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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everybody,

My friend Henrik and I changed rear rotors and pads on my E39 M5 today.

When we had the car on the lift we went over all the chassis, trying to locate the source of an increased tramlining tendency and slight assymetry of the rear lateral response, with the car feeling slightly softer to the right when pushed slalom style.

We found out that the rear right wheel has a play (at the periphery of the wheel) of 2mm peak-to-peak in the camber direction , but 6mm peak-to-peak in the toe-in direction. On the left side there is 2mm in both directions.

All rubber parts look intact, and there are no particular noise when turning the wheel.

There is also a very slight play in the front left steering joint.

Does anyone have experience with how a worn wheel bearing will respond to pushing and shoving the wheel?

Any other suggestions or advice, please?

David
 

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Just because the rubber looks ok doesnt mean it is still doing its job. I havent had an issue on my M5 but in other cars you can hear the bearing going bad while driving. Under power/turning load you will be able to hear quite a growl from that corner.
 

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The rear end play in the wheel, in my opinon is the rear ball joint, which is part 2 on here :

 

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wheel bearings are extremely hard to diagnose unless they are completely shot, if that were the case you would hear a constant "humming" as the car moved. like posted above, it may be time for rear ball joints, if its not the ball joints, then its part 18, followed by part 14.

another thing to keep in mind, just because the rubber parts look "fine" doesnt mean they are still within tolerances. you pushing on the wheel can never replicate the loads the car has on the components. if it were me and you were even questioning the wheel bearings, i would go ahead and change everything. odds are if the rest hasnt been done, its about that time anyway.

but i would go the order i said above if you dont hear any humming from the rear end.

good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The rear end play in the wheel, in my opinon is the rear ball joint, which is part 2 on here :

Thanks, M5 London!

We used a prying bar to check for play at all the accessible joints. The ball joint (#2 in the diagram) seemed to have identical elasticity left and right. It is very hard to tell for sure as a 4mm difference in play at the wheel diameter is less than 1mm at the location of this ball joint.

If there is increased play in the ball-joint, for me it would not seem too far-fetched that this might increase the rear-wheels "suppleness" to "steering" forces from grooves in the road such that tram-lining is increased.

The thing is for legal reasons (as well as practical) we had to put on the winter tires (studded Nokian Hakkapelitta), so right now the car is no where as "tight handling" as normally due to the softer side-walls of the tires and the lower dry tarmac grip of the studs, so probably I´ll wait to replace things in the chassis until spring such that I can make direct before and after comparisons of the handling.

BR,

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
wheel bearings are extremely hard to diagnose unless they are completely shot, if that were the case you would hear a constant "humming" as the car moved. like posted above, it may be time for rear ball joints, if its not the ball joints, then its part 18, followed by part 14.

another thing to keep in mind, just because the rubber parts look "fine" doesnt mean they are still within tolerances. you pushing on the wheel can never replicate the loads the car has on the components. if it were me and you were even questioning the wheel bearings, i would go ahead and change everything. odds are if the rest hasnt been done, its about that time anyway.

but i would go the order i said above if you dont hear any humming from the rear end.

good luck.
Thanks!

#2, #18 then #14 seems quite logical. However as the problem is so distinctly confined to the toe-in axis the more I think about it #2 seems the natural suspect.

I´ll post again in this thread once this is resolved.

BR,

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Just because the rubber looks ok doesnt mean it is still doing its job. I havent had an issue on my M5 but in other cars you can hear the bearing going bad while driving. Under power/turning load you will be able to hear quite a growl from that corner.
Thanks!

I definitely agree about visual checks of rubber parts not being very useful at all. And a broken wheel bearing will of course be noisy, but before it actually breaks i suppose it could get some extra play.

David
 

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#2 is quite a common failure item on all E39s PS: It must be bought in conjunction with part #3 also (Snap Ring)

I also did the Intergral Link part # 4, but is not a necessity....but is very thorough :)

After fitting 2,3 and 4 I noticed that the rear of the car felt so much more connected with the front of the car, rather than previously,where it would feel more like drivin 2 half cars (the front and the back who sort of behaved as if they were acting independently)



If you are going to change the arm #14 it is very expensive, so try to get the Lemforder part (manufacturer for BMW). You may even see how they have scratched off the BMW symbol on the arm, if you buy directly from Lemforder or their re sellers. But ONLY Lemforder, no other substitute, as it is 100% identical....although reported failures off this arm have not caught my eye so much, but doesn't mean they are behaving 100%....

Also observe weak or leaking fluid from the balljoints in arm #18 (Wishbone), as this also a common failure item, and also from Lemforder.

From memory each arm 18 and 14 was about £180/Euro 200 each !

Good Luck
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Posts like these is why I love M5board!

#2 is quite a common failure item on all E39s PS: It must be bought in conjunction with part #3 also (Snap Ring)

I also did the Intergral Link part # 4, but is not a necessity....but is very thorough :)

After fitting 2,3 and 4 I noticed that the rear of the car felt so much more connected with the front of the car, rather than previously,where it would feel more like drivin 2 half cars (the front and the back who sort of behaved as if they were acting independently)



If you are going to change the arm #14 it is very expensive, so try to get the Lemforder part (manufacturer for BMW). You may even see how they have scratched off the BMW symbol on the arm, if you buy directly from Lemforder or their re sellers. But ONLY Lemforder, no other substitute, as it is 100% identical....although reported failures off this arm have not caught my eye so much, but doesn't mean they are behaving 100%....

Also observe weak or leaking fluid from the balljoints in arm #18 (Wishbone), as this also a common failure item, and also from Lemforder.

From memory each arm 18 and 14 was about £180/Euro 200 each !

Good Luck
Posts like these is why I love M5board!

I think your description of lessened connectedness between the front and the rear of the car could fit very well with what I´ve experienced.

David
 

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18 and 14 are more like 60-70€,each....
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=r10>18</TD><TD class=r11>Wishbone, left</TD><TD class="r10 p1"></TD><TD class=r11>1</TD><TD class=r10></TD><TD class=r11></TD><TD class=r10 noWrap>33326767831</TD><TD class=r11 noWrap align=right>$240.76</TD><TD class=r10></TD></TR><TR><TD class=r00>18</TD><TD class=r01>Right wishbone</TD><TD class="r00 p1"></TD><TD class=r01>1</TD><TD class=r00></TD><TD class=r01></TD><TD class=r00 noWrap>33326767832</TD><TD class=r01 noWrap align=right>$240.76</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=r00>14</TD><TD class=r01>Guiding suspension link</TD><TD class="r00 p1"></TD><TD class=r01>2</TD><TD class=r00></TD><TD class=r01>07/2000</TD><TD class=r00 noWrap>33326768791</TD><TD class=r01 noWrap align=right>$236.12</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Send me some BMW arms Raikku, I will sell them outside my BMW dealer ! :)

When I comment on the price of something its for good reason. I think it was one of the very few things I thought, ouch when I was purchasing ! Vibration Damper was the other one ouch, Ouch !
 

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WOW,that is nasty,mate!:eek:oohhh:
The ones I use are Meyle as I made good experience with their parts...
And I get a good discount on these as well:grinyes:
 

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Lol you guys !

I am saying buying this arm costs loads from BMW, as I did !

Alternative for the same IDENTICAL part from Lemforder is much cheaper.

Other substitutes (pattern parts) are vvvvv cheap, but not ones I would put on my car !
 

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Actually try some local Lemforder suppliers.

I'll get you a best UK price.

But there is the chap from US (Alex.s. Iirc))who is doing those cool bearings that he sells so you can press them into the arm and they seem like better ones than the stock bushings.

The rest is just a metal arm right, so unless its bent those spherical bearings seem great !

Cheers
 
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Local price I get is not much lower for the Lemfoeder part...
Thanks for checking,mate!

Seen the bushes.....time to turn and mill some stuff myself,then...:D
 

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Local price I get is not much lower for the Lemfoeder part...
Thanks for checking,mate!

Seen the bushes.....time to turn and mill some stuff myself,then...:D
Yeah and please don't forget to accidentally put 4 in an envelope with my address and postage on it too :byebye:
 
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