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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wondering how close the E39 Beast comes to the new E60 Beast on its 400 hp mode. All the test results I've seen of the E60 are on the full 507 hp (as it should be), so just curious if anyone has seen either official results (0-60, 1/4 mile, etc.), or perhaps has had both an E60 and E39 Beast and can casually comment on the differences.

Probably a more one-to-one comparo would be once the 6-speed manual gets released on the US E60s, so we'll stay tuned...
 

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davem3smg said:
I've heard of the two different modes which are activated by a button, but I don't know what is different, mechanically, between the two modes. Anyone know?
When you start the E60 M5, it always starts in P400 mode; that's 400 horsepower. When you push the M button, all of your settings kick in and then you get the full 500 horsepower.

I think it's akin to the Sport on/off modes in our cars.
 

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KWP said:
When you start the E60 M5, it always starts in P400 mode; that's 400 horsepower. When you push the M button, all of your settings kick in and then you get the full 500 horsepower.

I think it's akin to the Sport on/off modes in our cars.
When you push the sport button in our cars, it only changes the throttle responsiveness. It doesn't actually change the horsepower.

Right, I've heard of the switch between 400 and 500 horsepower, but what, mechanically is changing to make this actual power difference. I recall that in some of the old vettes, you could actually turn off a couple of the cyliners. I think that they were V8s that you could turn off 2 cylinder, but I've heard that they ran like crap. I doubt that is what this is though.
 

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davem3smg said:
When you push the sport button in our cars, it only changes the throttle responsiveness. It doesn't actually change the horsepower.

Right, I've heard of the switch between 400 and 500 horsepower, but what, mechanically is changing to make this actual power difference. I recall that in some of the old vettes, you could actually turn off a couple of the cyliners. I think that they were V8s that you could turn off 2 cylinder, but I've heard that they ran like crap. I doubt that is what this is though.
I knew that, I was just saying how the button in the E60 does things. Sorry for the confusion.
 

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Perhaps it doesn't allow full throttle openings at P400 and full throttle physically is intrepreted as 80% throttle in the drive-by-wire.

I don't think anyone knows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Now that I think about it, this post is perhaps better suited for the E60 Board as there are plenty of European folks that have been experiencing the E60 Beast so they will have more to comment.

Gustav, can you kindly copy/move it there, please. Thx
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

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davem3smg said:
I recall that in some of the old vettes, you could actually turn off a couple of the cyliners. I think that they were V8s that you could turn off 2 cylinder, but I've heard that they ran like crap.
Incorrect. On the 90's ZR1, there was a valet setting that prevented 8 of the 16 throttle bodies from opening, and reduced fuel and spark curves. I believe it also limited RPM range, but it has been awhile so I may be mistaken on this. It limited the engine to about 270HP from what Chevy said, however, having driven them, I would suspect under 200hp.

The car ran fine in this mode. In fact, you could drive it all day and not know the difference until you put your foot in it.
 

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vndkshn said:
Incorrect. On the 90's ZR1, there was a valet setting that prevented 8 of the 16 throttle bodies from opening, and reduced fuel and spark curves. I believe it also limited RPM range, but it has been awhile so I may be mistaken on this. It limited the engine to about 270HP from what Chevy said, however, having driven them, I would suspect under 200hp.

The car ran fine in this mode. In fact, you could drive it all day and not know the difference until you put your foot in it.
That may be what I was thinking of. Any insights on how the P400 vs. P500 mode works? Is it similar to this?
 

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vndkshn said:
Incorrect. On the 90's ZR1, there was a valet setting that prevented 8 of the 16 throttle bodies from opening, and reduced fuel and spark curves. I believe it also limited RPM range, but it has been awhile so I may be mistaken on this. It limited the engine to about 270HP from what Chevy said, however, having driven them, I would suspect under 200hp.

The car ran fine in this mode. In fact, you could drive it all day and not know the difference until you put your foot in it.
What an awesome idea :cheers:
THAT is worth having on any high end car
 

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davem3smg said:
That may be what I was thinking of. Any insights on how the P400 vs. P500 mode works? Is it similar to this?
P400 limits the opening of the individual throttle bodies to 90% of their travel. This results in an area of approximately 80% of the fully open area, hence 80% of the horsepower is available.
 

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Here are the numbers from Auto Motor und Sport´s test:

Mode P400 D5:

0-100 km/h 6,4 seconds
0-160 km/h 14,3
0-200 km/h 21,1

P400 S5:

0-100 km/h 6,0 seconds
0-160 km/h 13,4
0-200 km/h 20,6

As you can see, it´s slower than the E39 M5 in the P400 mode.
 

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0-100 kmh in 6 seconds? Wow, that seems kinda slow for a 400-hp car (400 hp mode that is).... the outgoing E60 545i with 75 fewer horses goes a tick quicker.
 

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Rezf said:
What an awesome idea :cheers:
THAT is worth having on any high end car
No kidding, that would be so much more useful than the stupid p400 mode.

People blast Chevy for their cars.. some of it is very much deserved, I do it too. But the ZR1 had this 15 years ago!
 

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masmole said:
0-100 kmh in 6 seconds? Wow, that seems kinda slow for a 400-hp car (400 hp mode that is).... the outgoing E60 545i with 75 fewer horses goes a tick quicker.
It's my understanding that the P400 mode restricts maximum throttle, but to my knowledge BMW has never released horsepower and torque plots against rpm for the P400 mode. We may be assuming that the P400 plots are the P500 plots, minus 20% across the entire rpm range, but what if the throttle restriction imposes a much greater penalty on the engine at higher rpm than at lower rpm, such that torque and horsepower fall off at a significantly lower rpm in P400 mode? Would it be counterproductive to accelerate to redline in P400 mode? Perhaps upshifting earlier results in a better acceleration time. Just speculating. We needs those P400 mode power curves, and someone better than I to interpret them.

No one has suggested that p400 mode also remaps to slightly boosts low end torque for better tractability during relaxed driving. Too bad. A little more low end torque would have better justified the p400 mode.

Richard
 

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I agree Richard... without a different curve in P400 that boosts torque, it is a pointless gimmick.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that BMW has done more than limit the throttle opening. IIRC, several members report that they feel more power with P500, without flooring it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks for the elaborate responses, guys, and posting some official numbers.

So I guess given the setup (and official test times) the P400 vs. E39 Beast is not a fair 1-to-1 comparison. Seems it should be used just for highway cruising as opposed to 'spirited' driving...
 
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