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Discussion Starter #41
I have some DTC 60 pads to toss in for the next track day. We'll see how they hold up especially in the rear. I guess if I'm going to smoke a set of pads it may as well be the cheaper ones. I have no trouble paying for Carbotech's although for the price I would probably buy Pagid. It is a set process and I think with the DTC 60 heat range I'll be good for the braking part. To answer flacoramos I have never heard of and would not recommend engaging the ABS unless you are out of control.

When I first started at Proformance they had us leave the nanny bits on and instructed us that when the light is flashing(DSC) or the ABS is engaged you are over driving the car. Smooth is fast, everyone agrees that it is the fastest way around the track. To that end brake hard but progressively. I can and do brake harder and later than most other drivers on the track. I have to be careful because when they do brake most cars on the track are lighter and can out brake me.

Another good goal is to save the car. It's easy to overdrive the car: tires, brakes and engine. Any race driver will know that he has to make it to the end before he will ever win. The last time I was Pacific my goal was to be smooth. With my instructors guidance I feel I met that goal. I went out at the start thinking I've been here so I know the track. I've done many laps in my M5 so I should be ready to rip. I was wrong! I brought the HP down, followed instruction and had a great day. When you get the braking, turn in and exit right you can feel it, smooth. You are not fighting the car it just goes where you want it. When you blow it at least for me it's not fun. The car is desperate and fighting you at every turn. By the end of the day I was hanging with an E92 M3 that should have been smoking me.

And last but not least, enjoy making improvements to your ride. If you go to the track in any car you will find the weakness in the platform. Enjoy fixing those problems and then getting out there and really doing what these cars are meant to do. We don't have an autobahn and most of us want to stay out of jail so take it to the track.
 

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I have some DTC 60 pads to toss in for the next track day. We'll see how they hold up especially in the rear. I guess if I'm going to smoke a set of pads it may as well be the cheaper ones. I have no trouble paying for Carbotech's although for the price I would probably buy Pagid. It is a set process and I think with the DTC 60 heat range I'll be good for the braking part. To answer flacoramos I have never heard of and would not recommend engaging the ABS unless you are out of control.

When I first started at Proformance they had us leave the nanny bits on and instructed us that when the light is flashing(DSC) or the ABS is engaged you are over driving the car. Smooth is fast, everyone agrees that it is the fastest way around the track. To that end brake hard but progressively. I can and do brake harder and later than most other drivers on the track. I have to be careful because when they do brake most cars on the track are lighter and can out brake me.

Another good goal is to save the car. It's easy to overdrive the car: tires, brakes and engine. Any race driver will know that he has to make it to the end before he will ever win. The last time I was Pacific my goal was to be smooth. With my instructors guidance I feel I met that goal. I went out at the start thinking I've been here so I know the track. I've done many laps in my M5 so I should be ready to rip. I was wrong! I brought the HP down, followed instruction and had a great day. When you get the braking, turn in and exit right you can feel it, smooth. You are not fighting the car it just goes where you want it. When you blow it at least for me it's not fun. The car is desperate and fighting you at every turn. By the end of the day I was hanging with an E92 M3 that should have been smoking me.

And last but not least, enjoy making improvements to your ride. If you go to the track in any car you will find the weakness in the platform. Enjoy fixing those problems and then getting out there and really doing what these cars are meant to do. We don't have an autobahn and most of us want to stay out of jail so take it to the track.
Right on...love your last 2 statements there...words of wisdom my friend!


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Speaking of track days, this guy cracks me up, as he reminds me of a buddy:

And this is a classic:

And some legendary Red Mist:
 

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Discussion Starter #45
I love the second one. It reminds me of a story from Turn2. When you register they review your record and ask a few questions to make sure you can run solo and are in the correct group. This includes an instructor ride at no charge if necessary. The guy registred and said he had over two years of experience in a simulator. On the one track day he did have the instructor got out of his car after one lap and told him there was nothing he could teach him. He took this as he was the best driver on the track and wanted to be put in the fastest run group.

His registration was not accepted. That's how they keep track days safe, working in the background. BMW, AUDI and Porsche require instruction at all events until you "Solo"
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Well I changed out the pads from Yellow stuff to DTC 60. The yellow stuff pads were smoked! The fronts had less wear but looked the same with some added chipping. So much for that experience. I plan on bringing a spare set of rear pads from now on until I figure out why it eats rear pads? This is about 500 miles with one serious track day and two moderate 1/2 track days. Normally I would get four track days plus 1000 miles and they would not be this worn.

930564
930565
 

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Discussion Starter #48
The rotor was just under 25mm, maybe 24. I had to use a machinist rule and a gauge, my eyes are getting a little rusty as well.
 

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I may have been the first to track the e60 M5. Here are my track reports from 2007 (holy cow, 12 years ago! -- before I surrendered to the track bug, instructed, built a dedicated e36 M3 race car, and spent years racing with BMWCCA Club Racing (making the lap times mentioned in these early M5 track reports humorous) --



I am sure much has changed and many more options are now available. I do remember the challenge finding track-worthy tires in 19" but we could not find a suitable 18" wheel the barrel of which was large enough to not only fit over the calipers but leave enough space for adequate cooling. In talking with brake experts, including Dave Zeckhausen, investing in a big brake kit was unnecessary since the car already has a big brake kit. The brake kit is not the limiting factor. Rather, it is rubber (by far the biggest factor) and pads.

Have fun, everyone, and be careful. I tracked the M5 for about 18 months. At VIR, I was exceeding 160 mph on the back straight each lap. I decided that doing so with only a helmet and a three-point seat belt was not a good idea. I kept remembering the words of a wise instructor I had back then -- "You are doing this often enough now, and going fast enough, that the question is not whether you will hit something, but when."
 

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I may have been the first to track the e60 M5. Here are my track reports from 2007 (holy cow, 12 years ago! -- before I surrendered to the track bug, instructed, built a dedicated e36 M3 race car, and spent years racing with BMWCCA Club Racing (making the lap times mentioned in these early M5 track reports humorous) --



I am sure much has changed and many more options are now available. I do remember the challenge finding track-worthy tires in 19" but we could not find a suitable 18" wheel the barrel of which was large enough to not only fit over the calipers but leave enough space for adequate cooling. In talking with brake experts, including Dave Zeckhausen, investing in a big brake kit was unnecessary since the car already has a big brake kit. The brake kit is not the limiting factor. Rather, it is rubber (by far the biggest factor) and pads.

Have fun, everyone, and be careful. I tracked the M5 for about 18 months. At VIR, I was exceeding 160 mph on the back straight each lap. I decided that doing so with only a helmet and a three-point seat belt was not a good idea. I kept remembering the words of a wise instructor I had back then -- "You are doing this often enough now, and going fast enough, that the question is not whether you will hit something, but when."
Great read.

Dave Zeckhausen is the man when I comes to all things brakes. He helped me many times over the years.

Regarding your VIR feeling, I get that same feeling on the roval at CalSpeedway — on the banking, turning into NASCAR 1 and 2 with only a helmet and 3 point, and no cage, no HANS, and no aero in a street car. CCA adds a hybrid-ish cone/gate/chicane to bring down the speeds on the front straight, before NASCAR 1 and 2. Other organizations, it may be wide open.

With that said, there are a lot more e60 options today, than ever before — but that’s not saying much!!
 

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Well I changed out the pads from Yellow stuff to DTC 60. The yellow stuff pads were smoked! The fronts had less wear but looked the same with some added chipping. So much for that experience. I plan on bringing a spare set of rear pads from now on until I figure out why it eats rear pads? This is about 500 miles with one serious track day and two moderate 1/2 track days. Normally I would get four track days plus 1000 miles and they would not be this worn.

I have always used the yellow pads for street. The blue ones work much better on the track.
 

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The rotor was just under 25mm, maybe 24. I had to use a machinist rule and a gauge, my eyes are getting a little rusty as well.
When's your next trackday? Curious to hear your feedback on the dtc's.

Rears are 23.8 new so can't be 25 or 24. A ruler won't tell you anything. Don't have a u-micrometer I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
I had a great day at PIR. Hooked on driving always puts on a great event. Because it was my first time at that track they gave me a instructor for the warm up laps.The whole thing is flat which is new for me. It is also pretty short, about 1:35 was my best lap.
The chicane at the end of the front straight and the exit from turn 7 were my favorites. After you make the turn you push wide with all throttle. We call it oversteer and this generation calls it drifting. I dropped a wheel a couple of times but I didn't get flagged so I kept going. Because the track is smaller you run into traffic more. I liked it because it is a separate skill to run fast with someone and pass them. No one in my group was that slow so you had to work your way up to and pass them. The RX-7 that I pass in the video was running with me for almost the full session before. A great variety of cars with only a could of GT3's.

After each session the group would download with the instructors. We could talk about track/passing problems and ask questions about our lines. This really helps, I needed pointers on turn 1 and turn 6. Our instructor changed our passing to anywhere with a point and encouraged about half of us to try the advanced group next time. I got several comments about how fast I was.

The DTC60's worked great, ABS into turn 1,7 and 10 if I hit the brakes hard with no fade all day. I spoke with a race team engineer about eating up the rears? He said I should run staggered pads, softer in the rear to bias the braking forward. Of course that means eating more rear pads but he commented that if you want to go that fast you are going to eat parts. He suggested DTC70 in the front and DTC60 in the rear. I also discovered something else. I push the DSC button and get the warning symbol pretty much all of the time now. I looked in the I-drive and for DSC it shows M-dynamic. Do the buttons override the I-drive? I hope so or I'm going to feel a little dumb.

Well I know I can overcome the tires with power, braking and cornering so that is the next item on the list. I hope for maybe one more track day before the end of the season?
 

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The DTC60's worked great, ABS into turn 1,7 and 10 if I hit the brakes hard with no fade all day. I spoke with a race team engineer about eating up the rears? He said I should run staggered pads, softer in the rear to bias the braking forward. Of course that means eating more rear pads but he commented that if you want to go that fast you are going to eat parts. He suggested DTC70 in the front and DTC60 in the rear.
That would be ideal except hawk doesn't make DTC70 for the fronts. Interesting to note is that from the factory the rears always had more bite (DOT FE pads compared to FF rears). They then updated the fronts to FF for 08 (equal all around), and now GG for the latest superseded number (more bite front).

I push the DSC button and get the warning symbol pretty much all of the time now. I looked in the I-drive and for DSC it shows M-dynamic. Do the buttons override the I-drive? I hope so or I'm going to feel a little dumb.
Whenever you push any button (power, dsc, M) the settings will change. Nothing has 'priority'. By pushing DSC once you're using the useless M-dynamic mode (aka MDM). Push and hold DSC to turn DSC off completely. Used to just turn it off for trackdays until I coded competition MDM. Competition MDM is REALLY meant for the track. Other than drifting DSC never kicked in when I used MDM and BFG R1s last year.

Well I know I can overcome the tires with power, braking and cornering so that is the next item on the list. I hope for maybe one more track day before the end of the season?
Remind me if you did any suspension change. Front shoulders still taking a beating?
 

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Discussion Starter #55
The only change I made to the suspension was to pull the pin and move the strut tower in. The tire is not getting over the edge anymore. I also experimented with dropping the tire pressure to 45. Of course if I push harder the car will understeer but I think the tire will stay on top of the tread. The rear wheel well is right upto the edge of the tire and the front has about an inch of clearance. The car drives fine but it looks bad.
 

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The only change I made to the suspension was to pull the pin and move the strut tower in. The tire is not getting over the edge anymore. I also experimented with dropping the tire pressure to 45. Of course if I push harder the car will understeer but I think the tire will stay on top of the tread. The rear wheel well is right upto the edge of the tire and the front has about an inch of clearance. The car drives fine but it looks bad.
Interesting. Got a pic of how fronts look like now?

I have a feeling that the E64 swaybars plus the dinan caster plates set to max camber should be enough to save the front shoulders while retaining a stock suspension.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Here is a pic of the front tire, you can clearly see how the wear line moved when I adjusted the strut.
930821

These tries are about smoked. I'm looking at 275/35-19 in a Conti EX contact 6 or Toyo R888r. I'm only doing the fronts some staying with the same brand makes the most sense.
Here are the wheel gaps, only one person I know of changed just the front springs. Other than that its coilover time. I bought studs and lugs so a spacer may be in order for the fronts. If I do the same size tire in the rear I should be able to rotate the tires and get them to wear more even. A tow check is on the list as well.
930822
930823
 

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Yeah looks better but not enough...

About the tires yes you'll need spacers for the fronts. I ran 275/35/18 on apex arc-8s 18x9.5 et22 in all corners and needed 15mm front spacers. Running a square setup really reduces the understeer nature of the car.
 

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If u run michelin tires look for the little michelin man on the edge with his hand up
It indicates correct position of wear!
 

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Here is my setup:

1. Bilstein Shocks
2. Eibach Springs
3. Spacers 12.5 MM front + 15 MM rear
4. Still pending the install of Dinan Camber Plates this week

What do you all think?




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