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Discussion Starter #1
Hi @all header specialists!

As I was not able to find any data-sheets about performance of Dinan headers I want to ask which system is the better one for our beast:

- 4 --> 1 system (with low end torque loss) or
- 4 --> 2 --> 1 system (any disadvantages)

The reason is, that I have a good contact to one of the exhaust producer in my neighbourhood (named Sebring / Remus :biggrinbounce:) and it seems they will do something for my beast and I want also inform by myself which system is the better one!
 

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Hi @all header specialists!

As I was not able to find any data-sheets about performance of Dinan headers I want to ask which system is the better one for our beast:

- 4 --> 1 system (with low end torque loss) or
- 4 --> 2 --> 1 system (any disadvantages)

All other things being equal, a 4-2-1 will give a little better low and mid range power, but sacrifice some high end, where the 4-1 is better. Depending on design, the crossover point is probably north of 4000 rpm, but that is simply a WAG, because so much depends on design and a 4-1 might move the crossover point up a little bit.

Everything is a compromise, so if you can get both for the same price and assuming the flow characteristics of both are the same so the ONLY difference is 4-2-1 vs. 4-1, simply decide which one suits your needs better.

Regards,
Jerry
 

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Jeez, do a search, we have spent MONTHS debating this issue.
Dinan - $8k and the best
Supersprint - $3k and not as good
can you afford $8k? If yes buy the Dinan
Can't? Buy the Supersprints, they will make your car go FASTER.
Headers are 1 of 2 legitimate go faster mods, pumpkin being the other
 

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Sorry to dumb it down Jerry, I wasn't trying to dump on your post.
 

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Sorry to dumb it down Jerry, I wasn't trying to dump on your post.
Hey, no problem, but I don't think you answered his question.

He was inquiring about having custom headers made and the relative merits of 4-2-1 vs. 4-1. He wasn't asking whether Dinan or SS are "better".cherrsagai
Regards,
Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you,

Sebring will proof which system (in their sight) could be the best (but the decision could also be which is the easiest way to go for them) so asked hear which design makes the better performance for our beasts.

The first answer was they are going to make a 4-2-1 design but they will decide after having a look into the Beast.

@jcrist:
no, I will not spend 8k for 4-2-1 design :biggrinbounce:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
well the Dinan it's not only a 4-2-1 but also an equal length design
equal length design is basic for aftermarket system (in my opinion) ;)
 

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equal length design is basic for aftermarket system (in my opinion) ;)
I agree. The SS headers don't look like they are equal length from the pictures.
 

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I don't think the SS are equal length, nor are some of the custom headers some people have had made.

Due to packaging constraints, it's probably difficult to get equal length, one of the reasons why Dinan costs as much as it does.

Equal length is nice, but is it worth $5K?

As for 4-2-1 vs. 4-1, I'm more inclined to go for the 4-1. Take a look at a stock dynograph, we have a lot of torque down low, power that is completely useless when we are rowing through the gears. Upper RPM is where it needs to be.

Has Sebring/Remus giving you a quote on the approx cost for a set of headers? If you could get equal length for the same or less cost than SuperSprint, then I know I'd be interested in a set.
 

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I have 4-1 headers and an aftermarket exhaust. Keeping in mind that I use 94 octane Powerchip s/w also, I can say this about the setup. Initially I was concerned about any apparent (not actual) loss of torque, but as shown on the dyno there seems to be no header-induced flat spot. If there is any lost torque over a 4-2-1 design it is gained in new-found midrange (4k-ish) pulling power. I suspect you'll get great results with either approach, but you may let where in the power band you usually drive dictate which design to use.
 

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I have 4-1 headers and an aftermarket exhaust. Keeping in mind that I use 94 octane Powerchip s/w also, I can say this about the setup. Initially I was concerned about any apparent (not actual) loss of torque, but as shown on the dyno there seems to be no header-induced flat spot. If there is any lost torque over a 4-2-1 design it is gained in new-found midrange (4k-ish) pulling power. I suspect you'll get great results with either approach, but you may let where in the power band you usually drive dictate which design to use.
Who did your headers if I may ask?

Brian
 

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I would like to light a corner of this discussion with the following.

When modding my Beast, I often joked that I was going to put "3K" on the license plate becuase every mod for the car seemed to be $3K. It's a fairly accurate however light-hearted comment. It became apparent to me early on that this car was different in that it came wound about as tightly from the factory as any other I had dealt with. You could add software tweaking here, intake there, and get some real power. You absolutely cannot with this car. BMW really tuned this thing for maximum output as configured through the long block and without going through said block (cams and such), you really are not going to get much. Not saying that's a bad thing, just that it's a kick arse engine adn really, a kick *** offering from a car manufacturer. They really must have had fun putting this car together.
Now, I spent ton's of money on this car, wasting the majority of it in mods that advertised improvemnts but really gained little. IMO, this car is AA and other tuner's worst nightmare. On one hand you can charge a premium for parts due to the cost basis of ownership, but you couldn't offer much to the consumer. I mean, compare it to the 335, you pick one of those off the lot, spend $5500, and you have a firebreathing, 400hp monster.

I do actually have a point that relates to this thread. Buy headers. From whomever you can afford, in whatever configuration. After talking to one of the worlds leaders in exhuast technology, I even highly recommend the Dinan headers even though they cost and arm and two legs. I modded and dyno'ed my Beast 7 times before getting headers. It's the only mod that made a difference. Do it before Tubi's, before anything. Do it with stock ex cans. It's the only money spent that you will get performance out of. I had the SS headers, the finish was tremendous, the fit-not so much. But they were WORTH it. The move for you and your car is to scour the For Sale thread and wait for someone to sell theirs. People already do, they are one of those parts that last an average of 15 minutes from original posting.....for a reason.


Thank you,

Sebring will proof which system (in their sight) could be the best (but the decision could also be which is the easiest way to go for them) so asked hear which design makes the better performance for our beasts.

The first answer was they are going to make a 4-2-1 design but they will decide after having a look into the Beast.

@jcrist:
no, I will not spend 8k for 4-2-1 design :biggrinbounce:
 

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Equal length is tremendously important. In my discussions (listenings) with the guru of gas (exhaust gas(es)) it was made clear that reflectances of harmonics and gas (sound and back-pressure) had everything to do with a high performing exhaust system. Some thing along the lines of harmonics/vibrations being tuned to where the were not refelecting back into the head while the new ones were being generated, same with the gaseos part, something really elaborate and BELIEVABLE. That's why the design is so important and takes a tremendous mod and makes it better. I would chat up the Sebring people and drop some hints around to see if they talk about equal length as hopefully go beyond and talk about how it realted to harmonics etc. If they say that's bullshiite, you may have the wrong guys.
 
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