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Discussion Starter #21
I had a great day at Pacific. My instructor upgraded me to group C after I arrived. As a result I had a different instructor, he drove a GT3 Porsche. My group was the first out and I had my car at full power. After warming up I started rocking right out of the gate and totally blew turn one at about 145mph. I touched the brakes and must have scared my instructor, he said don't do that again! At the debrief for my group someone made a comment about it as well. It's fun to push past the limits but not at 145 and unplanned. In my defence I haven't been to Pacific in over a year and never in my M5.

The rest of that session was uneventful. I slowed down and followed the line my instructor was coaching me one. The next two sessions I cut the power back so I didn't have to worry so much about the corner exit and braking zones. When I got the turn in and braking in the right spots the car felt smooth and happy. When I got it wrong the car was all over the place and I was fighting the wheel. After the third session my instructor recommended and got me approved to drive solo. He was impressed at how well I handled such a heavy powerful car. My last time out was awesome. I was running just behind an M3 for several laps until we hit some traffic and he got a point and I didn't. Here's a look at my fastest lap of the day,
The lap timer is buggy for some reason in my M5. The GPS and OBD data cuts in and out.

So I have only about 2.5 days on my EBC yellow stuff brake pads and they are almost gone. To my surprise the rears are worn more than the fronts. On my E38 the Hawk and cool carbon pads lasted four track days with some pad left, that's just the front. The rears would last almost twice as long as the fronts. I need some new pads and to figure out why the rears are going so fast? That may be the cause of the wiggle in the rear under hard braking at the end of the straight. So I have the EBC yellow stuff that work fine but wear fast for about $300, Hawk HPS 5.0 are about the same but lasted longer on my E38, Potterfield RS4 that I have never heard of for $600 and of course Pagid for about $1000. I need them by September 5th so that may be a limitation.

I am happy to report that the tires are holding up well. I pulled the pin from the strut tower and grabbed some extra camber, -2. The rear is about -1.5. The tow was out about 1/8" out so I pulled it in a little. With the adjustments and better driving the wear line has moved off the sidewall and just to the edge of the tread. You can see the old line on the front way out by the edge and the new line in closer to the tread. The rears look great. Based on what I am getting from the factory set up I may just grab some Dinan plates until the coilovers go in.
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So like I always say, take your car to the track and it will tell you what it needs. Brakes!
I almost forgot, I put a tune in from Jim at fast attack. It is not my final tune but it is definitely better than what was in there. The Midrange power is way up and as a result I was staying lower in the rpm rage, 6k. The emissions code is up all the time now but that is going away. And the big news, no engine failsafe for Bank 2 over retarded. Super happy with the engine and power at 400.
 

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So I have the EBC yellow stuff that work fine but wear fast for about $300, Hawk HPS 5.0 are about the same but lasted longer on my E38, Potterfield RS4 that I have never heard of for $600 and of course Pagid for about $1000. I need them by September 5th so that may be a limitation.
Nice report, interesting to see what max stock camber did.

You could also buy my set of used for one track-day hawk dtc60's. IMO it's a no-brainer considering you get all 4 corners for what one axle will cost you. And as far as performance they're the best of the bunch. I listed thickness measurements on my FS post.
 

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Here is the question, bigger sway bars? The sway bar transmits the force from one wheel to the other wheel forcing it down onto the road. Or it resists the compression on the inside wheel from the unloading of the outside wheel? In any case it would seem that in a track application a bigger sway bar would make little difference with the forces involved. Certainly on the street it would have a noticeable effect. So again I think the best money, effort and effect on performance would be coilovers.
Forgot to comment on this thought of yours. The stiffer swaybars will serve 2 purposes. By reducing body roll you keep the front tires flatter with respect to ground while turning. Effectively mimicking extra camber and stiffer springs without changing either. Think go-kart with no suspension. The second effect is shifting the front to rear traction bias, hence altering the over/understeer characteristics of the car. If you use the staggered stock tire sizes the E60 M5 chassis has understeer (same as 99.9% other street-legal cars). Using the E64 bars makes the car more neutral but still some understeer. Using the E64 front and an adjustable aftermarket rear will reduce roll and can get you into neutral/oversteer territory depending how you set up the rear bar.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Well I ordered Carbotech XP10 for all four corners. Going to try and put in some brake lines and bushings if I get them in time? I looked all over and to get matching pads on all four corners there are not many choices. Lots of options for the rear but few for the front. The cost is almost double of the EBC, Hawk and Cool Carbon S/T pads. I'm pretty sure they will be noisy on the street and I hope they do not kill my rotors? And they sure as hell better stop the car!

PIR on September 5th. Feel pretty good about the engine, tires and suspension. I'm going to try and get the lap timer to work more consistently so people can see the speed, revs and gears. It works great in my E38.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Need some insight? I took the wheels off today to have a look at the brake pads. The rears are toast, maybe 1/8" of pad. The front for 2.5 days is maybe at 70%, not bad. Why is the rear wearing so fast? The TC is off and even if it was on it cuts engine power? Could the ABS, DSC be getting in the way?

The Carbotech pads are canceled. I got a call from Bimmerworld that the price for the fronts went from $240 to $580. I found some Hawk pads that are $440 and they are on the way.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Hawk DTC-60, I found a supplier in Oregon that should get them to me by next Tuesday? http://www.hawkpadsdirect.com The website above as every brand and type of pad that I found searching all over the internet in one place. I opened up the brake cooling yesterday,
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I have RPI intakes with block off plates so there is nothing going upstairs. You can see that the stock strut are bushing is flexing under braking and the tire is rubbing the inner fender. So far my research has yielded that M5's eat rear pads. It must be the the ABS or DSC deteching slip under heavy braking and modulating?
 

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I had the same flex issue until I switched to monoballs. My fender liners looked the same, pre-monoballs.

If you're going to track a heavy e60, take a look at my mods. I'm pretty sure I have more money in drivetrain/chassis/suspension mods v. let's make more POWAH mods. Not to mention, I'm on my third cycle of "all the hoses and rubber bits". Most of everything has been reinforced over the years.

Performance Gearing 3.91 LSD 3 clutch, 30/50 ramps, R&P polished; ClutchMasters FX350 clutch and LTW single mass FW @157,000 miles, RPi Oil Cooler/Scoops; DINAN High Flow Air Mass Meter/Intake, DINAN TBs, DINAN pulley, DINAN strut, DINAN Monoballs, FastAttack Tune, w/Kung Fu grip!, Einhorn Industries Race Jedders, track pipe, and x-pipe; DINAN Section 3, DINAN LTW 19x9 ET18, 19x10 ET25, Michelin PS4S 275/35/19 and 305/30/19, Macht Schnell 15mm spacers (front); FERODO FRP3000H race pads; StopTech BBK 6/4 380mm/35mm x 380mm/32mm w/SS lines; RDSport F/R sways; MCS 2WNR motorsport coilover, GC camber plates, Eibach 2.5" Race Spring, 2.5" Hyperco Helper Spring, 2.5" Torrington Bearing Kit; -2.0/-2.5 F/R camber; z3 1.9L SSK, with f10 shifter; SprintBooster v3; Euro MDM and DSC off. Fluids: Motul 7100 4T 10w60, Redline ShockProof Lightweight 75w140, Castrol SRF, Unicorn Jizz, and Wolfpack Blood
 

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Discussion Starter #31
It is on the list for winter upgrades. I like to do things one at a time so I can feel the difference of each step. It makes the upgrades more fun and spreads the cost out so I can still make my house payments. I have every detail of your mods committed to memory. I could just jump to the end but what fun would there be in that. With this car I don't have to worry about power I just have to keep it running.
 

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My 2 cents, my liners looked like that when they were not properly secured to the front bottom shield. Once I replaced and properly secured everything they haven't rubbed anymore, trackdays included. Braking pulls the tire towards the rear of the car (away from the liner), not the other way.

As for cooling the first thing to do is remove the back rotor shield on the fronts. You'd be amazed how removing the shield helps. No point in adding cooling air with that shield in place. I left the rears alone as it involves some cutting as the handbrake hardware attaches to the shield. But if you don't care about them by all means trim the rears. Note those shields do help during winter and also to keep thermal shock if rotors hot and hit a puddle, etc.

What's the thickness on your rear rotors? If the rotors are worn then they will heat up more likely causing extra pad wear. I haven't seen extra rear wear on mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I secured the inner fender as well as opening the hole for air flow. I guess at 140+mph the air would push on the inner fender quite a bit. I will check on the rotor thickness when I put the pads in. As for the shields they will stay in place for now. Maybe when I change the rotors/ upgrade the brakes I can pull them? For now the car see plenty of regular driving and in The PNW there is plenty of water.
 

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As for cooling the first thing to do is remove the back rotor shield on the fronts. You'd be amazed how removing the shield helps. No point in adding cooling air with that shield in place. I left the rears alone as it involves some cutting as the handbrake hardware attaches to the shield. But if you don't care about them by all means trim the rears. Note those shields do help during winter and also to keep thermal shock if rotors hot and hit a puddle, etc.
I forgot to add, I removed the front and back rotor shields, when I moved to a BBK. Winter? What is this "winter" you speak of? :p

And I agree, it's best/more fun to make the mods in stages. I did the same thing, as my car progressed.

I've done so many little things over the years, that I can't remember what I did to which car.
 

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I secured the inner fender as well as opening the hole for air flow. I guess at 140+mph the air would push on the inner fender quite a bit. I will check on the rotor thickness when I put the pads in. As for the shields they will stay in place for now. Maybe when I change the rotors/ upgrade the brakes I can pull them? For now the car see plenty of regular driving and in The PNW there is plenty of water.
Perhaps I made their purpose sound more important than it really is. If rain is your concern then I insist you take the front shields out. Not hard to remove either, only requires removing the caliper and then the rotor. Regular driving doesn't get the rotors anywhere near trackday-hot levels. I've done so in previous cars and daily-driven them through rain,etc. But then again I lived in a warmer place. Never had an issue. Now here in IL no way I'm leaving those off in winter due to all the snow + salt we use here. From spring to fall I don't have any concerns in having them off.
 

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Any of you guys engage the ABS on purpose at the track? As in at end of the straights you just slam the pedal and let ABS work? I found stock pads will transfer material to the rotor when doing so. Trashing rotors in the process.

DTC60 also seemed to cause some transfer but it's aggressive enough to self-clean if braking reasonably.

I ask as I don't think one should engage ABS in this situation. Had an instructor suggest this approach, never again...
 

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Any of you guys engage the ABS on purpose at the track? As in at end of the straights you just slam the pedal and let ABS work? I found stock pads will transfer material to the rotor when doing so. Trashing rotors in the process.

DTC60 also seemed to cause some transfer but it's aggressive enough to self-clean if braking reasonably.

I ask as I don't think one should engage ABS in this situation. Had an instructor suggest this approach, never again...
It kicks in when I use it at 140 MPH to slow down to like 50 MPH. I could see the holes in the roter filled with black thick dust but didnt think much of it...Is it bad? And is there an easy way to turn it off? Is it Only coded through INPA?

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It kicks in when I use it at 140 MPH to slow down to like 50 MPH. I could see the holes in the roter filled with black thick dust but didnt think much of it...It didnt trash my rotors...is it really that bad? And is there an easy way to turn it off? Is it Only coded through INPA?

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Well I ordered Carbotech XP10 for all four corners. Going to try and put in some brake lines and bushings if I get them in time? I looked all over and to get matching pads on all four corners there are not many choices. Lots of options for the rear but few for the front. The cost is almost double of the EBC, Hawk and Cool Carbon S/T pads. I'm pretty sure they will be noisy on the street and I hope they do not kill my rotors? And they sure as hell better stop the car!

PIR on September 5th. Feel pretty good about the engine, tires and suspension. I'm going to try and get the lap timer to work more consistently so people can see the speed, revs and gears. It works great in my E38.

I also have track day on September 7th-8th at BIR ( Brainerd international raceway). I had used the Carbotech XP8 for all 4 corners and they performed well 2 years ago at BIR.
Funny thing is I just ordered another set of XP8s from bimmerworld with the same Price increase you mentioned compared to the last time i bought a set from them.
 

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It kicks in when I use it at 140 MPH to slow down to like 50 MPH. I could see the holes in the roter filled with black thick dust but didnt think much of it...Is it bad? And is there an easy way to turn it off? Is it Only coded through INPA?

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk
Dust in the holes is not what I meant by pad transfer. If you had pad transfer you'd know as brakes/steering will shake.

Some ABS action is ok, but continuously slamming the pedal and flooring it until you let go is what damaged mine.
 
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Alan Arnesen
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