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F10 feels like driving a boat

12K views 45 replies 29 participants last post by  M5 Authority 
#1 ·
I hate to criticize but I felt I had to leave my impressions of the new design as everyone is so excited about the new M5 that will be released soon. I am having some work done on the beast at the dealer and they gave me a 2011 535i as a loaner. First impressions looking at the car was that it is a huge vehicle and rather conservative looking. I've had the car for 2 days now and have been absolutely unimpressed by the driving experience. The car seems really large with too much space between the front driver and passenger seats, rather Cadillac like. The intimacy of the e39 is nowhere to be found. The suspension is too soft and wallows all over the road, as it reminds me of the old Lincoln Town Cars from the 80s and 90s. I used to love renting those babies on business trips, the smoothest drive ever. It's a bit annoying also with an ever changing gear shifting transmission. Even the and brake is an electronic button. I am barely 6 ft and 180 pounds, but while driving I felt like a 300 pound slob trying to stop myself from falling asleep a meal of steak and mashed potatoes. Sure...the F10 M5 will have a totally different suspension but I just can't imagine have a vehicle of that size with more than 550 or so horses spiriting along the byways the way the e39 M5 does. The vehicle feels as though it weighs 10 tons. Even my wife commented that she would be glad when I got my own car out of the shop. I don't understand the direction of BMW but I guess you can't argue with sales figures since they are up quite a bit. I think quite simply the e39 was an anomaly that can't be repeated or replaced. And those that take care of the ones they have will be able to take solace in the unique and unbeatable qualities of the e39. Hopefully my first test drive of the F10 M5 will change my mind.
Cheers.
 
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#2 ·
Interesting....

I don't understand why BMW keeps making these cars bigger and bigger.....
 
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#4 ·
Alexander Palevsky pans the F10 550 big time in the new issue of Bimmer magazine. He also says however that the 535 with manual, sport package and dynamic handling package is a great experience.
 
#5 ·
I test drove the 535i the other day.
At first, my impressions were the same - big, chunky, and slow. It also has 8 gears which I thought was a bit ridiculous.
However, I began enjoying the ride from a different perspective after driving around for a little.
Basically never had to touch the shifter once it was put in gear, which now requires less effort than ever.
It has this new function with the brakes where you press a button and it electronically sets the brakes on for you. You can keep your foot off the brake pedal while you wait for the green light.
The iDrive is very nice and the buttons are perfectly placed.
It has definitely become more of a luxury car. I could see many people enjoying this newer side of BMW.

Personally, I don't agree with the direction BMW is going, but they probably have to keep up with the market.
I'm sure the M5 is still a blast to drive. However, I feel that the F10 is too big to be a manual car.
 
#6 ·
Yes, I agree, too big to be a manual. If it were a second car... maybe, but a daily driver, no way. Years ago I drove the e39 528i and that had the nice balance between luxury and sport. Not as good as the 540 of course but nice all the same. These vehicles are made for a different generation. The seat...make that the couch is just so damn wide. And to be able to see the front hood so high while driving is just a stark difference from the e39 where the front hood just disappears when looking out the front window.
Again...sales figures tell BMW they are on the right track but for me individually, Mercedes Benz would be the car for me if a large luxo vehicle was my flavor but presently it is not. I'll hold onto my e39 M5 but I am done with BMW. I wish them the best but they have moved in a direction that does not suit me.
Cheers,
JP
 
#7 ·
Yes, I agree, too big to be a manual.
I don't know what that means. Large semi trucks have manual transmissions... :confused2

I've written about the F10 many times already so I'm not going to repeat myself here. I will add that it weighs roughly as much as the E39 M5 and is only a few inches longer (both wheelbase and the car itself). However, the styling makes it look and feel much much larger than that. And those few inches in the wheelbase do make a huge difference.

The electric parking brake annoys me more and more every day. If I want to roll the car out of the garage (say to wash it or get the motorcycle out) I have to go find the key and turn the car on just to release the brake. And a lot of automatic equipped F10 owners (which is probably 98%) have complained about the constant shifting - another reason I ordered mine with the far superior manual transmission as God intended.

Michael
 
#9 ·
#11 ·
Unfortunately, seems the way lots of cars are going

Not sure what % of BMW, Audi & Merc sales are in the US, but seems like more and more the dynamics, styling and content are geared towards us buyers. Unfortunately, it seems like most US buyers don't value performance as much as they do comfort & not having to be involved in driving. How else do you explain all the electronic non-sense: lane departure warning, automatic braking/collsion avoidance, active cruise control, wake the idiot up alert, etc. What the hell happened to actually DRIVING the car and paying attention to what you were doing?

If I had a dollar for every time some bimbo driving an X5, Jag, or LR has nearly taken me out becuase she's blabbing away on her cell, failing to signal and then turning right into the nail salon from the left lane.... grrrr.
 
#13 ·
Not sure what % of BMW, Audi & Merc sales are in the US, but seems like more and more the dynamics, styling and content are geared towards us buyers. Unfortunately, it seems like most US buyers don't value performance as much as they do comfort & not having to be involved in driving. How else do you explain all the electronic non-sense: lane departure warning, automatic braking/collsion avoidance, active cruise control, wake the idiot up alert, etc. What the hell happened to actually DRIVING the car and paying attention to what you were doing?

If I had a dollar for every time some bimbo driving an X5, Jag, or LR has nearly taken me out becuase she's blabbing away on her cell, failing to signal and then turning right into the nail salon from the left lane.... grrrr.
You are right, especially about people being able to DRIVE the car instead of being driven by it.

But look at the U.S. from a driving perspective? Even on the "opne road", speed limits of 65 or 70 mph if you are lucky. No where to stretch a cars legs. No need to be involved (like say the autobahn) because people have no lane discipline, no awareness of surrounds and no real need for top end. So to while away the time, you get all kinds of electronic gizmos, gazillion watt stereos, heat/cool/ massaging seats, cupholders (ok, I like mine in the morning for coffee on my 65 mph highway jaunt to the office), lane departure warning (what, I was supposed to stay in my lane all by myself?), automatic braking (what, I have to judge stopping distances and decide how HARD to push the brakes, even with ABS since you can't even lock up the brakes in most situations), etc.

Yup, not really a surprise, but no less a disappointment. There will be a niche for car companies that can still put out an exciting product that the driver drives. I would have to say the Porsche is still in the lead, although they have to keep up with other car companies too.....

Regards,
Jerry
 
#12 ·
Sounds like your loaner doesn't have the proper set up. Mike Miller at Bimmer Magazine said, "That BMW actually makes such a car available without an M badge is heartening because it shows that the company is still making cars for us, the serious drivers of the world".

His 535i had 6 speed manual, Sport and Dynamic Handling packages.
 
#14 ·
Mike Miller at Bimmer Magazine said, "That BMW actually makes such a car available without an M badge is heartening because it shows that the company is still making cars for us, the serious drivers of the world".
Palevsky said the same thing about the 535 Sport -- must be a world of difference between that and the non sport and 550.
 
#17 ·
The eating binge is over

I say eating binge because the car makes me feel like I weigh 300 pounds. Got the beast back with a new rear suspension. Life is good again. It's amazing getting into the beast after driving the F10. For the first 5 or so minutes the beast felt like a little go cart. Really weird. The beast is just so nimble and quick with a suspension that seems to be energized as I jaunt around corners and stab in and out of traffic....couldn't help myself since the cars been stuck at the dealer for 3 days. I had a ball driving home today. The beast is simply "the bomb!"
 
#18 ·
I say eating binge because the car makes me feel like I weigh 300 pounds. Got the beast back with a new rear suspension. Life is good again. It's amazing getting into the beast after driving the F10. For the first 5 or so minutes the beast felt like a little go cart. Really weird. The beast is just so nimble and quick with a suspension that seems to be energized as I jaunt around corners and stab in and out of traffic....couldn't help myself since the cars been stuck at the dealer for 3 days. I had a ball driving home today. The beast is simply "the bomb!"
I can't wait to get my car back from the shop. It's probably going to be another 2 weeks.
Currently, I'm driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The difference is huge.
Driving at the speed limit in the beast seemed impossible, but it seems like the speed limit is all the Jeep can handle.
 
#23 ·
Oh goodness, bring on the boats. I'm going to go test drive an F10 in the near future thanks to this thread.
 
#28 ·
Actually I think my bone stock minivan handles better than the new 550. And yes, I test drove one with the "M Sport package" and "Mixed Performance Tires".
 
#29 ·
LOL he changed his name ^^
 
#30 ·
Yup, my petition worked though, its now only 45 posts to contact a member. The petition was taken down. Search: "Banned Intergalos Blue M5" for more info (notice there's no BMW in the name). That username is still banned and I can't take it down.
 
#31 ·
Courtesy of R&T Data Panels

e39 M5 - 394hp, 368lb-ft, Curb 3900 lbs, Test Weight - 4040 lbs, Length 188.3 in, Width 70.9 in, Height 56.6 in, Wheelbase 111.4 in - 13.3s @ 108.5 mph.
e60 M5 - 500hp, 383lb-ft, Curb 4035 lbs, Test Weight - 4215 lbs, Length 191.5 in, Width 72.7 in, Height 57.8 in, Wheelbase 113.7 in - 12.4s @ 115.8 mph.
f10 550i -400hp, 440lb-ft, Curb 4410 lbs, Test Weight -4590 lbs, Length 193.1 in, Width 73.2 in, Height 57.6 in, Wheelbase 116.9 in - 13.4s @ 106.8 mph.
e90 335i -300hp, 300lb-ft, Curb 3570 lbs, Test Weight - 3745 lbs, Length 178.4 in, Width 71.5 in, Height 55.9 in, Wheelbase 108.7 in - 13.3s @ 105.7 mph

All the test weights are with driver - better indicator of power to weight anyway.

So the e90 3 series is considerably smaller than the e39 5.

If we use the X6 as an indicator - take:
X6 50i - curb @ 2390kg
X6M - curb @ 2415kg

So the F10 M5 should be around 25kg MORE than the F10 550i

The f10 M5 will be a VERY heavy car.

How do we get down to the 3000lb mark?
 
#34 ·
Yep, given unlimited millions, I'm sure you could make what started as an E39 M5 run the 1/4 in much less than 10 seconds. But then it wouldn't be the rounded brilliant-at-everything car it is.
 
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#36 ·
Yep, it's all relative really. The newer cars will always feel like boats compared to the last models. That's just the way things are going these days. Even so, the numbers at the track steadily improve. I can say my E39 M5 felt very boat like when it first replaced my E34 M5. The E39 is obviously much faster is every respect though. Now on the other side of the coin, this "faster at the track at the expense of lightness and feel" is great for the numbers in the magazines but terrible for the everyday driver. Take my last 2 cars again.. Getting from point A to B in my e39 might take 30 minutes and be quite an uneventful experience. To make the same trip and time in my E34 would require more of the car and thus more engagement (fun) on my part. That's hard to market though.
 
#37 ·
Funny, I never thought M cars handled badly, especially when compared to their non M brethern. Their strength is that they always handle so well, they feel hundreds of pounds lighter than they are. Do we really think the engineers are going to have the f10 M5 feel like a boat? hmmm

I am going to weight (pun intentional) and see, although it may be heavy, I bet it feels 400-500 lbs lighter than its actual weight.

Regards,
Jerry
 
#39 ·
Funny, I never thought M cars handled badly, especially when compared to their non M brethern. Their strength is that they always handle so well, they feel hundreds of pounds lighter than they are. Do we really think the engineers are going to have the f10 M5 feel like a boat? hmmm

I am going to weight (pun intentional) and see, although it may be heavy, I bet it feels 400-500 lbs lighter than its actual weight.

Regards,
Jerry
Thath's the million dollar question. If I new it for fact I'd be alot more excited. They made the X6M handle well (declared better handling than CTS-V and PORSCHE PANAMERA TURBO!). I don't have a deposit down on one and won't until I drive it first hand.
See link for article: 2011 BMW X6 M vs 2011 Cadillac CTS-V vs 2011 Porsche Panamera Turbo - Comparison - Motor Trend
 
#41 ·
Kinder, I fear you missed my point above. It's possible, of course it is. There's little doubt that stripping the interior and fitting carbon buckets would reduce the weight massively, electric seats being hugely heavy of course. Replace bonnet and boot with carbon items. Strip out all the sound insulation. It's not rocket science. But then it isn't the car we all love.

My self and NealH both posted on our previous cars forum about our new cars, and several replies came through in the shape of 'my car's faster than an M5'. No doubt. But it isn't an M5, it doesn't have space and comfort, and quality, TOGETHER WITH amazing pace when you fancy. Absolute pace in numbers isn't always the most important thing with a daily driver, it's the greatness of the balance between everything.

And as a by-the-by on size increasing over generations, I followed a Toyota Hi-Lux home last night, damn, even those things are twice as big as the original...
 
#42 · (Edited)
I know what you meant ;) The M5 was my "ultimate" car since I first saw her on a test when I was 18. It was the "car to buy and to own" when I will be able to afford it. I bought her 4 months ago now.

This was just an "extreme" example of a track M5, but I will never do that to my car :eek: This car is just too perfect, even after 12 years lovelove

Back on topic, the increasing size is not just BMW, all the manufacturers tend to increase the size of their car. For example (I will pick french cars since I live in France :D ), the Peugeot 207 is bigger and larger than the 206, same with the Renault Clio 2 and 3 and so on. Is it just a "trend" ? Because the cars are not more confortable :D
 
#43 ·
Cool, Kinder, no probs :)

I've said it before but the Golf GTi is another example of both bloat and change of marketing focus over time. Interestingly now though, genuine hot hatches seem be coming back, and the motoring press seem think they've discovered a secret formula, it's just what was around in the 80's.
 
#44 ·
I think we are forgetting the simple fact that as Americans- been the biggest market- get fatter and more lazy- they expect the car to be all things.

Just does not work that way. More comfort for bigger people and a never ceasing need for luxury and safety crap means more weight and bigger car.

If the market overall wanting a Pure Driving Machine in a 5 series BMW would give it to us- but very few would buy it.

The develop for the masses not us.

My E39 is brilliant and when thrown around really does feel nimble, you can make it really dance in the corners. Just remember its not a thrash metal song it likes to dance with. More of a smooth high speed waltz.

Every generation gets bigger and so does the cars- the simple solution is to buy the model that fits size wise. The e90 really is a e39 size wise- esp if the e39 is not obese with options, stereos etc.

My 540i weighs with half fuel and me onboard at 80kg - it is 1740kg. so a dry weight of about 1630kg. Plenty of e90's come in at that weight with a few options.

As far as power goes, mine has 300hp and that is more than enough. More would be nice but for fast driving that is plenty, if you want more speed- become a better driver.

For me the Jury is out on the f10 till the m5 arrives- but it had better be brilliant to ever want to swap it for my e39.

I think the E39 will probably be the Zenith of all 5 series, the perfect blend of wants and needs- a engineers car, not a marketers car.

Just my opinion.

Monty
 
#45 ·
I was wrong!!!!

Hi folks. I started this thread after my frustration and serious dissapointment with a loaner f10 535. Yesterday in Federal Hill, Baltimore I saw a new Blue 550i and was blown away. It looked "way better" as it seemed lower with fatter tires. I was standing outside Cross Street Tabacco enjoying an Alec Bradley when everyone just stopped in mid-puff, wondering what is that coming down the street. We all seemed to exhale in unison as it passed and we could see the 550i moniker on the back. One could only imagine what an M5 would look like...Stunning! So...i'd like to give my early apologies as the new M5 may be the best one yet...rendering the e39 as no longer the best M5 ever. The videos of the spinning wheels and launch control....leads me to believe that a knockout blow is on the way for the likes of the CTS-V, Jag XVwhatever, Hemiwhoever, etc etc. And if I could end this post on a musical note, it would be with the classic from the late Grover Washington Jr....The best is yet to come.
Cheers
 
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