Finally! I just got my '01 back after 13 days at the BMW dealership. The car seemed to run fine but I got a fault code which said, "check engine soon." BMW North America determined that carbon had built up in the secondary air ports in the cylinder heads. They had to disassemble both cylinder heads and clean out the ports. It was major work which would have cost me $3,500 to $4,000 in labor plus parts like gaskets if the car were not still under warranty. What scares me is that this car has only got 17,000 miles on the clock! What I want to know is if anybody else on this board has experienced this carbon build up problem and if so, at what mileage? The service manager told me that BMW doesn't know why the carbon built up and that furthermore, there is no guarantee it won't happen again. This car goes out of warranty in July, and I don't fancy paying $4,000 to disassemble the motor again in another 17,000 miles of driving. The service manager himself wants to know if anybody else is having or has had this problem. Thanks for any input.
Engine Problems at 17,000 miles?
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Re: Engine Problems at 17,000 miles!!!???
This type of carbon buildup is common in cars that see lots of short trip, low speed and/or extended cold motor idling (oil temps under 160 degrees F). Your 4K mi/yr usage pattern suggests this type of use. I would discourage short trips. Driving the car on short trips or idling to keep the engine and charging system "active" results in carbon buildup (high cholesterol levels). You are better off using a battery tender to maintain battery health. I would leave it sit without firing the motor for months at a time, unless I could get it out and stretch it's legs with some medium to hard throttle use for 1/2 hr or more. This is what an M car needs. The camshafts, emissions system and induction are not optimized for putzing, so your engine is already showing clogged arteries. The car is tuned for severe duty. Cars that regularly see hard throttle & higher RPM seldom exhibit these symptoms.Norgeiron said:
Re: Engine Problems at 17,000 miles!!!???
yes there have been a handful of these show up on the board. You may want to do a search on 'carbon build up'. iirc, most were 2000 model years, i remember one poster saying that bmw told him there was a head re-design for 01 and later which i find hard to believe. Some also say they drive the car pretty hard.
Mike
yes there have been a handful of these show up on the board. You may want to do a search on 'carbon build up'. iirc, most were 2000 model years, i remember one poster saying that bmw told him there was a head re-design for 01 and later which i find hard to believe. Some also say they drive the car pretty hard.
Mike
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1,340 Posts
Re: Engine Problems at 17,000 miles!!!???
I always use shell optimax and regular use of petrol injection cleaner (That by default keeps the cylinder head cleaner) and ofcourse rev it !!cherrsagai
I always use shell optimax and regular use of petrol injection cleaner (That by default keeps the cylinder head cleaner) and ofcourse rev it !!cherrsagai
Re: Engine Problems at 17,000 miles!!!???
I've tried all fuel system cleaning products but I have seen extreme success with the LUCAS Fuel Treatment....I would try this first...
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=26&catid=2&loc=show
I've tried all fuel system cleaning products but I have seen extreme success with the LUCAS Fuel Treatment....I would try this first...
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=26&catid=2&loc=show
Re: Engine Problems at 17,000 miles!!!???
marcvip - I checked out that Lucas website and I'm confused as to the benefit of the product. Have seen substantial carbon buildup in my '00 despite half of total mileage being highway miles - so much so that little bits of soft carbon can be found in the catalyst - I don't see even a claim that it can help eliminate carbon deposits.
Anecdotally, it seems that the S62 motor is susceptible to carbon buildup. After looking at both heads my dealer and I suspect the OE Castrol to be a major contributing factor. Has anyone else who's had the heads off been surprised at the amount of carbon buildup they see?
marcvip - I checked out that Lucas website and I'm confused as to the benefit of the product. Have seen substantial carbon buildup in my '00 despite half of total mileage being highway miles - so much so that little bits of soft carbon can be found in the catalyst - I don't see even a claim that it can help eliminate carbon deposits.
Anecdotally, it seems that the S62 motor is susceptible to carbon buildup. After looking at both heads my dealer and I suspect the OE Castrol to be a major contributing factor. Has anyone else who's had the heads off been surprised at the amount of carbon buildup they see?
Re: Engine Problems at 17,000 miles!!!???
Amsoil S1 is a great additive. Also Amsoil is a great oil. I plan on switching to it on my next oil change. I use it in my E30 M3 and it works well. There is another way to remove carbon from the engine but it only works if the S62 has vacuume intake ports. The s14 and s38 have them so it works great.
Basicaly need to set up temporary a water injection system to clean out the combustion chambers. I have done this on my s38 and it worked great.
So the question is, does the s62 have this type of port? my guess is no...
Anybody??
Jordan
Amsoil S1 is a great additive. Also Amsoil is a great oil. I plan on switching to it on my next oil change. I use it in my E30 M3 and it works well. There is another way to remove carbon from the engine but it only works if the S62 has vacuume intake ports. The s14 and s38 have them so it works great.
Basicaly need to set up temporary a water injection system to clean out the combustion chambers. I have done this on my s38 and it worked great.
So the question is, does the s62 have this type of port? my guess is no...
Anybody??
Jordan
Re: Engine Problems at 17,000 miles!!!???
BKH;
The different components in a fuel additive package all have a specific job to do:
Detergent:
For the prevention & clean up of the formation of carbon deposits and other contaminants created by the incomplete combustion or fuels and lubricant residues.
These deposits can cause any of the following:
Rough idling, stumbling, stalling
Power loss
Increase in fuel consumption
Increase in emissions
Decreased engine life
Corrosion inhibitor:
For the protection of the fuel system against corrosion
Advantage:
Longer life of the fuel system
Prevents filter blocking
Demulsifier:
For separating water if present so that the water will stay at the bottom of the tank and/or fuel
filter.
Advantage:
Prevents damage to the fuel system.
Avoids bacterial growth
Prevents filter blocking
Stabilizer/anti oxidant:
For preventing darkening and further reactions causing sludge or other sediments in the fuel during the storage of the fuel.
Advantages:
Prevents filter blocking
Longer storage life of the fuel
Cetane improver:
Increases the cetane number of the fuel
Decreases the ignition delay
Improves combustion
Advantages:
Improved cold start
Reduced HC and CO
Reduced white smoke
Higher engine durability
Less diesel noise
BKH;
The different components in a fuel additive package all have a specific job to do:
Detergent:
For the prevention & clean up of the formation of carbon deposits and other contaminants created by the incomplete combustion or fuels and lubricant residues.
These deposits can cause any of the following:
Rough idling, stumbling, stalling
Power loss
Increase in fuel consumption
Increase in emissions
Decreased engine life
Corrosion inhibitor:
For the protection of the fuel system against corrosion
Advantage:
Longer life of the fuel system
Prevents filter blocking
Demulsifier:
For separating water if present so that the water will stay at the bottom of the tank and/or fuel
filter.
Advantage:
Prevents damage to the fuel system.
Avoids bacterial growth
Prevents filter blocking
Stabilizer/anti oxidant:
For preventing darkening and further reactions causing sludge or other sediments in the fuel during the storage of the fuel.
Advantages:
Prevents filter blocking
Longer storage life of the fuel
Cetane improver:
Increases the cetane number of the fuel
Decreases the ignition delay
Improves combustion
Advantages:
Improved cold start
Reduced HC and CO
Reduced white smoke
Higher engine durability
Less diesel noise
Re: Engine Problems at 17,000 miles!!!???
Marcvip, have you actually tried this additive in your beast and found it to be effective in preventing carbon build up? I'm wondering why BMW isn't recommending fuel additives for owners. Are there any negatives from the additives that M5 owners should be aware of?
Marcvip, have you actually tried this additive in your beast and found it to be effective in preventing carbon build up? I'm wondering why BMW isn't recommending fuel additives for owners. Are there any negatives from the additives that M5 owners should be aware of?
What kind of amsoil are you running? how is it working for you so far?
I know this thread is 3 years old, but BMW DOES recommend a gas additive. It is called TECHRON. It is sold by the 32 oz. bottle in BMW parts departments.
(I'm guessing here, but I don't think it is to clear or keep the secondary air carbon build up at bay. I believe it is to help keep the injectors clean.)
(I'm guessing here, but I don't think it is to clear or keep the secondary air carbon build up at bay. I believe it is to help keep the injectors clean.)
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7,305 Posts
BMWNA is ineffectual when it comes to the carbon problem in the secondary air system. They don't know what to recommend as preventative maintenance because they don't understand the issue. It comes down to poor design of the Pierburg based air pump system. The standard response of most dealers is to blame the customer for using 'bad gas', which is hogwash.
Fuel additives may help keep injectors/combustion chambers/valves clean, but do nothing for carbon in the secondary air system. I believe Norgeiron (who was one of our poster children in the carbon build up survey a couple of years ago) has since gone with the Powerchip reflash. To date, this is the only effective way of dealing with this problem.
Dave
Fuel additives may help keep injectors/combustion chambers/valves clean, but do nothing for carbon in the secondary air system. I believe Norgeiron (who was one of our poster children in the carbon build up survey a couple of years ago) has since gone with the Powerchip reflash. To date, this is the only effective way of dealing with this problem.
Dave
Well... i typed in amsoil in the search box.
People keep complaining about not using the search.
Then when other members search and have a follow up question, other members complain that it's an old thread.
So... next time should i create a new thread if i have a followup question? or do i reply to the old one? LOL
Fair question....
Reviving old tech threads is a good idea in my opinion. I do it all the time. It keeps things more organized by subject and allows topics to mature/progress to a positive result, instead of rehashing stuff over and over with scattered info & zero progress.
That said, I think directing a followup question to a former participant in a 3 year old thread hoping they reply to your post (as if it was yesterday) is a little humorous. They are more than likely driving an E60 or Hybrid now, unless it's me lol. In this case, you asked jordanti a question. fyi....he lost interest, sold his car and vanished from radar over a year ago.
Sounds fair... so he's gone. lol
But i had no idea if he was still around. i figured worst case the thread gets pushed down to the bottom of the threads list and no harm done. Plus the search police dont get involved. (<----- didn't mean to offend anybody with that one) :hihi:
If you click on somebody's userID, you will see a chronologic list of their prior posts. This will provide clues whether the person is still active on the forum. Hope this helps.
Good point. Thanks for the tip!
So.. if there's a thread on something, and it looks like the poster was no longer active... and i post up a new thread... what happens if the search police come out to get me? :2:
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