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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
Time for the first real mod. I have purchased all the necessary pieces to redo the exhaust. It will be a few weeks before I get to do the work but trying to make sure I do not miss out on an opportunity.

My cousin has a Dyno in his shop (actually it can do 4wd/AWD as well). He is offering to dyno, and custom fab an exhaust system for me for little to nothing. I have 2.5" QTP cutouts, 2.5" #10791 x-pipe, and 2 14816 cans.

The plan right now is to pull the appropriate fuses and Dyno. Cut off mufflers and Dyno again. Cut off (gently) cats and Dyno again.

Depending on those numbers I may or may not install the cutout before the cats. If I do I will have to move the cats back about 6 inches so the O2 sensor can be rebunged ahead of the cutouts......

Any input would be appreciated, since I will have a dyno at my disposal I would to answer any running questions that can be done in a couple of runs.

I will be doing the Mechanical fan removal before and after dyno test....I have a few weeks to create a plan. Lastly should I be doing a battery disconnect between runs or will any gains be evident.....or will it have to learn a little befroe the DME? optimizes the settings.
 

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Well?

I can't wait to hear some results..............

ssomed
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Alright, got the results and played around for a dozen runs and found out little, then did 5 back to back runs and found out alot!

Day started at Brotherz Racing in Tampa FL. On a Dynojet dyno.

I have been running without a mechanical fan for many months now (much quieter) but HP gain was debatable.

HP [email protected] Torq [email protected]

Put fan back on and got

HP [email protected] Torq [email protected]

really negligible differences

Pulled the fan off and raised the open mass air meters out of the car to test for Air box efficiency.

HP [email protected] Torq [email protected]

Do not really see a future in modifying the intake on these cars if there is not a gain here.....

Dropped entire exhaust system (run open headers)

HP [email protected] Torq [email protected]

Car cut out at 5500RPM, most likely due to havein Zero o2 sensors.

Subsequent runs cut out at 3500RPM and 3000RPM leaving little doubt that the car cannot function without atleast the first set of o2 sensors.

After much ruminations on where to go we put the cats back in place, so the car was missing its 105 lb resonator/ muffler set up.

HP [email protected] Torq [email protected] WOW no real gain without exhaust system.

Next we installed two 12" pieces of pipe behind the cats and inserted the magnaflow X-pipe.

HP [email protected] Torq [email protected] (really broad peak 3600-4700 over 340ft-lbs)

Before that run I used the diagnostic screen on the DIC to look up oil temperature and then decided to run 5 runs back to back to check heat soak.


HP [email protected] Torq [email protected] Temp 50C start 60C end

HP [email protected] Torq [email protected] Temp 62C start 71C end

HP [email protected] Torq [email protected] Temp 80C start 91C end

HP [email protected] Torq [email protected] Temp 94C start 101C end

HP [email protected] Torq [email protected] Temp 95C start 112C end Fans off

Heat soak could explain many of the Dyno gains we hear about on this board. Many shops try to let the cars warm up, but looking at my numbers It looks like this is the danger point. Typically when I run on the inerstat I am in the 80-85C range by the DIC. There is a precipitous drop beyond that temp where the Computer seems to be pulling timing due to either air temp or engine temp.

Long story short I am getting my cutouts installed tuesday ahead of the cats, but with the first o2 upstream as far as possible..... Hopefully it will still run up to 7000 RPM at full performance. Right now I am running around without an exhaust system....sounds nice but only 7 more HP than stock.
 

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Very good info.
Seems like its what some have been saying for a few years now.

The AA type air inlet for the stock air box works good.
It removes the warm air intake from behind the bumper, plus the kit has the brake ducting.
 

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THANK YOU FOR DATA.

Glad to see the mechanical fan numbers.

ALso glad to see the intake numbers.

(I still think the K&N filters add 20-50HP easy, since we all KNOW the BMW engineers left HP on the table.)


:)

A

PS No denying a true COLD air intake MAY help with heat soak. But nobody is getting heatsoak on a moving car.
 

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Goes to show all those people blowing 2-3 mortgage payments on $$Dinan$$ stuff is just a waste of money...i'll stick w/ my $100 CF intake from Summit and my $224 Magnaflow mufflers from www.hottexhaust.com. There are more affordable options for just about everything they make.
 

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I think your forgot to type E90 M5. You've got quite a healthy list of mods and good results, my point is it can be had for less to get the same results...but that's me.

How much have your numbers changed between the 3.15 and 3.45 gears? I've been leaning strongly towards getting the 3.64 due to my cars weight and seeing that the D/A boys use them in their beasts.

Lastly, who are you using for your custom tune? My car is strong, but i've lost all bottom-end power since all my headwork and motor rebuild. I've spoken w/ the guys at VFEngineering, but they want 1k for the extra time to tune the car. I almost did it until I found out a local tuner here did a single turbo on a 540 and is getting 411/430 to the wheels (assuming 15% loss through the stock auto tranny and an OPEN :nono: 2.83 diff) using a Unichip piggy back system. Oddly enough, the owner wanted the shop to install a manual boost controller ouich what's another $300 at that point?! OTD it would run about 8k, so i'm thinking i'd rather do that so it'd be easier to play w/ boost levels on the fly using a Greddy ProFec like i've used before in past turbo cars.
 

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E90 M5?

We have had this discussion so many time son this board. There is not any person or parts that can give you the same power and with the same results, refinement or warranty. Nobody. There is no other tuner that offers everything Dinan does and there is not anyone else that makes 400+ wheel N/A.

I haven't went to the track since I put the 3.45's in but I expect to pick up a .10 minimum. On the road and when compared to my buddies vette and my other Buddy's 335i(tune) The 3.45's make a huge difference. I also have Bf Goodrich DR's and that is making all the difference in the world. When I drive the car around town I can do a 2000-2500 clutch dump and the car will launch without any tire spin, this is even with the coil-overs.

I was and still am very shocked. When i ran the 12.48 i had a large amount of wheel spin in first and slight spin in second. Now with the lower gears and DR's I do not get any wheel spin in first or second. I am very confident I can run a 12.20-12.30 or better the way it sits.

I do not have a custom tune, i have dinan stage 5 S/W

As for the turbo comment, yes turbos rock and within the next year or two i will be doing a custom twin turbo set up on my car. I will be doing everything except the tune. It is very easy to get power out of a car wit a turbo, I had a 1.8T VW engine making way over 425WHP with a turbo an it was a perfect daily driver and it never had an issue or hic-up.... Ever. My jetta would embarrass my Dinan S-2 on the highway and I do mean Embarrass!

So I agree with you... turbo's rock. I wouldn't run a piggy back if there was any other option, just bad practice nowadays. I would get a custom tune on the stock DME if possible. greddy profec is an awesome boost controller and can be a bunch of fun going from pump to race gas boost levels.

Like I said before there isn't anyone making as much power as dinan N/A. I am sure it can be done but nobody is doing it. I wonder why. Yes Dinan is expensive but the products rock. look on this forum or on any online forum, you will see numerous people not happy with all these other tuners performance, reliability, refinement etc. The do a search for dinan. You get what you pay for. Like I said it is expensive but for the most well rounder performance package Dinan cannot be matched. Definitely not for less money,

Ryan



I think your forgot to type E90 M5. You've got quite a healthy list of mods and good results, my point is it can be had for less to get the same results...but that's me.

How much have your numbers changed between the 3.15 and 3.45 gears? I've been leaning strongly towards getting the 3.64 due to my cars weight and seeing that the D/A boys use them in their beasts.

Lastly, who are you using for your custom tune? My car is strong, but i've lost all bottom-end power since all my headwork and motor rebuild. I've spoken w/ the guys at VFEngineering, but they want 1k for the extra time to tune the car. I almost did it until I found out a local tuner here did a single turbo on a 540 and is getting 411/430 to the wheels (assuming 15% loss through the stock auto tranny and an OPEN :nono: 2.83 diff) using a Unichip piggy back system. Oddly enough, the owner wanted the shop to install a manual boost controller ouich what's another $300 at that point?! OTD it would run about 8k, so i'm thinking i'd rather do that so it'd be easier to play w/ boost levels on the fly using a Greddy ProFec like i've used before in past turbo cars.
 

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I think your forgot to type E90 M5. You've got quite a healthy list of mods and good results, my point is it can be had for less to get the same results...but that's me.
.
what's an e90 m5?

Still waiting to see the first non-dinan equipped car break 400whp, naturally aspirated.
 

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I meant whatever the new V10 M5 is, I don't remember the model designation. I posted some pics of the turbo kit, then stepped away and forgot to post them...dee dee dee. As for other aftermarket choices, I still believe there are cheaper options for exhaust, intakes, etc through places like Supersprint, Magnaflow, Powerchips, VFE, etc. Just like your 1.8T, you probably didn't use the MOST expensive tuner and/or parts...you pieced the best of all parts from different manufacturers. God knows going to MazdaSpeed didn't make my RX7TT a screamer, nor did TRD make my MR2T or my Tacoma the fastest thing on the road. I personally don't have a problem using different parts from various aftermarket manufacturers since everyone is just copying everyone else anyways, all competing for a lower price - similar specs, 1/3 to 1/2 the price, i'm all over it.

Either way, congrats on the numbers, I look forward to being in the same range as you soon enough...between the bike, the car, and the company, more money is going out then coming in ;)
 

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Personally, I look for the best product - not the most expensive. For engine tuning I have not found anyone who does N/A E39 mods better. If there was, I'd have bought their products. Pretty simple.
 

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Personally, I look for the best product - not the most expensive. For engine tuning I have not found anyone who does N/A E39 mods better. If there was, I'd have bought their products. Pretty simple.


Before this gets into a dinan bashing- this stemmed from a comment about a Dinan Exhaust and a Dinan CAI- two upgrades that virtually ANY of you will agree do not add [much] power ON THEIR OWN.

Ryan turned this into an "S2 is the best 470HP NA kit"..that was not what the comment was about.
 

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Next we installed two 12" pieces of pipe behind the cats and inserted the magnaflow X-pipe.
HP [email protected] Torq [email protected] (really broad peak 3600-4700 over 340ft-lbs)
Dragonfly, I'd suggest placing the cutouts at the end of the X-pipe like the run above. Why kill off what worked on your test?
 

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Before this gets into a dinan bashing- this stemmed from a comment about a Dinan Exhaust and a Dinan CAI- two upgrades that virtually ANY of you will agree do not add [much] power ON THEIR OWN.
-Dinan CAI gains 6hp, mufflers gain an additional 3hp. I know of no other mufflers or CAI that has proven to gain more. Then there's Dinan's headers, that gain 28hp. Some others can match the peak HP, but sacrifice some of the low end power. What is "much" or "not much" is pretty subjective, like asking if something is "worth it", but there are the numbers.
 
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