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Discussion Starter #41
Oh wait, is that the LL-CAN for the idle actuators? The SMG talks to/with the DME and them. They are notated as LLS (leerlauft)
I think the L_CAN is something different.

I have my car back now....time for some experimenting. :nerd
 

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Discussion Starter #42 (Edited)
OK, I cut off all CAN comm between smg and DME and here's what I have:

0x2b57 emergencyprogram started
0xcdc3 smg can message 3 missing
0xcdc1 smg can message 1 missing
0xcdc2 smg can message 2 missing

for dme

0xcf0b local can bus OFF
0xcf27 message dme 3 missing
0xcf2a message motor data missing
0xcf2b message m-drive status missing

for smg

Unfortunately the faults don't say exactly what the messages are specifically. I'll have to look them up in ZEDIS and see exactly which messages they are....

Does anyone have a coding trace from DME? Then we could see if the L_CAN messages can be toggled to the PT_CAN like in the KOMBI.
 

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OK, I cut off all CAN comm between smg and DME and here's what I have:

0x2b57 emergencyprogram started
0xcdc3 smg can message 3 missing
0xcdc1 smg can message 1 missing
0xcdc2 smg can message 2 missing

for dme

0xcf0b local can bus OFF
0xcf27 message dme 3 missing
0xcf2a message motor data missing
0xcf2b message m-drive status missing

for smg

Unfortunately the faults don't say exactly what the messages are specifically. I'll have to look them up in ZEDIS and see exactly which messages they are....
I'm willing to bet that the SMG transmits info on 3 ArbIDs to distinguish priority and expects to see the DME reporting on it's 3rd ArbID as well as the "engine speed for other modules" output. The M-drive is actuated inside the DME as well on receipt of a CAN message.

These all look like the CAN messages you would expect for the full car bus, not PT-CAN. What did you disconnect exactly?

And do tell, WTH is ZEDIS?
 

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Does anyone have a coding trace from DME? Then we could see if the L_CAN messages can be toggled to the PT_CAN like in the KOMBI.

I've never seen any coding done in the DME. However, in the DAMOS/A2L I saw for the mss60 and mss65, there were numerous single byte (1x1) maps used to toggle options. Perhaps there is a toggle for which bus specific messages were transmitted on, but that would seem to be code bloat.
 

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is the E9X DCT the same one as the F10? price for a new DCT is high beyond the point of being worth the swap.

I have a mechanic here with a good history of putting the right parts in the wrong cars and have already reached out to him and shown him this thread. Ill keep checking here and referencing what we come up with when he gets a chance to take a peak.
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
Terminal 58G is simply a rheostat output voltage from the light switch dimmer that makes the interior illumination brighter or darker.

ZEDIS is a program which contains all information relevant to a specific bmw fault code in hex format. Conditions that trigger it, what the fault is, what it means, how to eliminate it/fix it, details on specific cases which involved the fault on other vehicles, etc. Its like a wikipedia page for any fault code you want to search for, the only issue is it is web based. It is maintained by the software/hardware developers who write the software for the control modules.

And the DCT trans is not the same as the F10 part. The case is similar, but the internals are completely different. That trans has gone though multiple design revisions since 2008 to handle varying weights/torque across the different BMW model range.
 

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There's a lot of good information in that document above. It is a high level description of the system, but gives some details showing some more of the obstacles to focus on. Noted so far:

- LIN Bus communication between GWS (gear shift) and DKG is for redundant communication of PT-CAN data.
- Rules out the notion that the E60 gear shift can be retained
- Drive logic switch consists of two simple grounding switches. Same as E60 to retain SMG trim piece?
- Possible to retain SMG surround so that power/DSC/EDC buttons/wiring modifications can be avoided?


Transmission oil cooler: There are two, oil to coolant and oil to air; receives coolant from a cylinder head to the cooler, then pumped back to the coolant system. This is used to warm up the DCT oil. Once the oil is above 203 degrees, oil thermostat directs oil flow to the oil/air cooler instead.]
- Need to identify controlling scheme for the coolant circulating pump. Is this from the DCT controller?
- Need to identify a location to to tap into S85 coolant system for coolant supply from engine for warm coolant as well as a return point.
- Custom coolant line fab likely required.
- some info from IND

- Oil Calibration routines: Something I hadn't considered until reading this, but just like SMG adaptation, DCT requires some similar functions. How to access these? Obviously DIS/ISTA are not an option. Will INPA allow calibration of DCT via E9x menus or error out before getting there. A custom INPA .IPS can be compiled to a standalone .IPO file dedicated for this, but will require some research.

- Significant number of KOMBI warning symbols not native to E6x KOMBI. Unknown what will display if anything when DCT signals these errors or what safety info will be provided. Worth pursuing E9x KOMBI retrofit? Note that the manual lists "check control message" with a 3 digit number. Perhaps these can be used in tracing?

- Random mention that the stock diff ratio is 3.154:1 for DCT. This changes the overall drive ratio back to very close to stock, somewhere in between an E60 with a 3.62 and a 3.91. Perhaps the ring and pinion for the M3 are compatible in the E60 housing? Anyone willing to contact a diff builder on this one?
SMGvsDCT rev2.jpg
 

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Gintani Has done this on there 1500whp E63 M6!!!
 

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Gintani Has done this on there 1500whp E63 M6!!!
As far as any real evidence has surfaced, Gintani is *planning* to do this on Tamirlan's M6 TT build. Along with a bunch of other dreamy cool stuff that seems above and beyond at this point. Not downplaying their ability by any means, but so far I haven't seen anything besides renderings and prototype pictures.
 

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As far as any real evidence has surfaced, Gintani is *planning* to do this on Tamirlan's M6 TT build. Along with a bunch of other dreamy cool stuff that seems above and beyond at this point. Not downplaying their ability by any means, but so far I haven't seen anything besides renderings and prototype pictures.
Nicely said Jim.
 

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OK, I cut off all CAN comm between smg and DME and here's what I have:

0x2b57 emergencyprogram started
0xcdc3 smg can message 3 missing
0xcdc1 smg can message 1 missing
0xcdc2 smg can message 2 missing

for dme

0xcf0b local can bus OFF
0xcf27 message dme 3 missing
0xcf2a message motor data missing
0xcf2b message m-drive status missing

for smg

Unfortunately the faults don't say exactly what the messages are specifically. I'll have to look them up in ZEDIS and see exactly which messages they are....

Does anyone have a coding trace from DME? Then we could see if the L_CAN messages can be toggled to the PT_CAN like in the KOMBI.

Disconnecting the PTCAN leads to errors as they are likely going through a handshake init procedure first. You need to leave them connected and use a CAN sniffer to capture all the back and forward data.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Sniffer is all set, just trying to determine a non-intrusive yet easy to access point to tap the wiring.
That is always the issue. They have the special removable wire piercing clamps that drives a thin needle through the wire insulation. Then you just clip to the contacts and remove them when you are done. Non intrusive and removable. Worthwhile investment when you do this often:



They are a bit expensive but you will have to shop around a bit to find the best price somewhere. I found these on Digikey but they are sold elsewhere and there are alternate brands available.

6405/POM Pomona Electronics | 501-1477-ND | DigiKey
 

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Discussion Starter #57 (Edited)
CAN sniffing will still be a tough venture as you will only see the structure of the messages, not their identities. We would need to start unplugging individual sensors to see what sensors correlate to which messages drop out. My initial thought of breaking the comm was thwarted by the fact that bmw has grouped these individual signals into "packages" on the CAN which adds a step of complexity. The identifier frames of the messages will obviously just be 1 or 0, but there will be a lot of manual work in matching the identifiers with what physical signal (sensor) they represent.

As far as tapping goes for tracing....at work we double crimp wire sets with a new terminal for all for all of our trace equipment. I highly advise against any cutting, poking or any other means of raw copper exposure which requires breaking the jacket of the wire.....
 

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I've been wanting to work on PT-CAN for something else anyway. Perhaps an engine harness, actuators, DME, DSC, and SMG on a test stand will be an easier start. Not running of course, but should allow some interpretation of handshakes, etc.
 

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CAN sniffing will still be a tough venture as you will only see the structure of the messages, not their identities. We would need to start unplugging individual sensors to see what sensors correlate to which messages drop out. My initial thought of breaking the comm was thwarted by the fact that bmw has grouped these individual signals into "packages" on the CAN which adds a step of complexity. The identifier frames of the messages will obviously just be 1 or 0, but there will be a lot of manual work in matching the identifiers with what physical signal (sensor) they represent.

As far as tapping goes for tracing....at work we double crimp wire sets with a new terminal for all for all of our trace equipment. I highly advise against any cutting, poking or any other means of raw copper exposure which requires breaking the jacket of the wire.....

What do you mean by packages? You mean multiple signals per byte string?
 

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Discussion Starter #60 (Edited)
What business does the SZL have with the DKG I wonder?

EDIT: Dumb question....steering position. ouich

What do you mean by packages? You mean multiple signals per byte string?
Precisely.

Message headers containing multiple identifiers in sets.

Example - "engine data", (0x2CFA) message is an identifier for all other engine related signals en mass.
 
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