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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I was at the LA auto show and in the aftermarket hall was this display by a company called HH2 Hydroelectric power. https://www.hydrolectricpower.com/Home_Page.php I didn't spend much time at all at the booth because I was tired and ready to bail home, but took some information to read later and have looked at everything on their crappy website. They are in Canoga Park, so curious if anyone would be interested in stopping by the facility to get more info and possibly drive a car.

What catches my attention are three things: 1) It claims to improve mileage by 5-50%(says it cant make specific mileage gains) 2) claims to improve power because of improved combustion and 3) produces zero to near zero emissions, qualifying it as a zero emission vehicle and CARB exemption, which may lower registration fees. Because of this, it qualifies for tax credits up to $2000 for a car which would lower your federal tax liability by 2k, basically paying for itself. It also says that by burning completely, carbon deposits burn up and the engine runs super clean. They said on the website that after install on the V8 Sequoia, they haven' changed the synthetic oil in over 20k miles. All sounds pretty good. Pricing is $1000 for a 6 cylinder and $1100 for an 8 cyl below 5 liters.

YouTube - Water4Gas Show car gets HH2 Hydrogen system
YouTube - HH2 Hydrogen V8 clean air unit final production model

My questions to you all are this. Anyone else see this booth at the show? Anyone heard of similar devices in actual vehicles driven by enthusiasts like you and me? What would happen to oil if it were not changed for that long? I wonder if they did oil analysis to figure that part out.

I would consider putting it in my e30 before the e39, but getting better mileage and low to no emissions is a nice thing to have, plus the government will practically pay for all of it due to the tax credit (so they say). Just wondering what you guys all think.
 

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I remember hearing that it was as useful as the "tornado" that creates turbulence for your air intake (so not very).

I just reviewed the system, and with my limited engineering education (I'm an MD, not engineer), it works as a catalyst to convert unburned fuel to water. Since it doesn't affect engine performance, only exhaust, I don't see it actually being more efficient. But I didn't read everything about it. Also, it draws current, which means it uses energy to do this.
 

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If you Google this you'll see that it's generally considered a scam. I read about it a few months ago. The idea is to use electricity to break H2O into Hydrogen-Hydrogen-Oxygen (HHO) and then burning that instead of or in combo w/ much lower amounts of gasoline.

I believe HHO is called 'Browns Gas' after the scientist who figured it out. Problem is it takes too much electricity to do it. High voltage at that. So...when you add it to a car at 12v you get very feeble output and your charging system has to do extra work...which makes your car consume more gasoline...which defeats the purpose in the first place.

I believe they can increase HHO output by adding a catalyst to the whole contraption to make it work better at lower voltage, but now you're paying for the catalyst as well.

In the end the problem is you need a high voltage current to make the molecular change and the dollar cost of that outweighs the money saved. It's just another example of a failed perpetual motion machine.

Save your $ and get a tune-up instead. :M5thumbs:

And besides that...if it REALLY worked this news would be everywhere and all the automakers would've installed it years ago. The proponents of HHO gizmos will claim that it hasn't been adopted by the automakers due to a huge global conspiracy by oil producers, car makers, governments and everyone else worldwide.

These are the same people who believe that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't possibly have hit Kennedy for 2 outta 3 gunshots at 88 yards in a car moving AWAY from him at only 10mph even though in the Marines he could hit a "head and shoulders" target 49 outta 50 times from 200 yards regularly during his sniper training. Doesn't mean there wasn't a conspiracy, but that makes it way less necessary.
 

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Gasoline is a fantastic motor fuel. High energy density. Easy and safe to store. Low to zero pollution with modern pollution controls. Cheap, plentiful, and a massive distribution network. Gentle on components, the list is huge.

I remember reading somewhere that if gasoline didn't exist already, we would be looking to invent something like it.

-- Warning, political rant to follow --

Alternate fuels is a political, gLiberal issue and has nothing to do with reality. There were riots recently because people are dying because we are burning corn. Gas prices have dropped to $1.80 a gallon! This issue was decided 100 years ago when steam and electric powered cars went away.

We have more oil reserves now than any point in history, and it just keeps getting bigger.

Don't even get me started on Nuclear Power Plants, or Gorebal Warming.
 

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HHO IS water. That is the same as H2O. This is pure BS. The only use for this device is to separate money from fools.
 

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Don't even get me started on Gorebal Warming.
Gorebal Warming...awesome. I say we start up a Global Warming/JFK assassination debate right here @ m5board!

KIDDING!!!
 

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No.

Here's how I read into it. Their system is a small tank of water. Electrolysis is used to separate H20 into H2 (hydrogen gas) and O2 (oxygen gas). They then run that hydrogen gas into your air intake, where it is burned up into the engine.

Hydrogen would be a fuel, not a catalyst. Assuming they don't run the oxygen gas from electrolysis into the engine as well all this would do is some of the hydrogen would be oxidized and you'd probably end up with some unburnt fuel if the DME wasn't smart enough to figure out that you wasted your money on some stupid water system. I have no idea how they can claim to reduce your emissions. Sure the hydrogen just burns into water but certainly there's still plenty of gas burning.

Our engines are finely tuned. You don't need to help your engine "burn excess fuel" by providing hydrogen (which as I said before only competes with gasoline for oxygen). Save your money.

Oh, and I agree with the general statement regarding alternative fuels as politically expedient money wasters. Nuclear power, however, is the way to a cheaper future. Maybe not for our cars, but for electricity it is easily the most promising energy source.
 

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Gasoline is a fantastic motor fuel. High energy density. Easy and safe to store. Low to zero pollution with modern pollution controls. Cheap, plentiful, and a massive distribution network. Gentle on components, the list is huge.

I remember reading somewhere that if gasoline didn't exist already, we would be looking to invent something like it.

-- Warning, political rant to follow --

Alternate fuels is a political, gLiberal issue and has nothing to do with reality. There were riots recently because people are dying because we are burning corn. Gas prices have dropped to $1.80 a gallon! This issue was decided 100 years ago when steam and electric powered cars went away.

We have more oil reserves now than any point in history, and it just keeps getting bigger.

Don't even get me started on Nuclear Power Plants, or Gorebal Warming.
Right, your math is a little wrong.

We don't have more oil reserves (oil in the ground) than we have at any point in history. Unless we're creating oil, and since we are obviously using oil, we are losing oil every day. Now if you're talking about oil in a barrel or in storage tanks, that's a different story, but that's a small percentage of total world oil.

Alternative fuels are important for a country's national security (country can control its own energy resources) and being more efficient with what we already have. I'm pretty liberal, but etoh is plain dumb as more gasoline is used into making corn etoh than is saved as a product. Brazil has a good thing going with their sugar etoh, but the technology doesn't work for the United States or Europe.

I think I'm pretty fatalistic with global warming. The earth is warming, humans contribute to global warming, and I think we're beyond the point of where we can do anything about it. I do what I can, but I'm not parting ways with my M5. Nor do I advocate anyone else part ways with their gas guzzler either (well, I do--less cars on the road = faster I can drive!).

Sorry, my political rant. I hate people who quote moronic right-wing nut scripture from a Rupert Murdoch-owned publication without thinking it through. Just be practical and not married to a right (or left) wing ideology.
 

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Right, your math is a little wrong.

We don't have more oil reserves (oil in the ground) than we have at any point in history. Unless we're creating oil, and since we are obviously using oil, we are losing oil every day. Now if you're talking about oil in a barrel or in storage tanks, that's a different story, but that's a small percentage of total world oil.

Alternative fuels are important for a country's national security (country can control its own energy resources) and being more efficient with what we already have. I'm pretty liberal, but etoh is plain dumb as more gasoline is used into making corn etoh than is saved as a product. Brazil has a good thing going with their sugar etoh, but the technology doesn't work for the United States or Europe.

I think I'm pretty fatalistic with global warming. The earth is warming, humans contribute to global warming, and I think we're beyond the point of where we can do anything about it. I do what I can, but I'm not parting ways with my M5. Nor do I advocate anyone else part ways with their gas guzzler either (well, I do--less cars on the road = faster I can drive!).

Sorry, my political rant. I hate people who quote moronic right-wing nut scripture from a Rupert Murdoch-owned publication without thinking it through. Just be practical and not married to a right (or left) wing ideology.
Oil reserves refers to estimated oil that has been discovered. We are discovering more oil every day, faster then we can pump it out of the ground. We are practically walking on a sea of oil. There are also oil shale and tar sands.

The US has over 200 years of coal reserves.

clean-energy.us - facts about coal

Global temperatures fluctuate naturally. Volcanoes, solar cycles, forest fires, cause these things.



Now, if we really cared about the environment and national security we would be building nuclear power plants and investing in clean coal. Instead of feel good nonsense like hybrids, biofuels, solar, and this God awful, fearmongering, pseudo-science Gorebal Warming.

IMHO, the worst threat to the environment is the fact that the Chinese are building coal fired power plants at the rate of 1 a week, and they are the dirty kind, IIRC. Mercury is some nasty stuff.

Coal to Kyoto: We will bury you - Marlo Lewis - Planet Gore on National Review Online


I'm tired of the fear-mongers who trick decent people into believing things that cannot be proven in order to install their own fascist policies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Why don't we get the M5 board members to chip in and someone cant test it.
All it would take is 100 members at 10 bux a pop or so to show if this does what it says it does. Better yet, lets get Mythbusters on it and let them spend the money on it. Anyone have connections...
 

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OK, I had a chance to read the site and it is snake-oil.

From the site:

WATER with a little excess vehicle electrical energy creates HH2 Hydrogen that cleans carbon from the engine and fractures the FUEL molecules, binds with them creating CLEAN AIR exhaust discharge.
It takes a tremendous amount of energy to break the bonds in a water molecule. There is no such thing as 'excess vehicle electrical energy'. A cars alternator is an on-demand device, it does not produce 'extra', only what is needed (within limits, of course). The HH2 device would increase the load on the alternator to produce the additional electrical energy.

HH2 catalyst causes total fuel combustion improvement burns 90 to 98% of your fuel.
I would guess that in a modern, well running car, the amount of unburned fuel is very close to zero. Unburned fuel causes backfires, messes up catalytic converters, and wastes gas.

Someone already mentioned this:

If this was such a great idea the auto makers would already be using it.
 
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