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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
For those that have suffered through all the eisenhaus-meisterschaft / eisenmann threads in recent months,

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115429

the following thesis contends eisenhaus uses their shell company in asia to aquire exhausts, then produces knock offs of them under a marketing strategy disguised as a european/german R&D operation with the appropriate german type names and associations - you be the judge...


I think you should be aware of, two points;

a) I have been contacted by a vendor who has been approached by a company affiliated/owned by the parent company of Eisenhaus, to ask for SINGLE, specific model of an eisenamnn exhaust to be shipped to them. The only plausable reason, albeit my clear assumption, to tear it apart, duplicate it and market under the meisterschaft name. This is a serious claim by me, not done recklessly however;

email asking for part;

Hello, Our comopany is korean auto parts importer which has been imported from Eisenhaus in USA.
Thesedays we were informed by Eisenhaus that can not supply Eisenmann exhaust system.
So we would like to know we can get your exhaust system from you directly.
We have some urgent item that ordered to Eisenhaus long time ago but by now we did not get our order and we just get it the information that Eisenhaus can not supply it.
Please let me know you can supply to us.
Specially please let me know the price and delivery time of the following item if you can supply this.

**Inquiry**
1. BMW E90/91/92 (3-Series) 328i/xi (Cabrio) [2006+] Racing Performance 4x70 mm (Round)

If you have any question for us please let me know anytime and please don't hesitate to contact to us.
I am looking forwards to hearing from you very soon.
Many thanks
Best regards
Lucy Jeong
Import Division.
Cybercreative.co.kr
T. 822-569-9510
F. 822-569-9513


...and now some info from the US side of this from the Illinois Secretary of State - guess who, same group;

<TABLE class=printerfriendly cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=730 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=2>LLC FILE DETAIL REPORT</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><HR class=blue SIZE=1><TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=5 width=655 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=150 bgColor=#99ccff>Entity Name</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=200>CYBER CREATIVE, LLC</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175 bgColor=#99ccff>File Number</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175>01519298</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=150 bgColor=#99ccff>Status</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=200>INVOLUNTARY DISSOLUTION</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175 bgColor=#99ccff>On</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175>11/09/2007</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=150 bgColor=#99ccff>Entity Type</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=200>LLC</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175 bgColor=#99ccff>Type of LLC</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175>Domestic</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=150 bgColor=#99ccff>File Date</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=200>05/23/2005</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175 bgColor=#99ccff>Jurisdiction</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175>IL</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=150 bgColor=#99ccff>Agent Name</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=200>SOODONG CHOI</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175 bgColor=#99ccff>Agent Change Date</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175>05/23/2005</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=150 bgColor=#99ccff>Agent Street Address</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=200>990 RIVER DR STE 200</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175 bgColor=#99ccff>Principal Office</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175>351 COUNTRY CLUB DR
BENSENVILLE 60106



</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=150 bgColor=#99ccff>Agent City</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=200>GLENVIEW</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175 bgColor=#99ccff>Management Type</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175>MBR</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=150 bgColor=#99ccff>Agent Zip</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=200>60025</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175 bgColor=#99ccff>Dissolution Date</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175>PERPETUAL</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=150 bgColor=#99ccff>Annual Report Filing Date</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=200>00/00/0000</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175 bgColor=#99ccff>For Year</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=175>2007</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=150 bgColor=#99ccff>Series Name</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #336699 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336699 1px solid" vAlign=top width=550 colSpan=3>NOT AUTHORIZED TO ESTABLISH SERIES</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

b) just as troubling, both eisenhaus and vividracing have been told in nice ways, that they have a number of misleading depictions of meisterschaft products that are actually eisenmann on their websites. Despite their claims to do their best to clean up their act, almost a month later, it's all still there. One example;

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by iconoclast
i did pay a visit to your site, and that post is made off of my findings on the site... the clips are still eisenmann exhausts, and a few of the pics are still eisenmann/kelleners...

http://www.eisenhaus.com/ehprice.php...36&Submit.y=13

video 1 is 'eisenmann race'
video 2 is 'eisenmann race in action'
video 3 is 'eisenmann race in actionII'
video 4 is 'eisenmann race application'
video 5 is 'eisenmann race application installed'
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

From my point of view, imho, this illustrates a very suspect behavior, and frankly I am dissappointed in them, but I guess not completely surprised.

I just hope enough folks get the word that buyer beware...

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Well I couldn't resist - - today I called that 'Cybercreative' in Korea...

Talked to a lady for awhile, asked why the website wasn't working she said it was down. I told her I was a USA distributor, small local company, and wanted to know what they could provide. Well she was wondering how I got the number, so I said it was a friend that was also in the business, and gave me a few different numbers of companies that could possibly provide mufflers...

She mentioned they have many options available, what was I interested in, well I played that my main market was US car mufflers to keep the chat going, I asked if they any part of the process was in China, and she said no, all here in Korea.

So far so good, then I asked if they could provide high end BMW exhausts - uh oh, the tone changed, was not wiling to talk to me further, she started asking questions/got suspicious, so was told I needed to talk to the boss, so I said I'd call tomorrow....not.

Made me think of that website alibaba,

http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?Type=SALE%2CAGENT%2CMISC&ssk=y&year=&month=&location=&keyword=&SearchText=mufflers&Country=KR&srchLocation=&srchYearMonth=&IndexArea=offer_en&CatId=34

where you can go and see all kinds of manufacturers worldwide, so with the right contacts, some capitol to get started, a good model or two to copy, a slick website and marketing angle, it's almost like printing money...
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
well we all had our suspicions, what the heck, I might as well get it all out...

...the inside story is they courted, started ther relationship with eisenmann, had no experience with aftermarket exhaust, had no internal development process, the owner copied supersprint and eisenmann systems, cutting them open and stealing the internal designs, after a few years got their hand caught in the cookie jar mixing names on products they had produced in asia at a fraction of the cost, they continue to grow and develop their product lines now under their own label, all originally based on stolen knowledge, exploited, fraudulent relationships eventually severed by eisenmann, kelleners, and anyone else that found out what they were up to...

...they continue to survive throught their slick marketing etc - despite their place of business being a warehouse, no work going on, cars they sell being others, one layer of scam on top of another... ...nothing more than a shell company, slick website.

...the companies harmed by them have no interest in fighting them, spending money in US courts, and some vendors are still pushing their products to the unsuspecting public despite the effforts of many here on this and other boards...

...and all of that my friends is not my humble opinion, it's all facts, I've been doing my work over the months, communicated with the companies, engaging the issue here, discussing it with people very close to the operation, having board membes visit the place, verify issues..., it's all true, and all too tragic.

I have nothing to gain, no personal or hidden agenda, never met eisenmann or kelleners, don't have any of their stuff on my car, the only relationship to Germany is I happen to be working here - it's just plain wrong when car enthusiasts, as well as honest people involved in the field we all enjoy, get taken by wiesels, it just makes me ill...


the only think I can think of is for those that did get ripped to let the Illinois Attourney General know about them;

http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/consumers/conscomp.pdf



...other than that, I'm burnt out, out of ideas
 

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The link doesn't work
 
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Maybe I didn't read this carefully enough, but if they want an exhaust, why don't they just order it as an individual enthusiast rather than going through the long preamble?
 

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Maybe I didn't read this carefully enough, but if they want an exhaust, why don't they just order it as an individual enthusiast rather than going through the long preamble?
This is a bit strange. It's not like exhaust systems are subject to export controls like munitions or high technology. If you wanted to copy an industrial good like a car exhaust, why not just pay an individual to buy one on the retail market and then reverse engineer it? Not saying this is right, but how hard can that be? :confused2
 
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