BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

21 - 40 of 59 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Nice!

I was looking at a white E63 S with the carbon fiber exterior package that was on my local MB dealer's lot. It was a very sharp looking car. I still like the aesthetics (interior and exterior) of the F10 M5 better.

I agree the M5 lacks in the exhaust department but that was resolved by putting on Supersprint race mufflers and AMS catted downpipes (total cost was under $5K). I have a little more induction sound as well with same carbon fiber intakes similar to Gruppe M (cost $2K). What really sold me on the M5 was the looks, the DCT and how rev happy the engine still is even with turbos. I always tailor my cars to my individual tastes so some of the M5's shortcomings I have addressed (modified exhaust and I even did thicker anti-roll bars).

You can't go wrong with either car. The E63 S is a great car and is very appealling.
I agree that the M5 is better looking than the E63 S. The E63 S is good looking enough to me but not as much as the M5. The engine, AWD, acceleration performance, greater tuning potential and engine and exhaust noise sold me on the E63 S -- a wrenching decision after a lifetime of BMW ownership.

Mercedes of Massapequa, in my metro area, has two killer white 2014 E63 S cars in dealer stock -- one a wagon with B&O and one sedan. They have the blacked out stuff as I recall. They look sharp as hell. But I am not a white car guy so I ordered my 2015 E63 S sedan in Lunar Blue. Every E63 I see is black, white or silver. I wanted to look different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
for me it was between a Red/ Black MY15 E60s or White/Shakir Orange MY14 M5.. The M5 won due to the appearance and the fun factor. But the E63 is fast as hell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Both are great cars!

Remember, you are in a BMW forum, so expect some favortism towards the bimmer. That being said, I like them both, but IF I had to only drive one on a daily basis, I'll choose the E63S due to its overall greater daily flexibility. Meaning, AWD, great power and luxury.

My personal experiences with both M and AMG cars stock vs. stock has been...
M-cars:
Better overall driving dynamic...it moves with you - better feedback
Better for S-turns and twisties
Better road race cars
Good braking power

AMG-cars:
Better drag racer
Better sounding V8
AMG motors seems more realiable overall
Better overall luxury
Better cruiser - softer ride

Cost to mod seems to be roughly the same for both cars, but in the end, the AMG seems to respond much better to tunes and exhaust mods. The AMG needs suspension mods to touch the M excellent off the showroom floor real-world day-to-day handling capabilities.

There are other little nic nac things here and there, but overall, the above differences takes the cake for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Both are great cars!

Remember, you are in a BMW forum, so expect some favortism towards the bimmer. That being said, I like them both, but IF I had to only drive one on a daily basis, I'll choose the E63S due to its overall greater daily flexibility. Meaning, AWD, great power and luxury.

My personal experiences with both M and AMG cars stock vs. stock has been...
M-cars:
Better overall driving dynamic...it moves with you - better feedback
Better for S-turns and twisties
Better road race cars
Good braking power

AMG-cars:
Better drag racer
Better sounding V8
AMG motors seems more realiable overall
Better overall luxury
Better cruiser - softer ride

Cost to mod seems to be roughly the same for both cars, but in the end, the AMG seems to respond much better to tunes and exhaust mods. The AMG needs suspension mods to touch the M excellent off the showroom floor real-world day-to-day handling capabilities.

There are other little nic nac things here and there, but overall, the above differences takes the cake for me.
Thanks. I actually posted on both a Merc and BMW forum because I knew I would get bias feedback.

Your breakdown seems very consistent from what Ive read so far. The thing that amazes me about the M is no tuner has been able to crack the ECU. The Merc guys are getting crazy numbers from just a tune. But your right that is only part of the story, the handling is a little more important to me as I enjoy corners very much. The engine in the Merc seems to be a better overall engine, the exhaust note is better but the handling and transmission are better in the the M. Interior wise is sort of subjective. When I sit in both cars the M feels so much bigger. I like the Merc seats and the simplicity of the controls but I like the HUD and tech in the M.

At this point I havent driven both yet but I am leaning towards the Merc. Partly because I want to try something new. Ill go drive both and see how I feel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Thanks. I actually posted on both a Merc and BMW forum because I knew I would get bias feedback.

Your breakdown seems very consistent from what Ive read so far. The thing that amazes me about the M is no tuner has been able to crack the ECU. The Merc guys are getting crazy numbers from just a tune. But your right that is only part of the story, the handling is a little more important to me as I enjoy corners very much. The engine in the Merc seems to be a better overall engine, the exhaust note is better but the handling and transmission are better in the the M. Interior wise is sort of subjective. When I sit in both cars the M feels so much bigger. I like the Merc seats and the simplicity of the controls but I like the HUD and tech in the M.

At this point I havent driven both yet but I am leaning towards the Merc. Partly because I want to try something new. Ill go drive both and see how I feel.

Good deal!

By all means brother, do as much research as possible...this is a big decision, and an expensive one at that. ;)

You're right, as far as interior layouts, subjectivity plays a big role – in general, I feel that BMW tries to find easy ways to make things hard...some things just looks over engineered. In comparison, Mercedes keeps it simple and straight forward...more user friendly...even their owner’s manual is easier to follow. :biggrin:

Handling wise, yes, the M hands down is much better. But remember, BMW’s in general, especially the M cars are dedicated more towards handling vs. overall comfort…comfort wise, Mercedes takes the prize. You can always lower the E63 and gain better overall handling, but with a little ride stiffness penalty…not too bad though. :blink:

Tuning wise thus far, yes, the Mercedes boys are doing great things over there. Again, I go back to my previous comment, BMW for some reason has to make things harder. However, tuners will eventually crack the safe…it is a similar battle going on with the new 991 911 TT/TTS P-cars. :M5thumbs:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
Thanks. I actually posted on both a Merc and BMW forum because I knew I would get bias feedback.

Your breakdown seems very consistent from what Ive read so far. The thing that amazes me about the M is no tuner has been able to crack the ECU. The Merc guys are getting crazy numbers from just a tune. But your right that is only part of the story, the handling is a little more important to me as I enjoy corners very much. The engine in the Merc seems to be a better overall engine, the exhaust note is better but the handling and transmission are better in the the M. Interior wise is sort of subjective. When I sit in both cars the M feels so much bigger. I like the Merc seats and the simplicity of the controls but I like the HUD and tech in the M.

At this point I havent driven both yet but I am leaning towards the Merc. Partly because I want to try something new. Ill go drive both and see how I feel.
The F10 M5 ECU has been cracked. My tuner certainly has & i believe in the US Dinan have as well. Mine is just shy of 700bhp & 570lbsft. Having a few minor changes to the code in a week so the torque should rise a little.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
The F10 M5 ECU has been cracked. My tuner certainly has & i believe in the US Dinan have as well. Mine is just shy of 700bhp & 570lbsft. Having a few minor changes to the code in a week so the torque should rise a little.
Dinan has not cracked the F10 M5's ECU. That is why they are offering a Dinantronics piggyback tune.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
How on earth would you compare the handling of the M5 with the dumb steering in the E63? Comparing these two vehicles on an M5 Board is sacrilegious
!

PS I have owned both. No comparison. None.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
How on earth would you compare the handling of the M5 with the dumb steering in the E63? Comparing these two vehicles on an M5 Board is sacrilegious
!

PS I have owned both. No comparison. None.
Thanks for the info. Beyond the handling and steering what makes the M ( in your mind ) so much better? Did you own a W212 with the Bi-turbo V8 or the NA 6.3?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
I had the 2010 E63 AMG NA model. Absolutely beautiful car with huge torque and a magical exhaust note but way too much understeer. Then I test drove the 2012 CLS AMG and I could not believe what they did to it. The electric steering was horrible. I left the MB dealer as fast as I could, went down the street and ordered the 2012 F10 M5 (the second M5 I've owned). Yes MB may have it on sheer grunt but the road feel and handling of the M5 is far superior. It depends on what you are looking for I guess. For me no comparison.

I'm in the market for a new car next spring and I have not found anything better than the M5 yet. Going to test drive the RS7 but I don't have high hopes because of the transmission, which I have heard is slow relative to the M5 double clutch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
I had the 2010 E63 AMG NA model. Absolutely beautiful car with huge torque and a magical exhaust note but way too much understeer. Then I test drove the 2012 CLS AMG and I could not believe what they did to it. The electric steering was horrible. I left the MB dealer as fast as I could, went down the street and ordered the 2012 F10 M5 (the second M5 I've owned). Yes MB may have it on sheer grunt but the road feel and handling of the M5 is far superior. It depends on what you are looking for I guess. For me no comparison.

I'm in the market for a new car next spring and I have not found anything better than the M5 yet. Going to test drive the RS7 but I don't have high hopes because of the transmission, which I have heard is slow relative to the M5 double clutch.
Yeah the RS7 is a beast for sure but yeah the tranny is a not on the same level as the M. Interior will be better in the Audi, AWD is a nice option for putting down all that power. Looks are completely subjective of course. I like the look of it but I know its a turn off for many.

Thanks for the info on your experience with your MBs. I really like the look of the M5, the handling is much better and it has better technology. I need to go drive the E63 and see what it feels like. Ive owned Audi, (still do) MB and BMW (E60 M5) and have liked all 3. The new electric steering in the Audi drives me crazy but my wife likes the feel of it, so if the E63 is similar it could be a deal killer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Yeah the RS7 is a beast for sure but yeah the tranny is a not on the same level as the M. Interior will be better in the Audi, AWD is a nice option for putting down all that power. Looks are completely subjective of course. I like the look of it but I know its a turn off for many.

Thanks for the info on your experience with your MBs. I really like the look of the M5, the handling is much better and it has better technology. I need to go drive the E63 and see what it feels like. Ive owned Audi, (still do) MB and BMW (E60 M5) and have liked all 3. The new electric steering in the Audi drives me crazy but my wife likes the feel of it, so if the E63 is similar it could be a deal killer.
The steering is less numb if you opt for the Performance pkg.

Remember, the E63 is really built more towards cruising duties while the M5 is more more track focused.

I like them both, the M5 does feel more secured around the twisties and high speed curves and give you more road feedback while the E63 will feel really silky smooth and taking you and the wife to dinner a la "rico - suave" with endless torque.

It all depends on what you want. Bottom line, simple summary -the M5 rides harder and the E63 rides softer.

I look at it like this (during his prime):
M5 = Mike Tyson in boxing gear
E63 = Mike Tyson in a tuxedo
*dressed either way, Mike Tyson could provide a heck of a punch, but he'll move better w/o the tux...get it?*

Which way do want your Mike Tyson?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
Are you running a piggy back or is the ECU actually tuned?
Mine is a physical ECU tune. Took about 8hrs to amend the relevant lines of code & still a couple of hours to fine tune the remap applied a few weeks ago. I'd not touch a tuning box or piggy back tune with a barge pole on an F10 M5. Fine for a 320d but not an £80k motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
Dinan has not cracked the F10 M5's ECU. That is why they are offering a Dinantronics piggyback tune.
That's even better so perhaps is only 1 tuner who are doing actual ECU remaps. For some reason i assumed Dinan had also cracked the ECU & with them being perceived as premium tuner i'm somewhat shocked they're only offering a piggyback tune but hey ho, i bet they charge a ridiculous premium for their Tuning box.

As per above, i'd not dare risk such a tuning method on a high value vehicle, but that's down to my personal opinion/taste.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
FWIW, the DINANTRONICS Stage 2 software update brings the F10 CP to 708 HP & 651 TRQ. Admittedly not cheap but passes emissions & no warrantee hassles.
Is that 651lbsft or nm? Am assuming it's lbsft in which case one hell of a hike in torque. Mine's 691bhp & 605lbsft but both should rise a little next week as she's having a few minor tweaks to the code:flag:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts
Is that 651lbsft or nm? Am assuming it's lbsft in which case one hell of a hike in torque. Mine's 691bhp & 605lbsft but both should rise a little next week as she's having a few minor tweaks to the code:flag:

It's lb-ft or ft-lb if you prefer. Definitely not nm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,222 Posts
It's lb-ft or ft-lb if you prefer. Definitely not nm.
What other modifications has the car got other than the Stage 2 software? I'm assuming being stage 2 the car will have an after market exhaust, downpipes & intakes? Are they all part of the Dinan stage 2?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,022 Posts
What other modifications has the car got other than the Stage 2 software? I'm assuming being stage 2 the car will have an after market exhaust, downpipes & intakes? Are they all part of the Dinan stage 2?

The only non-Dinan part is the Akrapovic exhaust. It has Dinan cold air intakes. Nothing has been done to the down pipes or cats. I posted Dinan's dyno charts in my Dinan Post.
 
21 - 40 of 59 Posts
Top