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Thank you again for all the details and explanations.
You have one hell of an engine and car ! :)

And by any chance do you remember/have the info regarding the final bore and stroke numbers as well how much 'meat' between the cylinder walls?

"Surprises a lot of E39 M5 owners."
As i said, you have more torque in a 4L inline-6 than a 5L V8. Just plain crazy ! And no to mention the weight difference between the platforms.

Enjoy it in good health.:cheers:
 

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Thank you again for all the details and explanations.
You have one hell of an engine and car ! :)

And by any chance do you remember/have the info regarding the final bore and stroke numbers as well how much 'meat' between the cylinder walls?


Enjoy it in good health.:cheers:
Don't recall the exact numbers, but I do recall Frank telling me is design was maxed out with respect to cylinder wall thickness meat. Which means I cannot bore it any further (if I break a ring or something else nasty). BTW, Frank also had his own rings designed which contribute to the very low leakdown ratings. The motor has incredibly low oil consumption as well, compared to its native BMW brothers. I think I am still under about 250-300 cc in 3000 mi, at about 60 K mi on the motor. I do not use low viscosity synthetic oil.
 

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Yes, that's why i asked.

I know that the max overbore for S38B36 is 0,4mm (and for the S38B38 is 0,14 mm) and since the bores for the M88/3, S38B35 and S38B36 are the same (only the stroke differs) .
And the stock wall thickness is 6,6 mm for M88/3, S38b35 and S38B36 (for S38B38 is 5,4 mm)
Interested if he used the same numbers.

And very nice about the rings and low oil consumption.
May i ask what oil (viscosity) ? Something with a high level of ZDDP, Phosphorus (to protect the cam lobes) and HTHS (to protect the rod bearings) ?
Max rpm is the same? (also very nice about the improved harmonic dampener )

I think you have everything from that engine now. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
Thanks for posting :)

Hi,

Great story Sir ! :cheers:

Frank and I we are friends and I must say every time I visit his shop early in the morning shortly after I look at outside I realize its 6pm...! Time fly when you go visit Frank. Now I do remember Frank was telling me about your motor as a story what happen and etc...

I wander did you come at the Pistmo Beach E24 shark meet few months ago ??? I am currently maintaing an E39 M5 and must say its a great car for the money. But my heart is in the older model E24 M6.

I am located in LA area and will be traveling up north to visit family at San Luis Obispo, it will be great to meet you at Pismo Beach and see the beast !

Post some pics

Regards
Anri



The motor started out as a 3.8 liter Dinan stroker that had about 100 K mi on it. I had it dyno'd at about 330 crank HP (from 287 HP stock). It was using oil so I needed it rebuilt. When I went to Dinan Engineering I was shocked to find they refused to rebuild my motor, even though they built the original. In case you don't know much about the Dinan motor, they took the original M88 Euro 3.5 liter motor and bored it to 3.8 Liter in combination with a custom built crank and custom pistons. It also used a special EEPROM in the ECU. One of the main reasons Dynan refused to rebuild had to do with the custom pistons, which were too expensive to procure, esp in + sizes needed for a bore honing or repair. It was designed for a 9.5 CR so it could use pump gas without detonation problems.

Since Dinan could not help me, I went to Frank Fahey. He is a very well known shop that catered to early 80's M cars. He Federalized (did the DOT and EPA certification) for many gray market M cars including the M1. He also owns his own modified M1. He invented the well known hardened crank hub pulley that fixed the OEM crank hub stripping problem at high RPM.

I contacted Frank and he told me he could bore my motor to 4.0 liters and get nearly 400 HP, and with that Dinan stroker crank, 400 ft-lbs of torque. He had just completed an E34 M5 and they got dyno numbers over these. Pretty exciting numbers so I decided to have him do the work.

We pulled the motor apart and found appaling wear in the main bearings (due to my exclusive use of Mobil 1). Frank warned me that oil is garbage and I have the bearing wear to prove it. We also found eccentricity in the bore of the cylinders (a Dinan screw up) as well as cracks in the block (another Dinan defect). The motor was completely torn down and blue printed. Frank installed his custom pistons (I think built by Mahle) and we put in new con rods as well. Frank can fill you in with more details. He is particularly anal about the bore circularity which results in very low (under 1 or 2%) leak down rates. The leak down rate of the Dinan stroker was over 30% in some cylinders. The final compression was about 10.1:1.

We also put in Shrick exhaust cams (leaving intake stock) and a UNICHIP aux ECU. This is an "add on" computer that is used in parallel with the Euro stock ECU. It has the capability to provide more fuel than the stock ECU can provide and is tuned on the dyno.

The car is in CA, so it had to be "smog legal" meaning it had to be clean enough to pass tough CA emissions measurements with a cat equipped. The SS tubular Euro headers were retained, but the flanges modified to fit the US M6 cats. When not using the cats, a track pipe (for off road use only) fits between the headers and the US center resonator/exhaust combo. I use a fully US exhaust system so I can bolt up the cats. The only issue I have is the tail pipe tips are not quite centered in the Euro rear M Technic valence.

I have the dyno charts somewhere but it was some time ago when the work was completed. As you can imagine, 375 HP with 400+ ft-lbs of torque really make this 3300 lb car scoot. It is extremely fast between 80 and about 130 MPH. Surprises a lot of E39 M5 owners.
 

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Yes, that's why i asked.

I know that the max overbore for S38B36 is 0,4mm (and for the S38B38 is 0,14 mm) and since the bores for the M88/3, S38B35 and S38B36 are the same (only the stroke differs) .
And the stock wall thickness is 6,6 mm for M88/3, S38b35 and S38B36 (for S38B38 is 5,4 mm)
Interested if he used the same numbers.

And very nice about the rings and low oil consumption.
May i ask what oil (viscosity) ? Something with a high level of ZDDP, Phosphorus (to protect the cam lobes) and HTHS (to protect the rod bearings) ?
Max rpm is the same? (also very nice about the improved harmonic dampener )

I think you have everything from that engine now. :)
I am using a specailty oil from Brad Penn Racing. It used to be the old Conoco Phillips "green" oil (in fact, Brad Penn purchased the old Conoco Oil refinery making the oil in PA). I use 20-50W. It is basicly a dino oil but does have some synthetic additives. Well regarded in the drag racing circles where (unlike F1 and Mobil 1) the racers actually use the oil. Frank Fahey turned me on to this stuff and it really works well. I also use it in the E39 M5 instead of that 10W-60 Castrol stuff. I change the oil at 3K mi and oil analysis shows the additive package is still very good and wear components negligable. I have very good low oil consumption in both cars.

Regarding more from the motor, Frank thinks we can get more by putting in the other Shrick cam and going to a completely electronic engine management system, and dumping the Bosh air flow meter (a major limitation over about 350 Hp) and Bosch ECU. Of course, the impact on emissions is unknown, and I hesitate (1) because i am happy with the car as is, and (2) I don't want smog pass/fail issues due to the much more radical tune.

BTW, have you heard of Frank's latest project the "BIMVet?" It is a highly modified Euro M6 with a LS7 Corvett motor transplant. Well over 650 Hp at the rear wheels.
 

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Hi,

Great story Sir ! :cheers:

Frank and I we are friends and I must say every time I visit his shop early in the morning shortly after I look at outside I realize its 6pm...! Time fly when you go visit Frank. Now I do remember Frank was telling me about your motor as a story what happen and etc...

I wander did you come at the Pistmo Beach E24 shark meet few months ago ??? I am currently maintaing an E39 M5 and must say its a great car for the money. But my heart is in the older model E24 M6.

I am located in LA area and will be traveling up north to visit family at San Luis Obispo, it will be great to meet you at Pismo Beach and see the beast !

Post some pics

Regards
Anri
I look forward to meeting you (see my response to your PM). I have missed many of the "Sharkfests" as I simply am not on the mailing list anylonger. Last one I attended was in Paso Robles way back in 2006 or so.

I had to buy the E39 simply because I have over 250K on one M6 and about 100k on the other (sold). Having two high milage Euro M cars is not a high reliability scenario. Still love the M6, especially the seats, which I sorely miss on the E39 M5. Have been looking for years for replacement Recaros for the M5 but the complications with the airbags makes things difficult. The M6 is just a fun car and feels so much more in tune with the driver vs the M5. Plus, all the gizmos/gadgets on the M5 are nice but not essential for me. It can be a very difficult car to work on due to the total lack of published documentation. Thank God for this board, which is the only remaining source for DIY and troubleshooting info on the E39. The ODBII system on the M5 is a real PITA, as I seem to get a Check Engine Light once a year. I have already replaced all 4 O2 sensors and all 4 CPS on the E39, with under 42K mi on the clock. NEVER had that kind of issue with the M6.

I wanted to replace my battery in the E39 soon after I got the car with a fully sealed type but it did not quite fit. I thought, "no problem" I'll just get a longer bat cable. When I went to look up a replacement (which I was going to splice with longer cable) I found the cost was well over $500, and you could not mess with it brecause it has explosive squids on the end connector for the airbag system. Turns out, if you roll the car, it blows the bat connection to disable the electrical system as part of airbag deployment. YIKES!
 

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Nice this F.H. 4.0 Liter engine,,

but i doubt that this engine is making 400 lbs/ft of torque,,,,,,,,

this is 542 nm.. hmmm

I am almost positive that this engine have one of the highest torque spec that i have EVER heard of,, @ cc ,,on a N/A engine

i think we must see the data graph from the dyno :hihi:
 

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Discussion Starter #29
New Friend

Hi D'Arcy,

It was pleasure to meet you !

Thanks for the ride. I felt the increased engine capacity immediately after we took off. It is blast to drive that fun toy. Fast as well regardless we took the the M88/3 animal only up to 5k-ish.

I will see you soon when we come back.

Regards
Anri
 

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Another E24 M635 owner here. Puts a smile on my face every time!

That bored out Dinan sounds awesome...we need to see some video's!
 

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newbee

hi guys

another ///M6 here south France:

VIN 1052286. one of the 192 sold in France.

Have it for 11 years now... she makes me happy at every ride...


Actually searching a M5 E34 touring EVO...
M5 and M6 in my garage is my wish for 2013 !
:applause::applause:
 

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hi guys

another ///M6 here south France:

VIN 1052286. one of the 192 sold in France.

Have it for 11 years now... she makes me happy at every ride...


Actually searching a M5 E34 touring EVO...
M5 and M6 in my garage is my wish for 2013 !:applause::applause:
What color is that? Is it artic blue metallic? I had an M635 that was imported into the US via Hardy and Beck via a dealer in France and it was artic blue (looks a lot like yours). Loved that color as it was never imported on US cars via BMWNA.

Here are some photos of mine. Sold the car but loved that color.
 

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If you wanted to buy a factory fresh 1988 m5/m6,
where would you look? Does BMW have a "classic"
division in their company where you can send your
classic BMW and they restore it? If so, do these include
M cars and engines?
 

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I have had the itch for a E24 for a long time, used to have a 635CSI which I loved and modded with headers, suspension and exhaust. It is my all time favorite BMW I have owned. If I get the opportunity to pick up a M635CSI or 87-88 M6 somewhat locally I will jump on it. There are several low mileage models available now but they are far away and I am not comfortable buying a 25 year old car without seeing it. I seem to be always on the lookout for these cars therefore sooner or later I will have to add one to the stable.
 

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If you wanted to buy a factory fresh 1988 m5/m6,
where would you look? Does BMW have a "classic"
division in their company where you can send your
classic BMW and they restore it? If so, do these include
M cars and engines?
I have heard that the factory in Germany will do this, but at great expense. I saw they completed a restoration project of a 2002 touring for a German dignitary. They did not mention cost but the car looked like new when completed.

Here in the states someone like Frank Fahey can restore these but the costs would not be cheap. A number of parts (particularly trim and some body parts) are becoming NLA so you need a good car to start with. There are a few 1987-89 M6s in Ca here but they are not the most desirable due to the higher curb weight and lower engine power. The M5s were available in the US for one model year (1988) and one color (black). All other years are gray market imports which may have their own problems/issues, depending on who did the DOT/EPA certs. Right now in California it is impossible to bring in a gray market car if the DOT/EPA cert work was done out of state.

I like the Euros because of the light weight, available options (such as buffalo hide interiors, manual sport seats) that were not provided on US cars; and the low profile light weight bumpers. US 635s and M6s had those large 5 mph bumpers.

In other parts of the world finding a good example that is rust free is difficult. Ca is still the best place because we don't get snow (unless you live in Tahoe or the mountains).
 

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I have had the itch for a E24 for a long time, used to have a 635CSI which I loved and modded with headers, suspension and exhaust. It is my all time favorite BMW I have owned. If I get the opportunity to pick up a M635CSI or 87-88 M6 somewhat locally I will jump on it. There are several low mileage models available now but they are far away and I am not comfortable buying a 25 year old car without seeing it. I seem to be always on the lookout for these cars therefore sooner or later I will have to add one to the stable.
Good luck finding one that is rust free on the East Coast. Maybe you will get lucky and find a stored one owned by a collector, but these have not appreciated a lot in value so they have not been hotly collected up til now. Plus, finding a low milage car that has not been driven for all these years means a lot of other problems will surface when you finally get the car road worthy.
 

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If you wanted to buy a factory fresh 1988 m5/m6,
where would you look? Does BMW have a "classic"
division in their company where you can send your
classic BMW and they restore it? If so, do these include
M cars and engines?
yes it exist, but in Munich.

have a look there
BMW Classic

:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #40
E24 M6. Complete restoration

Hi all,

As I am a big Enthusiast of BMW E24 M6. I do own/collect several E24 M6's, E31, E30 M3 and also have a full race car E24 M6 dedicated track car. Being around E24 M6 since 10+ years.

I do offer complete restoration from bumper to bumper on these cars as well other vintage cars.

I am attaching few pics on a car that I have for sale.

Through my hands I have restored more than 10 cars E24 M6's. My E24 M6 world will continue to grow.

Enjoy the pics

Regards
Anri
 

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