do all the testing either on the dragstrip (where there is significantly more traction) or on places where they do multiple drags (also more traction due to rubber skid lines). This allows them to gain additional torque by throwing the clutch while not spin their tires excessivly. On a normal road, I believe that the M5 is only good for a 5.3 sec car.. It sure feels like one.

In my opinion, the M5 feels only slightly faster from my previous GS400. We should find some GS400 owners to do some tests. I can assure you, the GS will be able to keep up side by side..with the M5 pulling slightly away.
 

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Kelvin,

My friend who has a 2000 M5 and his sister who has a GS400 actually raced at the lights.
When he called me, he was actually surprised and dissapointed. He told me that the M5 pulled away, like you said, only slightly. He really had the intention of pulling ahead all the way. Now mind you, he was dissapointed due to the fact that his sister only ******* on the pedal and was still able to keep up.

GS400 is fast.

Paul
 

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i see what you are saying about Motor Trend's figures, but every other car magazine has gotten similar numbers. They probably do their testing on a dragstrip too, but i don't know. Motor Trend said this about their launching of the car "Come off the clutch quickly but don't immediately floor it...feed in the throttle progressively, or you'll spin those big P275/35ZR18 Dunlops too hard. Grab second gear and feel the fat meats lay down another 20 feet of rubber on the upshift. Remember to shift just shy of the 7000-rpm redline to avoid touching the rev limiter, and if you perfectly nail third, there'll be another 10 feet of tread on tarmac for your teeth-gnashing foe to witness." It's a really good article, for anyone who's interested, go to http://www.motortrend.com/dec99/bmwm5/bmwm5_f.html
From what the editor said it doesn't seem to me that they are doing any high rpm clutch drops or anything like that.
If you're saying a GS400, which i know is a fast car, and motor Trend gives it a 5.8 0-60, 14.3 in the quarter, can almost keep up with the M5, that means a 540 6 speed with 282 horsepower can keep up with an M5, with 400 horsepower. I have seen Motor Trend rate the 540 0-60 at 5.5 and the quarter at 14.0. i realize that the M5 is heavier but i don't think it's that much heavier that it can offset the 118 horsepower difference and 59 lb. ft of torque difference.
anyway, i have heard the M5's are beating by only marginal amounts the corvette's off the line. Corvette's 0-60 are rated 4.7 by motor trend, and GM's ratings are also 4.7. Granted its a different manufacturer with different testing methods, but i think it goes to show that the M5 is significantly faster than a GS400 off the line, with the right drivers in both.
Seat of the pants feel for acceleration could be very misleading, i'm not saying you're wrong, but you have to take into account engine sound, power and torque delivery and the smoothness of it, automatic verse manual, etc. it would be interesting to see a M5 against a GS400, but i know the GS would be lagging back by the end of the 1320.
i can't wait to see the L-tuned GS400 or the GS400 L sport, whatever they decide to call it. That should be really nice.
 

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I think where the M5 shines is accelerating from ~70/80mph on up. I had a GS400 highbeamed me and tried to pass me on my right when I was doing ~75mph on the fast lane. All I had to do was downshifting from 5th to 4th and hit the throttle.
 

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So, now the M5 is not fast enough?

Here's a car where you can barely use half of it's power without being thrown in jail and you're telling us it's not fast enough.

I guess those of you who are disapointed will be selling soon eh?

The true fanatics will still have their cars long after you're gone.
 

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Just an opinion, but unless you full throttle your M5 to almost 7000 revs, you will not feel much difference to lesser powered and lighter cars. If you were to compare the curves of the 540 and the M5, the M5 has a bit more power throughout the range, but the real advantage is where the 540 motor stops providing power and the M5 keeps going. It is not a new phenomenon when your "expert" feel does not agree with test results. And what do you all think, that a car which is 1 second faster in the quarter mile is going to leave the lesser car behind at a stop light race?

Just my opinion, though. Dan.
 

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Blue Max,

I've always complained that the M5 is not fast enough for me. That's why I'll be moving on to a 996TT when it arrives in about 18 months. Or maybe an M3 first and later move on to the 996TT.

I love the M5 and all and I respect the fact that it has marvelous power and a magnificent interior.. But I value performance over luxury (although I would not sacrifice too much luxury for performance). I think the 996 TT will be perfect for me.
 

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Kelvin, Good move, I am happy for you, and I hope they deliver quicker.

I can understand your disappointment with outright performance, but what did people expect from a 4000 pound car? The power/weight ratio is better than many of the cars people have mentioned, but not by much. I think the amazing thing is that they got the car to accelerate and handle as well as they did...

Dan
 

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I think some basic's got lost here. The M5 is the worlds greatest SEDAN. With that in mind the car has phenominal performance. The idea here is to be able to transport 4 people in luxuary without comprimising performance/driver enjoyment too much.That is why it is a 6 speed and also why a M5 wagon is sure to follow. The E55/XJR etc debates are appropriate.

Now if you are a performance nut and do not want to carry the family around then we have a different debate. 996TT, 360 Modena, or the rally cars, Mitsubishi Evo VI, Skyline GTR, Impressa Turbo.
For me (of course with the appropriate $) I would have the M5 as my everyday car, a Prodrive Evo for sheer grin factor and a 360 for the track/pulling fantastic women!

The M5 is designed not to give you the kneck snapping acceleration of a turbo. I think the new 996TT is too soft a GT car if you read the magazines the older Turbo's are the real animals

Nick
 

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Nwood,

Don't waste your time & key strokes. You basically have 2 camps here. The fanatics & the "me first crowd" who move to the latest & greatest in a heartbeat.

Enjoy!
 

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having both an m5 and a 360 Modena at my disposal (and my garage), id have to say that as far are sheer driving pleasure goes, the M5 wins. I can't drive the modena around without attracting WAY too much attention, and sadly it's not the everyday car that the 911 turbo was (dunno about the new ones, they all look terrible anyway). In all honesty, you can't drive the modena the way it wants to be driven unless you a) live in italy or b) dont plan on driving ever again and c) have kidneys of steel. stick with the m5. for 4000 pounds, it's the greatest combination of luxiry and ability you'll find.
 

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Blue Max,

I don't mean to be offensive, but this is really how I feel. I'm not exactly part of the "me first" crowd. I was really disappointed when I first set foot in the United States to find out that they had stopped bringing in the Supra Turbo, and the fact the Evo VI, the Skyline and The Subaru WRC is not available here. Left with limited choice, I thought that the M5 would give me a similar rocket feel as these cars would. If these cars were available, I doubt the M5 will be on my list.

I read the car reviews from Motor Trend, Car and Driver and Road and Track. They all claimed that the car was awfully fast, and one of the mags even claimed that you have to take it easy on the throttle, because if you go too hard on the throttle, the rear wheels will spin. this only happens in first gear..in my experience. The car is hardly powerful enough to lose it's traction on all other gears. I full throttle the car everyday and I just don't get the adrenelin rush as I did with the cars I owned previously. It was also not as spectacular as some of the magazines suggested, or as some of the people who posted on this messageboard saying that it matches a 911TT and a Viper.

The E39 is somewhat different from the E34. E34s, based on reading articles from this messageboard, are faster than the E36 M3s. this is not the case with the E39. In addition, there are loads of aftermarket upgrades for the E46 M3 as compared to the E39 M5..which will make the E39 M5 an everyday meal for the E46 M3.

I've tried to convince myself that the M5 I have is exclusive and it won't come in numbers like the E46 M3. This exclusivity viewpoint was also destroyed when BMW launched the 528i Sport. That is the reason why I was so upset, only that some of you guys don't understand where I'm coming from.

In my view, there's nothing that sets the M5 apart from other cars. It doesn't have killer performance, differentiated looks or exclusive luxury. Thanks to the considerate executives of BMW.

Forgive me for asking, you kept mentioning fanatics. What feature does the M5 have that the fanatics are so crazy about? Maybe you'll care to share it with me.
 

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Hi Kelvin,
U might be disappointed in the turbo as well. Nowadays these cars are so well enginered that unless u take them to the track speed u don't "feel" they are fast; Although they are really fast in reality. Maybe u should find some 964 turbos or earlier cars cause those are the ones that go & feel fast. This is why some of the collectors like classic muscles. I think u will be amazed.

Happy motoring,
ET
 

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Kelvin,
Why buy the M5 then? You could have saved a ton of $ and bought a rice rocket and jazzed it up.In my opinion the other cars you mentioned are not in the same catagory. Just close the door on any of those cars then think how it sounds and feels compared to the E39 (any model) Who cares if a 528 looks like an M5? I personally like the M5 because it looks like a 528/540 at a glance (steath potential). It definitly goes better and that's what counts in combination with the solid (too heavy maybe) feel. The sense of speed is perception. I've never felt like I'm going mach 0.8 in an airliner. A lot faster that the M5 but I FEEL faster in my car! Remember stock is stock. All the car mag's can't be lying. Just look at the numbers. There are only a hanfull of stock cars that can out perform the M5 anywhere in the world (no sedans!). It sounds like you've gotten used to the stellar performance of this incredible car. I feel sorry for you. That's my 2c worth.
BB
 

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Kelvin
i forgot this one, but definately the biggest rush I got was from the Lotus Seven HPC.

Wanna talk about the oppposite end of the spectrum from the M5, the Seven is it...but man if you want to go further get a Yamaha R1!!!
I like the fact it is "hidden" amongst the other 5 series that is what a 360 is for!

Nick
I think you maybe disappointed with the 996TT
 

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Kelvin,

I think it's easy to say that you do not understand what is wonderful with your M5 when you drive it everyday, without driving other cars.
Unfortunately humans are (well) done that you get WAY to quickly used to the feel of power, and that's why i(try) sometimes to exchange my M5 with my fathers' car to forget a little bit the power of the M5, and then when i take back my car i have a great adrenaline feeling.

Try to drive one of those Subarus or Supra you mentioned some weeks and you'll quickly understand what you like in your M5.
Try other cars in a long period before judging your own car.

Moreover, the appeal on a car is absolutely not only based on the simple feeling of acceleration and as an M5 owner you are not able to judge properly of the many advantages of the M5 over other cars..
 
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