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I saw and heard my first E60 M5 yesterday, at London dealer Hexagon of Highgate. The salesman says none of the magazines has picked up on the fact that the engine can be tuned to 1300bhp without breaking, and that in launch form it is in "maximum detune".

Is this credible?
 

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:haha2: Well almost everytning is possible I guess, but to tune that engine to 1300 is impossible at least considering the " not going to break" statement.
To try and rev the that engine to the rquired rpm to reach anything remotly close to 1300 Hp would make the engine explode into orbit......
So no this sound like a remark from a not well informed salesperson.
 

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Oh yes you can tune bmw engines to even more bhp. Formula 1 cars in the eighties used the USED!!!! underblock of an 315 engine, and they got more then 1500 bhp out of it in qualifying trim.
Shame such an engine only lasts for 5 miles :D

IMHO 1300 BHP complete and utter bollocks!
 

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hiha hiha hiha What a guy!!!! What a salesman for M cars. I always said “the only thing is missing in new M5 are wings– get wings and fly away my dear salesman” :hihihi:
 

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but I still wonder how much BHP can it produce if it runs at 10.000 rpm, I read the engine was successfully tested upto those revs without any issues, but for reliability reasons limited at 8.250 rpm 'only'
 

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The idea isn't as stupid as the salesman has made it sound. But i don't think it'd happen merely by raising the revs. Forced induction is pretty much the only way you'd see it. If you were to put a good high-output supercharger or twin turbos on it with a silly amount of boost pressure, like 20psi or more, i think you'd very easily see over 1000bhp or possibly much higher numbers...

There's a drift car here in Australia (based on a Holden SS Ute) that has an intercooled 6.0L V8 LS1 engine with a Vortech V-7 YSi series supercharger that puts out 1022hp at the rear wheels. which is i don't know what at the crank.

This obviously isn't a bolt-on package, nor probably even road legal, but there's plently of far more humble engines out there that can put out stupid levels of of power.

Why the hell you'd want to risk it, the associated reduction in lifespan, the cost of upgrading the drivetrain (and can the SMG3 even handle that amount of power??) and waste the money is a totally different matter..

I wouldn't say the salesman is an idiot... He's close to being quite an optimistic idiot, but throw enough money at the car and it'd pull a rabbit out of a hat... IMHO, i wouldn't bother.
 

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Kirium said:
I wouldn't say the salesman is an idiot... throw enough money at the car and it'd pull a rabbit out of a hat... IMHO, i wouldn't bother.

Well if he is not an idiot, he is very close.

He said it like the engine would take 1300 Hp without breaking, thats not true. You would have to change more or less everything that moves and a few other things to, and then it is not the same engine anymore, right.

We have an E34 M5 in Norway running 1020 Hp and +1000Nm torque. It runs the 1/4 in low [email protected] 140 mph. Not much left of the original M5 parts in that engine.

the peak power of the M5 is at app 7700 rpms right so at 8250 it is already going down on power, only increasing rpms will just give you less rpms unless you start to change things.
 

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My mate is a BMW M Advanced Driving Instructor and last month he was sent to Germany to do a course and he saw the M6 GT being tested..


He said its awesome and sounds like nothing on this earth with a full on racing straight through exhaust system.. He said he was told the car was making 770 BHP and the limiter was at 10,400 RPM..!!! Hows that sound to you tuning freaks?? He says its 75% as loud as an F1 car..

He also said they were seriously considering the M6 CSL, upping power and revs to 9,200 RPM..!!


1500 HP??? Yeah.. with Veryon Stile 4 turbos and revving to 10,400 RPM..

Do me a favour.. at least he was optimistic!!
 

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greggb said:
My mate is a BMW M Advanced Driving Instructor and last month he was sent to Germany to do a course and he saw the M6 GT being tested..


He said its awesome and sounds like nothing on this earth with a full on racing straight through exhaust system.. He said he was told the car was making 770 BHP and the limiter was at 10,400 RPM..!!! Hows that sound to you tuning freaks?? He says its 75% as loud as an F1 car..

He also said they were seriously considering the M6 CSL, upping power and revs to 9,200 RPM..!!


1500 HP??? Yeah.. with Veryon Stile 4 turbos and revving to 10,400 RPM..

Do me a favour.. at least he was optimistic!!
The fact is – of course you can get 1300 and even more and may be 1500 bhp but salesman said “without breaking”. I would say exactly as Eric did



Not much left of the original M5 parts in that engine.”
 

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Wow


greggb said:
He said its awesome and sounds like nothing on this earth with a full on racing straight through exhaust system.. He said he was told the car was making 770 BHP and the limiter was at 10,400 RPM..!!! Hows that sound to you tuning freaks?? He says its 75% as loud as an F1 car..

He also said they were seriously considering the M6 CSL, upping power and revs to 9,200 RPM..!!
 

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From what the salesman said, it sounds like they were running it that hard and then tuned it back. I'm sure they saw north of 600hp with the car and then throttled it back a bunch. 1300hp? hiha hiha Let him have his moment, but he is dead wrong. I have never seen a street cars engine produce that power without totally reworked internals. Not even a Bugatti Veyron makes that power in street trim...
I think SMG3 would explode if that much power went through it. Oh well, that salesman was good for a chuckle. Reminds me of the time I test drove an SRT4 Neon and the salesman told me there was no torque steer or understeer at all, and that it drove like a RWD car...
EDIT- Just dug up the BHP calculator from a great book called "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators." BHP= TN/5255 where T= torque and N= output shaft speed (engine speed). Working the 1300hp figure in, the engine needs to spin at 17,836.81 rpm before it will make that power, all things being equal. I would love to see that, but maybe the people who think that it is just a detuned Formula 1 engine might believe...hiha
:cheers:
 

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When I was researching the optimum redline for my vintage racers, I seem to remember the following guidelines for creating HP. for every point increase in CR, you got about 10%, up to the max for the cylinder shape. For every 1000 rpm, you might expect 5-10%, assuming all of the breathing, cam timing, carburetion issues were appropriately adjusted.

Some other relevant info. Stroke limits reliable max rpm. The V10 has a 75.2mm stroke. The BMWk1200R M/C has a 10K redline and a 59mm stroke. The bikes I race have a 70mm stroke and can be RACED to 10K with frequent rebuilds. That being said, I'd think that with premium components, 9-9500 would be max reliable revs for a warranteed engine with that stroke. JMO.
 

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Jessem said:
When I was researching the optimum redline for my vintage racers, I seem to remember the following guidelines for creating HP. for every point increase in CR, you got about 10%, up to the max for the cylinder shape. For every 1000 rpm, you might expect 5-10%, assuming all of the breathing, cam timing, carburetion issues were appropriately adjusted.

Some other relevant info. Stroke limits reliable max rpm. The V10 has a 75.2mm stroke. The BMWk1200R M/C has a 10K redline and a 59mm stroke. The bikes I race have a 70mm stroke and can be RACED to 10K with frequent rebuilds. That being said, I'd think that with premium components, 9-9500 would be max reliable revs for a warranteed engine with that stroke. JMO.

the e46 m3 stroke is much larger than the e60 m5 87mm vs 75mm so there is room for an increase on the current revs (one would assume the m5 engine is more robust than that found in the m3)
 
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