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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all,

Had the ultimate bump-in yesterday with a silver year 2000 E55. Im pretty sure it was the 2000 model since it had the blinkers on the side mirrors. But it pulled up next to me at the lights.I looked over and the guy driving it was in his mid 30's. But honestly, what are the chances of being at the lights with a E55??? (BTW, i own a 2000 Avus Blue Sportiv M5) But i could tell the guy wanted to race. When the lights turned green, i floored it and so did the E55. I hate to say it guys, but the E55 is very very fast. The guy beat me to 60. I dont know, maybe i didnt hit all my shifts quick enough. But the E55 beat me fair and square. I'd like to give it another go though. Anyone else have a run in with a E55?

Paul
 

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With that information, and the fact that the E55 is consistently within .2 seconds to 60mph, (based on numerous U.S. car magazine comparisons of the two cars.) BMW will surley up the power of the 5 liter V8. Like they did when the E500 started getting close to the 3.6L E34. BMW responded with the 3.8L

I saw that BMW made a concept X5 (for the Geneva auto show I believe)with a 600+ HP V12, that was based on their championship winning Le Mans cars. Perhaps BMW will someday put that monster of a V12 in the M5. Along with suspension modifications, and many other extras. That would definetly leave the E55 in a large cloud of smoke.
 

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Get this!!!

There is an AMG E55 in my building. It's parked (in a reserved spot, along with my E39 M5) almost directly behind my new baby.

I haven't met the guy yet, but when I do... I'll tell you all about it.

I'm not surprised about you getting beat on the 0-60. Just remember, all he had to do was stomp on the pedal. Once you get the shifting down, it's all over...especially in a nice twisty.

Cheers!
 

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Paul,
Have you switched off the DSC and activated the sport mode? After this it shouldn't be too much trouble. Here in Germany I see this bloody AMGs quite often. Last week I got a race with a CLK55 AMG and it's hard but you can make it with the M5. Regarding the shifting times: you can reduce them with short shifts installed and tuning the M5 is also possible....
 

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It's interesting to finally here a true race against an E55 and somebody being honest. From a dead stop I think an E55 will take an E39 M5 everytime, unless you are an amazing driver and that still won't guarantee a win. The e55 has way more torque down low. Now out on the highway over 100mph, is a different story. Same thing for the CLK55, same engine, lighter car, even faster.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hey all,

Yes i did switch on the sport mode and had the DSC switched off (first thing i did when the AMG pulled up next to me.) But i think Hans is right. Unless you can drive like the guys at Road and Track and Motor Trend, the M5 will get beat by the E55 every time. Even up to 100 mph and over, the E55 wont have the least bit of trouble. Remember, the AMG is an automatic and all he has to do is stomp on it. Motor Trend track times list 0-60 for the M5 in 4.7 sec and 4.8 sec for the AMG. And the 1/4 comes at 13.2 for the M and 13.3 for the E55. So unless you are an amazing driver, i think the E55 will have us every time. And yes, hopefullly, BMW will put a bigger engine in the M5. In all respect, i must admit that the E55 is just as amazing a car as the M5.

Take care y'all

paul
 

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Having now owned both an E55 and an E39 M5 I would agree that it is very easy in the E55 to just put your foot down and get a near perfect launch every time whereas I have found out that in the M5 it takes a lot more skill and it is very easy to mess up the gear change. However on narrow winding roads the M5 will eat the E55 as it feels so big and the steering/suspension are not as precise. For me the M5 is not a 0-60 killer but is far more satisfying as a drivers car and accelerating from 60 - 120.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hey JohnH,

I thought the M5 weighed more than the E55? The M5 weighs in at 4 tons while the E55 weighs something like 3,600 lbs.

Cheers!

Paul
 

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Paul,

It is really down to the feel of the steering and the suspension and even though it may be lighter the E55 definately feels bigger and not as easy to throw around. Lots of torque though but a lot less involving to drive.
 

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Let's not forget that M5's are not made for stoplight racing. If you didn't rev the car up and really thrash it, he probrably will beat you. Even on a backroad, the cars appear to be so close I don't think one will run away from the other unless one driver is much better. The only difference would be the ability of the M5 driver to just leave it in second or third and have power immediately when exiting corners. Feedback is great for the driving experience but a good driver doesn't need it to go fast.
 

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I've always thought the only competition for The Beast was the E55. I Just can't stop thinking: what if the E55 came with a stick?
What's MB's weight saving secret? The car looks bigger than the M5, yet weighs 400lbs less.

The answer is not always more power.
 

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This all seems to be typical of our American fixation on "drag racing" type performance.I don't think this is as much the case in Europe.A cars'real ability is much more
based on handling,and speed in and out of turns.You can only get this with a stick.
The real test of these cars is in a lap of the Nuburgring.Remember,in the highest form of motor racing in the world ,Formula 1, the
cars spend very little time at top speed
or accelerating from a stop.
 

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On the subject of drag racing the E39, the technique to the best times seems to be different. The first point would be that you just can't rev the car up and drop the clutch, you have to feed the clutch to get grip (around 1000 rpm) and then floor it. The second point is that most cars I have had, you could keep the revs mounting until you felt the top of the power curve and then change. This would correspond to some point below the redline. With the E39, you very quickly hit the rev limiter in first unless you keep one eye on the tach. The rev limiter robs you of power and adds to your time (mostly in your reaction to it). The actual rev limit varies depending on the speed the revs are mounting, so in first the limit will be less than in fifth, given that you are foot to the floor in each gear.
 

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A PERFECT time to re-raise the question I posed a few days ago - what are the factors influencing the "ultimate shift point" - and specifically, for an '00 E39 M5, should one redline every time for max accleration, or is there an argument that says something lower yields better times?

(I have to confess I was dissapointed none of you experts took this one on the first time. Here's your chance to redeem yourself...
)


Originally posted by AndyP:
On the subject of drag racing the E39, the technique to the best times seems to be different. The first point would be that you just can't rev the car up and drop the clutch, you have to feed the clutch to get grip (around 1000 rpm) and then floor it. The second point is that most cars I have had, you could keep the revs mounting until you felt the top of the power curve and then change. This would correspond to some point below the redline. With the E39, you very quickly hit the rev limiter in first unless you keep one eye on the tach. The rev limiter robs you of power and adds to your time (mostly in your reaction to it). The actual rev limit varies depending on the speed the revs are mounting, so in first the limit will be less than in fifth, given that you are foot to the floor in each gear.
 

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As a 2000 E55 owner but obviously interested in other good sports sedans such as the M5, I must vouch that launching the E55 is absolutely a no brainer.

The only question for me is whether to turn the EPS (DSC) off. Often I find that even with the traction control on, the launch is already quite impressive and I don't even see a need holding any gears whatsoever.

While I do have a friend whose M5 is arriving next week, he probably won't be in the mood for this kind of drag racing so it'll be hard to arrange a direct comparison. Even if my friend is interested, as already mentioned by many others, it's not easy for a regular driver to bring the best out of an M5 even if he's willing to trash the car like those car magazine drivers.
 

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Originally posted by blue max:
I've always thought the only competition for The Beast was the E55. I Just can't stop thinking: what if the E55 came with a stick?
What's MB's weight saving secret? The car looks bigger than the M5, yet weighs 400lbs less.

The answer is not always more power.
MB:s weight saving secret is less INSULATION and less fortification. The E55 is basically any E-class car with a big engine. The E55 is a lot more noisy at high speeds as shown by Auto Motor and Sport.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Originally posted by blue max:
I've always thought the only competition for The Beast was the E55. I Just can't stop thinking: what if the E55 came with a stick?
What's MB's weight saving secret? The car looks bigger than the M5, yet weighs 400lbs less.

The answer is not always more power.
Hey all,
You guys have all made some really great points on this E55 vs. M5 topic. I agree with Blue Max that the only threat to my M5 is the AMG E55. All in all, i think both cars are really fantastic and both have their advantages and disadvantages. Obviously i still prefer the M5 because it offers a stick. But i dont know, if MB ever offered a stick on their E55.....

I went on a test drive in the E55 the other day at a local dealer in Philly and i must admit, the acceleration in that car is really amazing. The salesman let me drive it throught a back road area and it handles amaingly well. What i found out was that the E55 actually feels faster while my M5 in that very same path feels quicker.

But if any of you other M5 owners ever run into an E55, i warn you, they can keep up pretty darn easily if not outrun you. And thats speaking purely as a fellow M5 owner.

Cheers!

Paul
 

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I have a link below to a simple homemade chart that compares some of todays performance cars. It is based on principles from the "BMW ENTHUSIAST'S". Keep in mind that I use peak torque figures and probably an average over the power band would be better. This could use a lot more refinement before the flaming begins. But if you must, flame away.

The chart essentially shows the ratio of weight to drive line thrust at various speeds, which correlates to acceleration at those speeds. It is based upon weight, gearing and max. torque. Of interest to this thread is the E55. It is just a hair behind the M5 up to 100MPH. After that the close ratio six speed begins to hold an advantage. This occurs at fourth gear in the M5.

Also, note the beauty of the F355 with only 268 ft-lbs, it is very effective.

Again, this is for very rough comparisons. I would like to refine a little more, but do not have the time at present.
 

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Holger,
Have you fitted a short shift on your M5 yet? If so which one, as the only one I have heard about is the UUC which I would need to get shipped from the US. I understand that ACS will have one soon which may be good as I could get it through my BMW dealer.

Regards

JohnH
 
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