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Discussion Starter #1
Guys,

A bit of a dilemma and I'd love to hear your views. For the last year I've had my 2000 Beast, I've done a mixture of cosmetic and performance mods. For example, I've done a complete 2001+ facelift (Euro AEs, rear Celis tails, 16x9 widescreed + DVD NAV, steering wheel), upgraded the exhaust to Supersprints with X-pipe, and put in a CAI. The remainder of my planned budget had gone to getting a fresh set of Pilots, an extra set of OEM rims with designated winter Pirelli WinterSport tires (for the handful of days I am actually brave/stupid enough to take it outside), purchasing extended warranty, and general maintenance (Inspection II, diff seals, etc.)

Well, once the mod bug bites, it rarely let's go, so I am thinking of my next mods. One will very likely be a Powerchip. I have not done it yet, because I am considering either adding Supersprint Headers (for which I will need a re-flash from Powerchip), or for that $ amount (more or less) throwing in a front 14’ Brembo Gran Turismo brake kit. I've had Brembos on my previous Benz (oh no, traitor!) and I have to say this is the one department that it was superior to the M5.

I am involved in decent stop and go traffic, around NYC there are always 'close calls', particularly when you decide to drive 'aggressively', however I don't see myself actively tracking it (so street performance pads pretty much). So the questions is, considering that the cost is more or less equal (with install, headers are more expensive), for the money, which route should I follow?

I realize this might be a weird question and can be answered with another question: ‘what do I want to be: quicker, or stop quicker?’ In the long run, it is very likely I will do both, but the question is what do I start with so I get the best 'bang' and enjoyment in the medium term.

Cheers
 

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cosioboy said:
Guys,

A bit of a dilemma and I'd love to hear your views. For the last year I've had my 2000 Beast, I've done a mixture of cosmetic and performance mods. For example, I've done a complete 2001+ facelift (Euro AEs, rear Celis tails, 16x9 widescreed + DVD NAV, steering wheel), upgraded the exhaust to Supersprints with X-pipe, and put in a CAI. The remainder of my planned budget had gone to getting a fresh set of Pilots, an extra set of OEM rims with designated winter Pirelli WinterSport tires (for the handful of days I am actually brave/stupid enough to take it outside), purchasing extended warranty, and general maintenance (Inspection II, diff seals, etc.)

Well, once the mod bug bites, it rarely let's go, so I am thinking of my next mods. One will very likely be a Powerchip. I have not done it yet, because I am considering either adding Supersprint Headers (for which I will need a re-flash from Powerchip), or for that $ amount (more or less) throwing in a front 14’ Brembo Gran Turismo brake kit. I've had Brembos on my previous Benz (oh no, traitor!) and I have to say this is the one department that it was superior to the M5.

I am involved in decent stop and go traffic, around NYC there are always 'close calls', particularly when you decide to drive 'aggressively', however I don't see myself actively tracking it (so street performance pads pretty much). So the questions is, considering that the cost is more or less equal (with install, headers are more expensive), for the money, which route should I follow?

I realize this might be a weird question and can be answered with another question: ‘what do I want to be: quicker, or stop quicker?’ In the long run, it is very likely I will do both, but the question is what do I start with so I get the best 'bang' and enjoyment in the medium term.

Cheers
If you are not going to track the car, headers win hands down. You get about 30 or so rear wheel horsepower. Bigger brakes might stop the car a little quicker, but once you can lock them up, you have reached maximum stopping power. Bigger brakes help on the track where repeated hard use can lead to fade. Not usually a problem on the street, even under moderatley hard street driving.
I do have front BBK, but that is in preparation for the track. On the street, I haven't noticed any difference in stopping power.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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The Brembo kit is not neccessary for your situation. You say that you will not track the car, and most of your driving is in traffic or urban congestion. An aftermarket brake kit will not reduce stopping distances. It will eliminate fade from heavy braking applications when combined with proper pads. The stock brakes are great for street and light track duty.

As for the headers and software. I would say beware. As I posted in a recent thread, modifying the M5 is an expensive and difficult process. The car is already extremely capable, and tuned very well from the factory. The cost and increases in performance, or lack thereof, are appearent. I've heard multiple owners who have heavily modified motors say that if they were to do it again, they would have left it stock.

At the end of the day its your money, but this is my take. Were not talking about a 996TT, 1.8T A4 or E55, cars that have enormous modifying potential.

Travis
 

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M5Kid said:
As for the headers and software. I would say beware. As I posted in a recent thread, modifying the M5 is an expensive and difficult process. The car is already extremely capable, and tuned very well from the factory. The cost and increases in performance, or lack thereof, are appearent. I've heard multiple owners who have heavily modified motors say that if they were to do it again, they would have left it stock.



Travis
Well, when it comes to headers, I have to disagree. Adding headers ( and perhaps UD pulleys at the same time) transformed the car. It is 30 or so rear wheel horspower and you can feel it. The car revs easier, and pulls harder in 6th than it used to pull in 5th.
If you are talking about trying to get huge gains, then I do agree, as you note there is much less tuning availability for normally aspirated cars and big gains on our cars are $$$$$$$$$.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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Headers and powerchip combined give you close to a 10% power increase.

Brembos will not stop you any faster but are good for the bling factor.

What is most important to you? kinggf
 

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THe brembo brakes are not really ment to be done without the rears, so really that only leaves the headers.

If you want the front only brakes I say get the stoptechs.

If you want to win at a redlight I say get the headers, cars are getting alot faster and alot cheaper.
 

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since this is a street car, you could argue that you don't need either really. Initially, i was going to say headers of course. Most performance bang for the buck, but does a 400hp car really need 30hp. The brakes offer performance and look great, lets face it the stock m5 brakes look crappy. THe only downside for your situation is wheels. Stock wheels won't clear the brembos without spacers, i think (maybe i'm wrong), so if you do brakes, you'll probably want wheels too!
The headers offer performance and great sound, unfortunately, you can't see them!
Mike
 

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M5Kid said:
The Brembo kit is not neccessary for your situation. You say that you will not track the car, and most of your driving is in traffic or urban congestion. An aftermarket brake kit will not reduce stopping distances. It will eliminate fade from heavy braking applications when combined with proper pads. The stock brakes are great for street and light track duty.

As for the headers and software. I would say beware. As I posted in a recent thread, modifying the M5 is an expensive and difficult process. The car is already extremely capable, and tuned very well from the factory. The cost and increases in performance, or lack thereof, are appearent. I've heard multiple owners who have heavily modified motors say that if they were to do it again, they would have left it stock.

At the end of the day its your money, but this is my take. Were not talking about a 996TT, 1.8T A4 or E55, cars that have enormous modifying potential.

Travis
Travis,

I agree with your answer...

but for some...we always want more...

To me, a header install is a no brainer for some one who wants a more efficent engine....faster and better gas mileage...I have never seen my car above 25 mpg before the header install...

Stock brakes were always good for short term use...long down hills really need the Stoptechs....

Mark
 

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This is an easy one, headers headers headers. The powerchip upgrade would be a must with them. I can already stop as well as I need to, but I can never accelerate as fast as I need to.

Mark :M5launch:
 

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drallen said:
Stock brakes were always good for short term use...long down hills really need the Stoptechs....

Mark
That's the nice thing about driving a stick, you can always keep it in a lower gear and get the engine braking to help slow the car without as much wear on the brakes. And it doesn't hurt the motor or tranny. :thumbsup:
Regards,
Jerry
 

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I think I would go with the headers for the fun factor.

I did my headers and exhaust before my brake upgrade, but I did do the brake upgrade before my first track weekend with the M5.
 

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First welcome to the forums its good to see that you are utilizing one of its best assets.. the members opinions.

Having worked on numerous M5 projects I can tell you from experience that Headers/Software are by far you best bang for the buck modification for your car. As many have already stepped forward and commented its one of the very few instant gratification mods you can do. Throttle response is increased and with the software so is HP all across the power band.

So to answer your question..I have to agree with the other members on this one it’s a no brainer.. headers and software!


Sean D/A
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Guys,

Thank you immensely! I love this Board, no where else can one gather so much knowledge, insight and experience.

It seems this is really a no brainer then - HEADERS + POWERCHIP it will be!

I noticed many folks have them with ceramic coating. Not sure what the price is and whether it justifies for the added benefit (I guess mostly heat resistance)?
Cheers :cheers:
 

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I noticed many folks have them with ceramic coating. Not sure what the price is and whether it justifies for the added benefit (I guess mostly heat resistance)?
Thermal efficiency (keeps the exhaust gases nice and hot inside the headers, making them flow outwards faster) and keeping the engine compartment just a tad cooler than w/o the coating (important to keep the intake air as cool as reasonably possible).
 

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Need4Spd said:
Thermal efficiency (keeps the exhaust gases nice and hot inside the headers, making them flow outwards faster) and keeping the engine compartment just a tad cooler than w/o the coating (important to keep the intake air as cool as reasonably possible).
yep, headers are the way to go!

getting them coated is worthwhile imho, after a good blast in your car, place you hand just near the coilpack engine covers (just below the black plenum) those 2 metal covers are pretty much right onto of where the exhaust headers mount onto the engine... they get fairly hot and radiate the heat upwards towards the plenum... lots of heatsoak possibilities there..
 

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Hi Constantine!

I think I would choose too the headers and the chip. It's a good thing to pass the others who want to race with you at red light :noSMG:
I don't know how much you go on highways but I think an E39 M5 goes quite fast and well there in the factory mod too, but as you've wrote you go often in traffic and there the tuning like this is more usefull because you have to accelerate more times and the factory brakes are good enough, in my opinion.

PS: Go Nick! /and Kimi..../ :hihihi:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
akosm5 said:
Hi Constantine!

I think I would choose too the headers and the chip. It's a good thing to pass the others who want to race with you at red light :noSMG:

I don't know how much you go on highways but I think an E39 M5 goes quite fast and well there in the factory mod too, but as you've wrote you go often in traffic and there the tuning like this is more usefull because you have to accelerate more times and the factory brakes are good enough, in my opinion.

I don't know how much you go on highways but I think an E39 M5 goes quite fast and well there in the factory mod too, but as you've wrote you go often in traffic and there the tuning like this is more usefull because you have to accelerate more times and the factory brakes are good enough, in my opinion.

PS: Go Nick! /and Kimi..../ :hihihi:
Agree with you, given how unanimous this thread has been, there is no doubt in my mind this is my next route. Will keep you updated

PS: Go Nick! /and Kimi..../ :hihihi:[/QUOTE]​

Could not have said it any better! Leaving in a few hours for Budapest and what awaits this weekend at Hungaroring, hopefully Kimi will for once have luck with his chassis, engine, and tranny. Mercedes should really consider discontinuiing their entire AMG lineup and just focusing on F-1! hiha
 
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