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This was hard to watch.

My executive summery:

A 4k [lb] V8 sport sedan isn't a Lotus Elan or an S65 AMG so its undrivable. Also the internet says it has carbon build up so the car will never make it to a destination.

I do agree its not the first car I would pick for a 10ft wide crumbling serpentine road, unless I had 2-3 people and their luggage with me. Also if we are being honest, the Getrag 420 isn't the best shift action, and the recirculating ball steering is a bit vague and slushy. Not enough negatives to dethrone it as one of the best.
 

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Like Jason. Can't stand that other guy. Until Alfa offers the Guila Quad with a manual gearbox and a proper handbrake, the E39 M5 remains the best available sports sedan IMO.
 

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Hard to watch was an understatement. I could not get through it, but I did get a couple of points. I guess they will let anyone do pod casts, does not matter how experienced they are or what they know. Just going to say weight transfer, is not really the car, it is the driver. Compounded by the fact one thought auto tranny was better, not, downshifting helps you control weight transfer. Every car has different characteristics, it is up to the driver to figure them out and adjust his/her driving style for the car. Some complain about understeer on this car, but change your braking/driving a little and that goes away. Shaking my head in disbelief.
 

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I mean, fundamentally, they are not wrong - but this has to be evaluated in an applicable environment for this particular car use. I totally agree with Jason (my first time watching this show, and the other guy is mightily awkward, wtf?), its not enough negatives for this car NOT to be what many consider it to be.
 

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Manual transmission doesn't belong in the E39, HA, ok. Maybe it's not as good an experience in a manual 530i, but it sure is in the M5 (although agree it's chunky when cold and could use some tightening up). I've driven a manual 530i and it was not even close to the experience driving an E46 330i with the manual. They are different cars, set up differently, different weights but personally, I'd prefer a manual transmission in ANY car over an automatic. This is why BMW brought the manual tranny to the E60 M5 when it wasn't there from the start.
 

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Manual transmission doesn't belong in the E39, HA, ok. Maybe it's not as good an experience in a manual 530i, but it sure is in the M5 (although agree it's chunky when cold and could use some tightening up). I've driven a manual 530i and it was not even close to the experience driving an E46 330i with the manual. They are different cars, set up differently, different weights but personally, I'd prefer a manual transmission in ANY car over an automatic. This is why BMW brought the manual tranny to the E60 M5 when it wasn't there from the start.
BMW brought MT to E60 only in USA, because americans were the only ones that asked for it, and BMW had the box already. I know it is not a popular opinion, but that S85 is not made for a manual. Same with F10 in fact.
 
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BMW brought MT to E60 only in USA, because americans were the only ones that asked for it, and BMW had the box already. I know it is not a popular opinion, but that S85 is not made for a manual. Same with F10 in fact.
I totally agree with you. But still, I'd prefer the manual to the automatic, and at least as many other Americans did too or they would not have made them.
 

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I totally agree with you. But still, I'd prefer the manual to the automatic, and at least as many other Americans did too or they would not have made them.
Exactly. E39 M5 would've been fine with a competent slush box, but it's fantastic with 3 pedals because it is the correct amount of involvement. If you want a conventional auto in a comparable car, a 540iA M Sport, or W210 E55 is it.
 

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I wouldn't own an E39 M5 if it wasn't available with a manual.

I've owned multiple M5s and 530is and frankly the gearbox in the M5 (IMO) is superior. All it needs is a e60 shifter.
 

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I agree with both of them. The E39 M5 in near stock form is a good cruiser that feels nice to drive lazily, but is pretty meh when pushing it. In fact I find it discourages pushing it hard. It feels like it wants me to slow down extra for turns, shift before redline, brake lazily, not bother with heel toe downshifting, and shift slowly … just the character of the car. My (heavily modified) E46 M3 is the polar opposite of all of the above.

I still love it and take it out far more than my M3 because most of the time, I don’t want to be egged on by my car to drive like a maniac, and just want to drive something with satisfying tactile and sensory feedback. But sports car experience in a sedan the car is not.
 

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This might sound harsh, but BMW sucks at sports cars. Their bread and butter are sport sedans. Even the E46 M3 - I owned one and never got along with it. It's not a sports car. Too big and heavy, steering lacking feel, cheap floating caliper brakes, etc. The M5 is the same, it's better at the sedan part. In other words, I've forced myself to judge the car for what it is. There's much true to the assertion that these cars leave something to be desired in the dynamics department. Hell, I can't even stay in my seat during hard cornering. Way to flat and lacking lateral support. Comfy on long trips though which is what this car is all about. Until Porsche makes a sedan with a real manual or Alfa gives us a manual in the quad (both are not gonna happen), the E39 M5 is the best option for those of us who want a fast, well made, sports sedan with a manual. And it's durable too.
 

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I agree with both of them. The E39 M5 in near stock form is a good cruiser that feels nice to drive lazily, but is pretty meh when pushing it. In fact I find it discourages pushing it hard. It feels like it wants me to slow down extra for turns, shift before redline, brake lazily, not bother with heel toe downshifting, and shift slowly … just the character of the car. My (heavily modified) E46 M3 is the polar opposite of all of the above.

I still love it and take it out far more than my M3 because most of the time, I don’t want to be egged on by my car to drive like a maniac, and just want to drive something with satisfying tactile and sensory feedback. But sports car experience in a sedan the car is not.
This is almost the polar opposite take of what I feel about my E39 M5. It's not a heavily modified E46 M3, nor was meant to be, so why are you even comparing the two?

"meh when pushing it" - this is not a kia or honda fit!!!!

"discourages pushing it hard" - are you 100% CERTAIN you actually have an E39 M5?? LOL all this car does is CONSTANTLY BEG ME TO PUSH IT HARD.

"shift before redline" - probably because when you look at the revs and feel like shifting, your mind is blown that there are still 2K more RPM's to go before redline.

Back to the primary topic, yes, M5 is the best sports sedan ever, hands down, and it shows itself to the R34 here in this new Carwow vid. I giggled when it got to the part with the rolling start at 50mph in 3rd gear, before they even took off.

 

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This is almost the polar opposite take of what I feel about my E39 M5. It's not a heavily modified E46 M3, nor was meant to be, so why are you even comparing the two?
They're the two cars I currently own? Sorry if the comparison offends you. One is confidence inspiring at the limit on the track, the other I can understeer driving like a relatively sane person on the street, has squishy brakes with minimal feel, and rolls over on itself around a corner. I don't even think those are bad things for what the car is to me (a very good daily driver) but it is what it is.

"meh when pushing it" - this is not a kia or honda fit!!!!

"discourages pushing it hard" - are you 100% CERTAIN you actually have an E39 M5?? LOL all this car does is CONSTANTLY BEG ME TO PUSH IT HARD.

"shift before redline" - probably because when you look at the revs and feel like shifting, your mind is blown that there are still 2K more RPM's to go before redline.
7k RPM is not a high redline. When I first got the car I constantly found myself bouncing off the limiter surprised there wasn't more. It wants to shift before redline because in stock form power drops off after 6k RPM thanks to the 540i headers. On the other hand my carbon airbox E46 makes more and more power all the way up to 8200 RPM. That's the car that begs me to drive it harder. The E39 is my sedate cruiser.

Back to the primary topic, yes, M5 is the best sports sedan ever, hands down, and it shows itself to the R34 here in this new Carwow vid. I giggled when it got to the part with the rolling start at 50mph in 3rd gear, before they even took off.

I don't really find drag races or excess torque to be the definition of "sports car" or really that exciting so maybe that's why I have my opinion and you have yours.
 

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This might sound harsh, but BMW sucks at sports cars. Their bread and butter are sport sedans. Even the E46 M3 - I owned one and never got along with it. It's not a sports car. Too big and heavy, steering lacking feel, cheap floating caliper brakes, etc. The M5 is the same, it's better at the sedan part. In other words, I've forced myself to judge the car for what it is. There's much true to the assertion that these cars leave something to be desired in the dynamics department. Hell, I can't even stay in my seat during hard cornering. Way to flat and lacking lateral support. Comfy on long trips though which is what this car is all about. Until Porsche makes a sedan with a real manual or Alfa gives us a manual in the quad (both are not gonna happen), the E39 M5 is the best option for those of us who want a fast, well made, sports sedan with a manual. And it's durable too.
Drive a Z3 M Coupe w/S54 then tell me BMW sucks at sports cars. Or a 1M Coupe. Or an M2 CS. Or a Z4M Coupe for that matter. You just haven't driven a proper BMW sports car.
 

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Drive a Z3 M Coupe w/S54 then tell me BMW sucks at sports cars. Or a 1M Coupe. Or an M2 CS. Or a Z4M Coupe for that matter. You just haven't driven a proper BMW sports car.
100% agree they make (or used to make) the best practical sports cars you can live with everyday. In the same car you can, take a (comfortable) multi-day road trip, pick elderly people up at the airport, and do a HPDE/track day all in a competent machine. I also appreciate the understated design/styling, one of the best things about the E39 M5 is you can actually drive fast without drawing undo attention, these days it is definitely beneath the radar. Plenty of other hard edged machines with more performance and driver feedback, but very few one car solutions with less compromise.
 

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"discourages pushing it hard" - are you 100% CERTAIN you actually have an E39 M5?? LOL all this car does is CONSTANTLY BEG ME TO PUSH IT HARD.
Have you driven E46 M3? I have both and there is night and day difference how much more the M3 just beggs to be revved. Obviously M5 is fun to push to the redline, but I can't say it begs or even necessarely needs it most of the time because of the torque, unlike the M3 which acts like a diva and desperately begs to be pushed hard. M5's sorta old school compliant V8 has it's own kinda fun with the torque imo and I might even prefer it to the M3.
 
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