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E60 M5 and building engines
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have misfires and reduced power mode.

I am OCD, do not recommend you follow all of my thoughts.

Codes most likely IONIC modules, but also throttle issues.

FULL cannon:
1) New plugs
2) Throttle actuators
3) NEW fuel injectors x10 (insurance, while I'm in there)
4) Coils....have many!

Only have a few days, otherwise would not recommend. Fuel injectors make me nervous based on engines I have received. Insurance....I hope.

P-Chi
 

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Good plan.
 

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E60 M5 and building engines
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hello Alan,

Yes I get it, but in my opinion, the most expensive BMW repairs result from lack of maintenance and not understanding the vehicle's Achilles Heel, or heels in the case of the S85.

All items will need attention at some point so it is prevetative maintenance "while I'm in there". Fuel injectors are my main "maintenance" item and will have the original set tested and/or rebuilt/certified for future use. I DO NOT trust the fuel injectors!

My thoughts and my car so my rules.
P-Chi



P-Chi
 

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I'm certainly not saying that all of these parts will not be needed and for a DIY go for it! I have read so many times people start throwing parts or more accurately shops. This propagates bad reviews for the brand and model as in the case of the S85.

"IF" you think it is an ionic module there is no while you are in their stuff to change. "IF" you change all those parts and it does not fix the misfire the brand and model take another beating. I have seen this on almost every BMW forum that I am on or have been on.

IMO the Achilles heal of the S85 is the lease program with crappy owners. I am new to the platform but it seems that every good owner on here doesn't have big problems including you and me. Every new owner that I have seen respectfully does the RB straight away. So now we have basically a reliable super car, even in track service.

Just one small favor to ask, follow up and report what actually fixes the misfire. It could be any one of those parts but you may never know? All the best from one good owner to another.
 

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The injector has no filter inside, best is to ultrasonic clean them, the main point is to test the injector resistance which should be between 12-14 ohm, if they are low or high replace them. I noticed that when the injector gets old its resistance drops to 10-11 ohm.
 

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E60 M5 and building engines
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Just one small favor to ask, follow up and report what actually fixes the misfire. It could be any one of those parts but you may never know? All the best from one good owner to another.
Hello Alan,

Thank you for such a detailed response and love to share information and get feedback.

I should have been more clear in my plan. I am in Michigan, car is in FL and my dad will use as a daily driver (limited miles), but it started acting up in the spring of 2021. I went to FL in the fall for vacation and checked the car. The previous owner left a Schwaben scanner that is supposed to be perfect for BMW's of this era, but I found it less useful than most. I did not bring my Autel scanner and like to look at live data.

I do not yet have the BMW ISTA or other software/diagnostic program on my computer, but would like to get and learn soon. Can you/anyone point me in the right direction?

NOTE: codes I did get were misfire on Cyl-2 and throttle position out of range. I tried new coils, and no help. This leads me to believe I may be chasing two issues.
1) IONIC module for bank 1
2) TCM's

Vehicle is 2008 with under 90k miles, monitoring rod bearings through Black Stone and a careful ear everytime I am with the vehicle. Rod bearing are actually what prompted me to purchase an engine first. When the time comes, I am going to swap the entire engine with a fresh unit. It is not just the rod bearings that wear. Also the main-line bearings and they are not serviceable in the vehicle. After now going through 5 engines and researching extensively, I have learned a LOT about the S85 and will continue until I find something else that drives my passion for engines....could be a diesel OM642 (have in my GL350)....or an M156. What ever happens, I am keeping my E60 M5, it is GLORIOUS! The sounds it can make and the performance available make me smile and do not care if I have to turn bolts and spend a few dollars. A 3rd party shop will NEVER see this car unless it needs tires only!

I am in a unique position because I started buying engines before finding and committing to buy an actual vehicle. As a result, I have extra parts for testing. I will first try a used "bank 1" IONIC module and see how vehicle runs. I have 4 modules, so I can also test them for functionality in the future!

For longer support as I will not be "on-call" I want to address the TCM codes. At that point easy to do fuel injectors and they SCARE me after witnessing two of my blocks with bent rods and scored cylinders (aka hydro lock). Had plugs out in the fall and they looked acceptable, but also a maintenance item so I ordered a set and will replace with the fuel injectors. My long-term plan is to service/swap fuel injectors with a certified set at each spark-plug interval.

Any advise/comment always appreciated.....and yes, I ramble on a bit.


Cheers,
P-Chi
 

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The injectors scare me too and that's why years ago I installed a mechanical fuel pressure gauge in the engine compartment. When I park in the garage, I lift the hood to hook up my cetek battery charger and observe the fuel gauge at 80psi with the engine off. It stays at 80 for hours. If I had an injector leak, I'd see it decreasing after shutdown. I'm hoping that will allow me to catch it in time.
 

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Hello B767capt

PLEASE post and send pics!

Thank you for your insight.

Fly strait and true!

P-Chi
Here is a sloppy thread to where I found some of my initial post on my setup.
I found the post where I initially did this mod. Back in 2013 and don't remember any of the part#'s but found where I had listed them.
2788 Fuel delivery pressure to low post #12.
The adapter is here Aeromotive 15120: Quick Connect Fitting 5/16" - JEGS High Performance
Don't buy a liquid filled gauge as the engine heat expands the oil and gives you incorrect reading plus it leaks from the heat expansion. The dry gauge I have now has been perfect for the last 8 years.

Boom goes the dynamite...Stuck open... post 361. A video here I made too, cold idle to hot idle.

Possible fuel pump issue go to post 12. It's mounted on the cross brace tube in the engine compartment that goes to the strut tower.
 

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I do not yet have the BMW ISTA or other software/diagnostic program on my computer, but would like to get and learn soon. Can you/anyone point me in the right direction?
You can download the software and datens files for free here: Downloads

I was able to get it up and running on my laptop by carefully following the instructions that come with the download.
 
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E60 M5 and building engines
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Care to share what have you found? Afaik there's been no reports of in service failures (unlike the s65).
Hello flacoramos,

We covered on another post where you were collecting data, but posted below for all, TWO different engines in my care, not from internet. Not much information because many engines are not torn down to the block.

Also finally got the chance to take some pics of the VANOS H.P. pump gears for another thread. I will post them there and hope to stick to original subject of maintenance with intake boxes off on this one.

NOTE: These pics are from two diferent engines that suffered a hydo-lock condition that bent rods and scored bores. It is VERY possible that the resulting excess damaged to bearings are a result....no way to know for sure as I do not have the maintenance history for either engine.

Cheers,
P-Chi
 

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Hello Alan,

Thank you for such a detailed response and love to share information and get feedback.

I should have been more clear in my plan. I am in Michigan, car is in FL and my dad will use as a daily driver (limited miles), but it started acting up in the spring of 2021. I went to FL in the fall for vacation and checked the car. The previous owner left a Schwaben scanner that is supposed to be perfect for BMW's of this era, but I found it less useful than most. I did not bring my Autel scanner and like to look at live data.

I do not yet have the BMW ISTA or other software/diagnostic program on my computer, but would like to get and learn soon. Can you/anyone point me in the right direction?

NOTE: codes I did get were misfire on Cyl-2 and throttle position out of range. I tried new coils, and no help. This leads me to believe I may be chasing two issues.
1) IONIC module for bank 1
2) TCM's

Vehicle is 2008 with under 90k miles, monitoring rod bearings through Black Stone and a careful ear everytime I am with the vehicle. Rod bearing are actually what prompted me to purchase an engine first. When the time comes, I am going to swap the entire engine with a fresh unit. It is not just the rod bearings that wear. Also the main-line bearings and they are not serviceable in the vehicle. After now going through 5 engines and researching extensively, I have learned a LOT about the S85 and will continue until I find something else that drives my passion for engines....could be a diesel OM642 (have in my GL350)....or an M156. What ever happens, I am keeping my E60 M5, it is GLORIOUS! The sounds it can make and the performance available make me smile and do not care if I have to turn bolts and spend a few dollars. A 3rd party shop will NEVER see this car unless it needs tires only!

I am in a unique position because I started buying engines before finding and committing to buy an actual vehicle. As a result, I have extra parts for testing. I will first try a used "bank 1" IONIC module and see how vehicle runs. I have 4 modules, so I can also test them for functionality in the future!

For longer support as I will not be "on-call" I want to address the TCM codes. At that point easy to do fuel injectors and they SCARE me after witnessing two of my blocks with bent rods and scored cylinders (aka hydro lock). Had plugs out in the fall and they looked acceptable, but also a maintenance item so I ordered a set and will replace with the fuel injectors. My long-term plan is to service/swap fuel injectors with a certified set at each spark-plug interval.

Any advise/comment always appreciated.....and yes, I ramble on a bit.


Cheers,
P-Chi
Awesome reply, as you can see lots of help out there.

I have had many misfires and use the same method each time so I know for sure what was causing it. The smoothness page in INPA is the one I observe. There is also a TA test that can be observed. I would fix the TA first as it causes all sorts of weird things to happen.

I carry spare coils and with the plastic covers off I can swap almost any one in seconds.
 

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E60 M5 and building engines
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Awesome reply, as you can see lots of help out there.

I have had many misfires and use the same method each time so I know for sure what was causing it. The smoothness page in INPA is the one I observe. There is also a TA test that can be observed. I would fix the TA first as it causes all sorts of weird things to happen.

I carry spare coils and with the plastic covers off I can swap almost any one in seconds.
Thank you Alan,

Just ordered a refurb laptop to dedicate to the cause.....and other projects. It will have Windows 10pro. Will that be an issue or is there a "virtual drive" to link older software?

Interested in loading INPA vs/and/or ISTA software/diagnostics.....I am so very short on "free time" due to lack of workers at our business.....Grrr!

Will start by following info from @GabrielD and study, and learn.

FYI: I am very proficient with computers, programming, and diagnostics, so expect the learning curve to be quick. That being stated, would still appreciate any support from the M5Board.....I like this place!...and hope I have much to give back to the community.

PS: I really enjoyed your video with the throttle actuators controlled and tested. I will get there at some point....hopefully sooner than later!

Cheers,
P-Chi
 

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I have ISTA, INPA, WinKFP, and others running on a Win10Pro laptop, it’s not a problem. I installed it all myself because I didn’t want to pay for software that was already out there for free, and it took me a few days to get everything working correctly as I’m not all that tech savvy. With your proficiency it shouldn’t be an issue.
 

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E60 M5 and building engines
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have ISTA, INPA, WinKFP, and others running on a Win10Pro laptop, it’s not a problem. I installed it all myself because I didn’t want to pay for software that was already out there for free, and it took me a few days to get everything working correctly as I’m not all that tech savvy. With your proficiency it shouldn’t be an issue.
Hello N_Rob,

New laptop arrives on Wednesday. Planning to do uploads on the weekend. Any short-cuts/sites that can help.

Very much appreciate your comments...

Still want to keep this post on the parts cannon and while your are in there, but again....Thanks!

P-Chi
 
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