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As promised, here's the tear down analysis of Tony's old motor that left him stranded on the way to ECFest.

For background see Tony's thread here:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/253505-engine-gone-89k-miles.html

After Tony was told that there were metal shavings in his oil pan, he was left with the sad news that he would need a replacement motor. I offered to inspect the motor to see the extent of the damage and determine if it was rebuildable. After a phone call to go over what exactly the tear down would entail and details on delivery, the motor was picked up from SonicMS in Mountain View, CA and brought over to my garage.


Picking up the motor from SonicMS






Already stripped of many parts...


Oil pan had a small leak from the front due to a hairline crack.




Loaded up into the delivery vehicle along with the SMG trans, which had the mounting tabs broken off.


Dropped off at my garage.



90-degree S85 V10 mounted on the stand.


Noticed some coolant seeping from thermostat housing. This was due to a hardened gasket. Common problem. The gasket fell to pieces when the housing was removed.


Oil pan off. Let's get to work.


The first order of business was to check the oil pump drive for damage. The VANOS oil pump looks normal.




The sprocket for the main oil pump was intact. There were no signs of failure here either.


The bottom end and oil still left in the engine looked fairly clean. Front half:


Back half:


Spot check of #4 rod bearing. The bearing is fairly worn and shows quite a bit of scoring.


That means the oil pump has to come off.


Another sign of trouble: oil pump pickup screen caught some metal shavings:


#1 rod bearing. The first sign of trouble here was that the bearing had turned springy and had to be pried off the crankpin. After it was removed, it was clear that the bearing was severely worn and no longer fit into the rod.




The crank was also scored from metal on metal contact.


The #2 rod bearing was similar (no pic).
This is the #3 rod bearing. It was similar to #4, showing wear and scoring. The #3/4 pair was the least worn pair of bearings in the motor.


#5 and #6 bearings. Severely worn and like the first pair, grabbed the crankpin and wouldn't fit in the big end of the rod anymore.




#7 and #8 bearings. Same story.




The #9 and #10 bearings were by far the worst in the motor. Both bearings were spun.
This is #9 after removing the end cap. The bearing shells rotated so the gap is 90 degrees off.


The #9 bearing and end cap were scorched.


#10 was almost as badly damaged.


And here's a video showing how much play there was in #9.

So the failure is similar to many others we've seen on the board. The good news is that the motor still looks rebuildable, but unfortunately it won't be as simple as replacing the rod bearings.
 

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Wow they look way worse than mine did :eek:oohhh:, Tony must have some serious driving habits :3:
 

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If I remember Tony changes his every 7k or thereabouts but I am sure he will chime in.
 

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This engine looks really clean in the inside, I think oil change intervals were not a factor in this bearing failure.
 

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Wow! Very curious on possible reasons to cause the bearings to end up like that.
 

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subscribed ...

the build up was great - like a sherlock holmes novel ... I was half waiting for - and couldnt find anything that wrong !
 

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Wow! Very curious on possible reasons to cause the bearings to end up like that.
Engineering trade-offs. BMW was so excited to stuff a V-10 in the E60, they had to make tradeoffs for overall engine length to a more conservative design factor. They were focused on keeping the engine block length short.

This is no surprise to the S54 crowd, at least BMW improved the rod bearing design there. The S62 crowd has seen it and now the S65 too. I don't think anyone at M is overly suprised, based on member Duschanio's comments as he has done rod bearing swaps on numerous S85 and S65 engines now and is friends with at least one engineer there. There are superceded part numbers on the S85 rod bearings, so maybe something was quietly improved there as well.

Rod bearing changes can be done with the engine in the car and although not a casual DIY, the potential savings outweighs the cost of labor down the road.
 

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cyberkaa,

So I'm assuming from here, the bedplate gets split and the crankshaft replaced. Any feelings on what the crank journals will look like?
 

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There are superceded part numbers on the S85 rod bearings, so maybe something was quietly improved there as well.
Off the top of your head, do you know when that change took place? Any way to compare the two part numbers side by side?

Realoem doesn't have the most detailed pictures.
 

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Off the top of your head, do you know when that change took place? Any way to compare the two part numbers side by side?

Realoem doesn't have the most detailed pictures.
So, strangely, RealOEM has dropped part no. 3 which was the blue (upper) bearing shell since I jotted down my shopping list a few months ago. Hopefully they're just updating the database. However, search the red (lower) (11247838088) on Tischler and you'll see the old and new part numbers for it. Now, take the new part number (11247841702) and search for it's usage on RealOEM in the application field and viola! Surprised? BMW like any company sees better ROI when reusing parts on multiple platforms, so the bearings are common to the S65. Since RealOEM doesn't list the application on the E60, the E92 shows the correct part numbers for the new shells. Oddly though, there is no preceded part number. I wonder if this is a sign that the new bearing design was introduced on the S65 and then included on the S85 from then on?
 

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This is what i saying every time and nobody believe me ;) change your bearings ... i mean here are so many guys who polish and look for their car but what is more useful a running engine or a polished car ;))

Its difficult to write that in english now :

The bearings were changed in their material becouse the old bearings had a part of lead..
From 2012 no bearing shells may be used with lead constituents !

But the new bearings also will have a problem ;) ... so you must change it with 80-100 kilometers to be on the sure side !

It will be so nice when i can write in german then i can explain more .. :(
 

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This is what i saying every time and nobody believe me ;) change your bearings ... i mean here are so many guys who polish and look for their car but what is more useful a running engine or a polished car ;))

Its difficult to write that in english now :

The bearings were changed in their material becouse the old bearings had a part of lead..
From 2012 no bearing shells may be used with lead constituents !

But the new bearings also will have a problem ;) ... so you must change it with 80-100 kilometers to be on the sure side !

It will be so nice when i can write in german then i can explain more .. :(
My friend, you post whatever you like here in German, I'm sure we have someone here who can translate it! You have some very valuable experience and insight and you have friends in very useful places...I have about 1000 questions I would like to ask them!

The lead factor does not surprise me. It has been used for years in bearings, but I suppose alternatives are needed now. Envorinmental concernes are a bit ironic on a car that gets 8 MPG in town, don't you think?
 

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Some interesting reads here and here.

And a very interesting post from Sal or Imran possibly? (Spill it you guys! ;) ) in post number #64

I would be interested to see comparisons of those use non-Castrol oil on their cars.

Maybe I'll go start an oil thread in the E39 section. :hihi:
 

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Some interesting reads here and here.

And a very interesting post from Sal or Imran possibly? (Spill it you guys! ;) ) in post number #64

I would be interested to see comparisons of those use non-Castrol oil on their cars.

Maybe I'll go start an oil thread in the E39 section. :hihi:

Been a member on bimmerboost for a while. Have some smart and good tech guys on there!
 

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I would be interested to see comparisons of those use non-Castrol oil on their cars.

Maybe I'll go start an oil thread in the E39 section. :hihi:
Hmm...I've been running Motul in both my s62 and s85 for the last 60,000 and 40,000 miles, at 3000ish intervals respectively. I'm about to send some samples to Blackstone with my next change.
 

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If I remember Tony changes his every 7k or thereabouts but I am sure he will chime in.
Yeah I change my oil every 7500 miles or so. All oil changes were done at the dealer with exception of the last one which was done by Dinan at about 86K miles; ~2500 miles before engine failure.

One thing that could have lead up to the early failure is that I like to drive with my rpms in the 3K-4K range and hardly used 7th gear. :eek:oohhh: Not sure if that's the reason but definitely changed my driving style with the replacement motor.

Thanks so much to Kalim for the tear down work. Now hopefully someone would want the motor with this full disclosure.
 

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My oil pan is coming off at 60k miles for a bearing inspection/replacement, do we know how long the main bearings last?
 

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Rod bearing changes can be done with the engine in the car and although not a casual DIY, the potential savings outweighs the cost of labor down the road.
Do you happen to know where one could get information on the high level steps that are involved in replacing the bearings with the motor in the car? Or at least a DIY on how to inspect the bearings? How reliable is having the oil tested by some one like Blackstone, can they really give you and idea of how worn the bearings are?
 
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