[SunglassesGuy]

I've got a no crank situation. Can hear starter solenoid click once when I push the start button. A section of the ISTA+ test plan says to measure current draw from starter. Is there a place to do this other than the starter? Can the starter be accessed very easily to do this?

 

[ZiMMie]

Yes in the dme box. X6011 Pin #3.
Should be a black wire.

 

[platii]

Place the current meter on the battery Negative terminal or around the GRAV lead by the right engine mount arm.

Clean all B+ battery terminal points from the battery to the engine compartment jumping point>to the front capped nut junction>to the rear capped nut(positive wire is inside the main wiring loom plastic protective housing)>to the starter B+ feed thick red wire, theses point are HOT all the time, and should have strong connection for strong battery voltage and current to flow and kick the starter motor connection. The final starter B+ positive connection must be cleaned and tightened.

For Ground, make sure the battery Negative cable is cleaned and tightened. GRAV lead is not loose, damaged burned, or corroded.

Use Scotchbrite or fine sand paper to clean the connections.

Once you test the starter B+ final connection and it has battery power not less much from measuring at the battery direct positive terminal, next test battery at the braided wire on the body of the starter with start up button pressed (solenoid click) you should also see battery charge, if you have both battery power on these two points replace starter.

 

[SunglassesGuy]

Thanks Guys. Gonna take me a few days to try all this, was simply trying to move the car so I could work on wife's car. Do you see anything in these ISTA read outs that point to a problem.

BTW - Where is this mysterious Terminal 50 located?

Starter Enable = Not active? Does this only go active when the start button is pushed?

Terminal 50E 0.0V , Terminal 15 , Wake up (ACC) = 0.13V ?

 

[platii]

Terminal 50 located?

Starter circuit wiring.

Starter Enable = Not active? Does this only go active when the start button is pushed?

Yes.

Terminal 50E 0.0V

Normal. voltage changes when starting.
All reading looks good.

 

[SunglassesGuy]

Where is the circuit that activates the starter solenoid? I've gone thru ISTA verbatim and can't find it. Terminal 50 ends at the DME, and can't find it traveling over to the starter solenoid?

 

[ZiMMie]

Where is the circuit that activates the starter solenoid? I've gone thru ISTA verbatim and can't find it. Terminal 50 ends at the DME, and can't find it traveling over to the starter solenoid?

 

[platii]

CAS activate the the starter circuit, the starter relay is built inside CAS, if you hear the starter solenoid clicks means the starter KL50 circuit is activated and you will find 12V power is sent to the starter solenoid, gain access to the starter solenoid you will find a plug connected to the solenoid. Next stage is connecting the B+ to the starter motor to turn it as I mentioned in my previous post, test the 12V points where the starter motor should turn, when 12V verified and the the starter motor stuck hit it with a mallet and try to start.

 

[ZiMMie]

CAS limit or block starter access after it detects high resistance in the starter line.

He can just verify the resistance of the seloniod from the access point in the fuse box as I posted.

 

[platii]

I would believe if there is high resistance in the starter line the solenoid will be limited and will not activate and clicks and possible also the starter relay will be burnt inside CAS. But for this case it seems the issue is in the starter itself not connecting B+ or B+ power to starter.

 

[SunglassesGuy]

Thanks again Guys, I'm working with a 2009 M6, but it looks like the last circuit diagram that ZiMMie posted matches (Numbers are a bit different, but basically same circuitry). My version of the TIS just didn't show the starter details, this is very helpful. Another thing that is a little different is the CAS/DME pins. Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like for the M6, CAS Terminal 50 connects to Pin 2 of the DME at the 60001 connector?

I will measure voltages and resistances and try the hammer whack. Was also wondering if I put the car in gear, and just push on it a bit, maybe that would accomplish same thing as hammer whack. The starter was replaced a few years ago, just before I bought the car. I have no paper work to verify that tho.

Is there a way to attempt to easily jump these two points (In Red) so I don't have to tear plenums off to access the starter? (Oh and do it with out burning some electronics out along the way?) I've been wondering when people open up their CAS and find a burnt Terminal 50, its because they tried to hotwire the car by connecting B+ directly to the starter solenoid, which would send B+ back to Terminal 50 area.

One other question: What is going on inside the Starter at #4 ? This looks like a switch, what opens and closes it? And what do the little rectangles with a slash thru them represent? (items #2, 3 inside the starter)

EDIT: Think I found the answer to the Starter components question: 6 Complete Starter Solenoid Parts, Functions & Working: ECE

 

[platii]

Don't jump items in red, you don't need, that signal is available at the starter signal line plug that's connected to front of the starter (solenoid), by the way, if you pulled that connector you isolate CAS.

Don't complicate things, I know we all hate to remove intake plenums but for this you need to to troubleshoot the starter easily and safely. You only need to measure 12V at the B+ with ignition off and the braided wire with start button pressed, if both are having 12V it is the starter, either whack it or replace.

Forget about the DME terminal KL50 signal, it is only a reference signal.

 

[SunglassesGuy]

Thanks guys. Gotta rebuild my wifes brakes - new calipers, replace rotor, pads and bleed the system. Hopefully I'll get her brakes done by Tuesday (hopefully Monday) and then do some testing on the M6 next week.

I did have some friends help me move the M6 over to the other stall so I can get wifes car onto the lift. So tried to nudge the M6 while in gear. Didn't help.

Platii BTW - Why whack the starter? Are you wondering if something inside the starter could be stuck?

 

[platii]

Platii BTW - Why whack the starter? Are you wondering if something inside the starter could be stuck?

yes, the bearing could got jammed/stuck and caused it not to turn, whack it to unstuck but still need to be replaced.

 

[SunglassesGuy]

new info: Terminal 50E reads 11.8 V when pressing start and terminal 50L reads 53 Amps

 

[N_Rob]

I chased this code and no crank condition on my 6MT for a while, it was the starter. Replaced it from the top, not a terrible job. Fine ever since, it’s been over a year.

 

[SunglassesGuy]

I chased this code and no crank condition on my 6MT for a while, it was the starter. Replaced it from the top, not a terrible job. Fine ever since, it’s been over a year.

I saw a DIY on this, apparently there are 2 methods, one actually remove the entire starter, and one, leave housing in place and replace guts. Which did you do? Also, starter was supposedly replaced about 2 years ago, just before I bought car. I have no documentation to prove tho.

 

[N_Rob]

I saw a DIY on this, apparently there are 2 methods, one actually remove the entire starter, and one, leave housing in place and replace guts. Which did you do? Also, starter was supposedly replaced about 2 years ago, just before I bought car. I have no documentation to prove tho.

I left the housing and replaced the guts. 2 year old starter should be fine though… interesting. Good luck with the diagnosis

 

[SunglassesGuy]

I left the housing and replaced the guts. 2 year old starter should be fine though… interesting. Good luck with the diagnosis

any major difficulties that you recall as you replaced the guts?

 

[N_Rob]

any major difficulties that you recall as you replaced the guts?

The hardest part I remember is getting the torx screws on the back of the housing out. You’ve got the firewall a few inches away, you’re blind, and there’s some metal hardlines back there too that get in the way. There may be something I was missing to make it easier, not sure. But I ended up using a torx head Allen-key style tool to slowly unscrew them. Real pain in the *** considering the space and vision limitations. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was something I missed to make it easier though. The rest wasn’t that bad, just unplug everything and move that wiring jacket that runs over the valley out of the way. Plenty of space to pull the old guts out and put the new ones in.

Edit: both TA’s and both IA’s have to be removed to make enough space. You can choose at this time to replace the IA gaskets (it’s as good a time as any to do it). I didn’t, hadn’t thought ahead far enough to order them. I’m still doing fine reusing the old ones, they’re metal like exhaust gaskets.