[gmtegear]

Early 90s ECMs did not have wideband controllers, that’s very expensive and computationally expensive. They certainly still had fuel trims tho. It’s more of a mid 2000s system on higher end cars.

adaptations are one thing, that’s simply the LT and ST fuel trims in domestic speak. The question I present is is the commanded lambda for each bank or for the whole engine. Why alter the target lambda when one bank is spot on? Certainly there only needs to be a global table and map, but do the corrections to fueling happen at the bank level, thus unaffecting the other bank.

I only have recent calibration experience with inlines with one MAF, one MAP, and 1 hego/wideband. There the fueling was always global and no concern about power imbalance between 2 banks.

 

[yinblake]

Big update guys... @Logle had sent me a few used but working spark plugs, and injectors. I began by replacing spark plugs on 7 & 8 considering the reading for combustion quality was considerably high. Used plugs but good plugs. I installed turned the car on and all codes for the DME are gone. No check engine light and the car is idling smooth at 800 rpm. On cold start though the idle is all over the place but it is not throwing any codes....... I took the car out for a shake down run down the road. M mode on and kept it under 4k rpm the entire time. Came home. 6.2 mile drive, no codes at all. Amazing news. Waited a good few minutes because the car is not plated yet and realized I could not contain my excitement. I took it down to the highway. Got the car to 45 MPH in 3rd.. laid into it a bit. Just for a second up to 7k rpm.. Man you guys aren't kidding it pulls hard up top. But I went for a second pull.., here's where the problem lies. I was in 3rd gear pulling hard about to grab 4th and I was met with the ton of smoke behind the car. Put the car into neutral and rolled off the nearest exit and limped it home after the smoke subdued behind the car. What a scene it causes to say the least. NO codes popped up on the DME.. Does anyone else think an injector is hanging open under serious load? I have nothing to follow up now with no codes.

 

[yinblake]

Oh and @gmtegear you were mentioning maybe my coils weren't the right ones. Pulled all of them and I have 10 Pulse Power Train coils. And all seem to be firing but they have seen better days upon first loook. Pulse Power Train is actual BMW coils right?

 

[gmtegear]

Yep pulse power train is bmw.

sounds promising.

regarding your run did you have ISTA running on that screen? That’s what you need to be doing to have a chance of finding out if combustion and fueling is dropping out. It’s up to you of course.

I’d suspect you have a tune on the car based on the unknowns. If this was a production release and it did that it certainly should throw a code.

codes are really limited in helpfulness especially in these situations when you “run in to a hole”. This is kinda of a common occurrence when developing your own mapping.
Setting off a code every single time the engine went into some unknown/mis mapped place in the calibration would be a nightmare to solve and certainly no acceptable for production.

 

[yinblake]

@gmtegear so let’s say it’s not a stock tune... what’s my process in flashing the dme to stock? I need to start fresh and like everything else so far on this car. If I can’t verify it myself then I’m shouting myself in the foot.

 

[gmtegear]

Easy.

WinKFP + daten’s + reliable 13-14v power supply+ bimmergeeks cable.

lots of threads on that.

but I’d run the car and monitor in INPA or do a screen recorder program. Also you can run testo, but you have to figure out what you want parameters to log and that’s less plug and play. Running a screen recorder on INPA is quick and dirty. You can chose to record sound which can pixk

 

[//Martuci]

did you try swiping injectors? bad combustion on number 8 again.. nod good sign . try to swap or give them for inspection to be sure of their condition. When I bought my car first things to change with the bearings were spark plugs and injectors.

 

[desmo01]

Generally it would be by bank. I do know of some games being played using a bank sensor to do individual cylinders but that's really at idle due to bandwidth of the lambda sensors.

 

[yinblake]

@//Martuci no I did not swap injectors. I have used but working units sent to me from another board member. I will swap them out to test if flashing the dme doesn’t work. I’m still holding close to the plan that the car needs a full tune up. New spark plugs, injectors, and coil packs. Then I can say I’m at my wits end unless it’s a compression related issue. Then I’d be calling up Troy from down the road to take the car to build it.

 

[yinblake]

@gmtegear i will take the car out tomorrow afternoon and monitor INPA on the misfire screen. I will also look into how to use the tools I have to flash the dme stock. I will report back with whatever info I find.

 

[flacoramos]

You're overthinking this. Basics first. Plugs are $6 a piece so not even worth shipping used ones. Get new ones. Swap coils and ionic module. Try again. If codes/issues swap injectors. Then it gets more serious. Dme flash? Lol...

That's what I'd do. To each their own.

@GM I said on V engines trimming is done per bank. Wide or narrowband is irrelevant.

 

[yinblake]

You're overthinking this. Basics first. Plugs are $6 a piece so not even worth shipping used ones. Get new ones. Swap coils and ionic module. Try again. If codes/issues swap injectors. Then it gets more serious. Dme flash? Lol...

I bet I am overthinking. I already ordered new plugs. A board member just sent them because he had seen the picture of the fouled plugs. Along with some good brake pads, all it did by swapping in a used one was prove my theory. And is more so proving my theory that the car needs a real tune up with new injectors and spark plugs and coils. Only then will I be flashing the dme. It only seems weird to me that I’m getting crazy smoking wayyyyy up in the rpm range, 6,750-8k rpm. Anything less than that and I can drive it just fine..,

I’m starting with plugs either way. They’ll be here Sunday, thank you amazon.

I have now 4 ionic modules. I’m sure I’ll find two that both work fine.

 

[gmtegear]

Take your time, these cars can be frustrating but it’s just a machine. Owning one or more of these will require perseverance and a budget. Most of us understand that you’ve got 2 young kids and a wife, and school. This car is like a dog- always hungry.

all of the things you’ve done so far are relatively easy. Yours is a good story of someone else who gave up but not know what all had happened prior and his/her financial situation in these times. Generally these cars that you pick up for this cheap will require more than just plugs, coils, and a battery. Ppl recommended the same simple things to desmo1 on his, turned out to be abit more involved.

The fact that it was commanding a spark and no misfire code at all is odd too. plugs don’t tend to just quit working during certain RPM and loading conditions even if they are oily and fouled. regardless you can see all that in real time with INPA.

All of this continuing to occur, especially when you let off...this is 90% what you’d want to do along with wasted spark to get a pop and burble effect. There are tunes out there that do this, it’s easy to mess it up though and burn out your cats.

 

[yinblake]

Take your time, these cars can be frustrating but it’s just a machine. Owning one or more of these will require perseverance and a budget. Most of us understand that you’ve got 2 young kids and a wife, and school. This car is like a dog- always hungry.

Well I found out today at work I’m off for 14 days for contact tracing for COVID so that hurts with the holidays coming up, but I absolutely feel lucky getting this car for so cheap and it running well, I mean swapping ignition parts and fuel system IS easy. The car needs new brakes, but given what I started with.. it could have been much worse. I’ll walk through the ignition system part by part in sets of 10. Least thing I can do for peace of mind. I will keep you guys updated.

I cannot express how greatful I am for all you guys for lending a hand each post with advice or diagnosis. I would not be this far without you and I will update when I get to the next step.

 

[gmtegear]

@GM I said on V engines trimming is done per bank. Wide or narrowband is irrelevant.

you did say that and not much more. At least you didn’t mention more silliness about X/H pipes having no effect somehow because of uneven firing intervals, but I’m sure you still have your doubts.

But that’s not what my question was nor was that in dispute. I only ponder this because yinblake’s issue is interesting to me. BTW not all V engines have an O2 sensor for each bank, especially older systems that have a converged collector.

NB systems have a very limited measurement range outside of stoic and they act as essentially like a binary switch. WB systems have fundamentally changed everything and that’s why we can generate so much more power, improve fuel economy and emissions. NB was primitive by today’s standards but this is 80’s tech. 90’s systems were more advanced but still hampered by processing power and RAM. yes they did have fuel trims although ST and LT trims came along later. If there were was an O2 sensor per bank then it certainly could have its own set of trims.

BMW’s original v12 (M70?) had 2 separate ECUs, one for each bank. It was too tough to build 1 ECU to drive both banks, that’s how hard things were back then. That was a true supercar.

Simply have having trims per bank doesn’t address the question I posed about how the ECM thinks about the relative difference in lambda on two separate banks. I’m sure it is a big factor that commands limp mode, but I will ask my old coworker.

 

[gmtegear]

I cannot express how greatful I am for all you guys for lending a hand each post with advice or diagnosis. I would not be this far without you and I will update when I get to the next step.

It’s a joy to seeing others save these cars from being otherwise parted out. It requires time and patience, but it’s a great family sedan. Keep telling wifey it’s cheaper than a Honda Accord. I picked up my 3rd about this time last year, it was my first running SMG. I paid about 1500 more than you, but mine was an 08 running and driving clear title and had 127k miles on orignal bearings and dying clutch (plus a bunch of other little things that add up). Seller was very forthright and realistic on its value. His mechanic offered him 4500, which seems to be the right number for non runners or ones needing major work like bearings and clutch. The bearings on this FL car were pretty good actually, but it was long overdue.

 

[Emfiver]

Apologies if you mentioned this (it’s a long thread) but what colour is the cloud of smoke?

It sounds like you accelerate hard (so high throttle %, high load) up to 7,000+ rpm and then you quickly let off? Or are you changing gear? And the big smoke cloud appears. When that happens is it still triggering reduced power mode and/or misfire codes? Again, forgive me if this info is in here, I’m just trying to get a sense of where you’re up to now.

 

[yinblake]

@Emfiver the car is blowing smoke when hard on the throttle and letting off. Not between shifts. It produces no codes to follow up on. And it’s hard to tell the color of smoke with 5% tint and tinted mirrors. I think it’s white smoke

 

[Emfiver]

Ok, apart from looking at fuel delivery I’d check out the vacuum lines + crankcase ventilation. At high rpm and then letting off there’s a spike in crankcase pressure. If there’s a problem in that system it could cause smoke.

 

[SunglassesGuy]

Hey guys - I'm doing plugs and injectors on my 2009 right now. the coils are "era Power Train" - at least on the rubber boot at the top. the only other marking is BMW. also on top rubber seal.