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Discussion Starter #1
and with another car up for sale at munich legends .
with the muinch lengends backup
When are people going to learn that the scariest thing a UK M5 can have is a Munich Legends connection?

Most of their work I see is "bill heavily, replace little".
 

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stevie
i did not know that the cars for sale where connectedto munich legends.
that would explain the hihg price of the car no9.
if it has there warranty it is well worth the money.
i agree that there cars are pricey but if you spend £15.000 on car you want some come back .
regards john
 

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Stevie,

You are perfectly entitled to state your opinion on this board - 'the scariest thing a UK M5 can have is a Munich Legends connection'.

Please allow me to present an alternative view.

There can be no doubt that these guys do know the cars inside out. Many of the GB E28 M5's have passed through their workshop at one time or another and plenty through their showrooms. M-cars are the core of their business and it's surely very much to their credit they continue to focus on the older cars even though the market is moving on.

Try naming other specialists in the UK that have seen as many E28 M5's, regularly maintain more than 5 and have been continuously in business as long. Where else in the UK can you find a dealer that is still prepared to source, prepare, warrant and sell an E28 M5?

High price? Of course. They have to prepare a car for sale - the longer in the tooth they are, the more wants doing. These are old cars and some are absolute rotters. ML have to pay their own workshop (and subcontractor/s)to prepare (and sometimes, later, repair) the car. They have to turn a profit or they won't be around to offer free advice, still less fix a car.

Let's not forget - there's no such thing as cheap M5 ownership, unless one happens to be a qualified (or competent self-taught) technician and zero value is placed on the expenditure of time. Even then, parts are still at usual BMW levels.

I do find it helpful to ask for a written estimate beforehand and to insist on authorising anything outside the terms of the estimate. This, I suggest, should be normal practice when dealing with any repairer.

I must stress that I'm not in the business of defending the motor trade in general and am in no way connected with ML - other than as a largely satisfied customer of ten years' standing.

An E28 M5 is now an old car and because it's still worth a bit - even when broken for parts - is a prime target for bodgers. Uncovering bodges and rectifying them is never going to be a pleasant or cheap experience with any car, irrespective of the repairer that does it.

Buy the best car you can find and afford. It will save grief later - I speak from experience.

My daily driver ('premium brand', not a BMW, prosaic model, see my profile) had a main-dealer 120k service earlier this year: it needed a cambelt and tensioner replacement (60k interval), a gearbox mounting, both engine mountings, an impact sensor (airbag light on), a number plate light bulb (corroded fixture), replacement of part of the front undertray (split) and not much else. The bill, with VAT, was £2127: I'm in the fortunate position that it's a business tool and someone else was paying. Perhaps that puts things in perspective?

Healthy debate is always good....I'm going to climb off my soapbox now so someone else can have a go!

Regards as always

Mfiver
 

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I personally have no experience of ML save for our E28 M5 UK RHD 21st Birthday meet culminating at their premises in June of this year .

I found them to be hospitable and enthusiastic about the cars , both ours and theirs .

I have heard many a horror story about them and number 66 , Diamond Diana , has had many a visit there but i have never had any business dealings directly with ML , so do not feel qualified to comment .
 

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More from the soapbox...

John (sorry...)

No raw nerves here - do I detect sour grapes over there?

I just don't think it fair (or good manners) to generalise in such a negative way about a specific supplier in open forum.

If a client of any retail establishment is in any way dissatisfied, then normally redress is achieved by complaining directly. People who are dissatisfied tell more people about their experience than those who are satisfied and those who remain unhappy will take their custom elsewhere. A company that continually fails to provide satisfactory service will eventually go out of business.

ML have been around for quite a while so their business model appears to be sound, at least to date.

I want to read factual information on a forum like this - on the basis that there appear to be others that also wish to do so, I try to make what I write factual and accurate.

Your point about the media is interesting - I'm sure articles can and do fuel interest in specific models so maybe this can have an effect, although surely short-term. I would observe that these magazines exist so their publishers can make money out of enthusiasts, whether armchair or otherwise.

Linking values to articles is much more tenuous - the supply of information is much, much better than it was a decade ago, thanks to the proliferation of specialist titles across a wide variety of interests and not just cars. And of course we have the interweb.

Clubs and forums? A great way of locating and talking to other owners and of sharing experiences - why change an SI board at £250+ when the problem might be fixed by changing a fuse that costs 10p?

I guess different people get different things out of a club - you only have to flick through any recent issue of the BMW Car Club GB monthly journal for that to be clear. A club that delivers a narrow range is always going to have a small membership!

Anyway, it's past my bedtime and this pumpkin is heading for his pit!

Regards

Mfiver
 

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John,

Prices all have to do with condition which depends on how they have aged. A low mileage car that requires little or no work is worth it's money and can command more then 50% more then the going rate of a car that has been used over the years but was well maintained and shows no faults. If the car also is well specced (individual), it can fetch even more.

On the other hand, a car that is in need of a restoration reflects that in its value which can be less then 10% of that for a good example.
Well said that man, I think raymond has summed up the pricing of these cars very well.

IMHO the 29000 mile car that was sold for a whopping £20,000 recently has started all of this controversy. Many believe that this car has now set a precedent and that everyones M5 is now worth 40% more than it was two weeks ago.While I do believe that prices for E28 M5's are rising, I also believe that people will pay a huge premium for a very low mileage time warp mint example over even a good example. How often do practically brand new E28 M5's come up for sale?

Case in point, ML have a very presentable 115,000 mile example for £13995, but it has been on the market for a while and has not sold yet, so nobody has been prepared to pay the asking price for it. The 29000 mile example was sold after being on the market just 2 days and it could probably have been sold a couple of times over.

The market will always decide what these cars are worth.

Regards,

Bayerische
 

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Well said that man, I think raymond has summed up the pricing of these cars very well.

IMHO the 29000 mile car that was sold for a whopping £20,000 recently has started all of this controversy. Many believe that this car has now set a precedent and that everyones M5 is now worth 40% more than it was two weeks ago.While I do believe that prices for E28 M5's are rising, I also believe that people will pay a huge premium for a very low mileage time warp mint example over even a good example. How often do practically brand new E28 M5's come up for sale?

Case in point, ML have a very presentable 115,000 mile example for £13995, but it has been on the market for a while and has not sold yet, so nobody has been prepared to pay the asking price for it. The 29000 mile example was sold after being on the market just 2 days and it could probably have been sold a couple of times over.

The market will always decide what these cars are worth.

Regards,

Bayerische
bayerische
you have hit the nail on the head
this is the point that i have been trying to get to too.
i think car no9 is a great looking car and with only 80k lowish mileage.
but is no 29k minter showroom condition.
i looked at this car when it was up for sale last time with the second owner,
simon.
and i viewed the 29k car when it was at mls for sale and you cant compare the two cars ,no9 is a very useable classic car ,
and i think 15k is very strong.
i think the owner of the car has like you said add 40% to price.
so my point is i think no9 is too much money.
ps it is not me that have made bad comments about mls .
thanks to you all john:applause:
 

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John,

I was not pointing the finger at any individual, I was speaking in general terms. I would like to think that my car is worth 40% more now, but my point is that until someone actually hands you a bankers draft for your asking price you don't know what its worth.

I have no problem with people or specialist garages asking what they feel is market value for their cars, that is just good business and I would do the same. You would be foolish to undersell your car especially in a market where prices seem to be on the up.

The market decides price not vendors.

Anyway it's all healthy debate.

Regards,

Bayerische.
 

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Merry Christmas guys and Gals .....

Happy New Year to you all !

John , I knew that you had a point to make somewhere amongst all of this and I am happy that you have finally got around to it ......

I take it that you won't be coming to see No 9 for a test drive .

She currently remains in a dry , warm barn in rural Suffolk , clocking up very few additional miles on her weekly run .......The current owner is in no hurry to sell her and we'll see what develops .

Perhaps we can rekindle this thread next Christmas when there are even fewer decent examples of E28 M5 about to see what values are at then ?!

Meanwhile , look after your wonderful cars gentlemen .....they are true classics !
 

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Sorry for the late reply Mfiver, but here goes.

As far as I've read the last 10 years the fable of all S14 and S38 needing timing chain replacements was spread by ML. Have a 15 year subsrciption to Classic and Sportscar to prove that, and about 7 years of T&CC to back it up.

There's also an Australian member who recently had to perform a HUGE structural restoration on his rotten M635CSi, while the ML PPI said the car structuraly sound.

A touring now maintained by SebringNL came with a "full ML service history" while almost every common e34 failure still needed correcting. Makes you wonder what they did besides write the bills???

If their service is as wonderful as you say it is why did Farrell start his business? I don't disagree that they've handled a lot of these cars, and are the number one specialist in SALES of "classic" M machinery. I just don't think their service department is what it's propped up to be. YES, the cars presented by them are nicely polished, clean, and just ooze that great germanic quality. Unfortunatly (in my opinion) that beauty is often skin deep, as they seem to concentrate on that beauty and not on getting the cars technicaly healthy. Lucky for them it's often not technical perfection that sells cars, it's shinyness and specs......


Stevie,

You are perfectly entitled to state your opinion on this board - 'the scariest thing a UK M5 can have is a Munich Legends connection'.

Please allow me to present an alternative view.

There can be no doubt that these guys do know the cars inside out. Many of the GB E28 M5's have passed through their workshop at one time or another and plenty through their showrooms. M-cars are the core of their business and it's surely very much to their credit they continue to focus on the older cars even though the market is moving on.

Try naming other specialists in the UK that have seen as many E28 M5's, regularly maintain more than 5 and have been continuously in business as long. Where else in the UK can you find a dealer that is still prepared to source, prepare, warrant and sell an E28 M5?

High price? Of course. They have to prepare a car for sale - the longer in the tooth they are, the more wants doing. These are old cars and some are absolute rotters. ML have to pay their own workshop (and subcontractor/s)to prepare (and sometimes, later, repair) the car. They have to turn a profit or they won't be around to offer free advice, still less fix a car.

Let's not forget - there's no such thing as cheap M5 ownership, unless one happens to be a qualified (or competent self-taught) technician and zero value is placed on the expenditure of time. Even then, parts are still at usual BMW levels.

I do find it helpful to ask for a written estimate beforehand and to insist on authorising anything outside the terms of the estimate. This, I suggest, should be normal practice when dealing with any repairer.

I must stress that I'm not in the business of defending the motor trade in general and am in no way connected with ML - other than as a largely satisfied customer of ten years' standing.

An E28 M5 is now an old car and because it's still worth a bit - even when broken for parts - is a prime target for bodgers. Uncovering bodges and rectifying them is never going to be a pleasant or cheap experience with any car, irrespective of the repairer that does it.

Buy the best car you can find and afford. It will save grief later - I speak from experience.

My daily driver ('premium brand', not a BMW, prosaic model, see my profile) had a main-dealer 120k service earlier this year: it needed a cambelt and tensioner replacement (60k interval), a gearbox mounting, both engine mountings, an impact sensor (airbag light on), a number plate light bulb (corroded fixture), replacement of part of the front undertray (split) and not much else. The bill, with VAT, was £2127: I'm in the fortunate position that it's a business tool and someone else was paying. Perhaps that puts things in perspective?

Healthy debate is always good....I'm going to climb off my soapbox now so someone else can have a go!

Regards as always

Mfiver
 

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Stevie,

Thanks for the reply....hope you have had an enjoyable Christmas.

I don't recall saying in any of my earlier posts that this particular specialist offered a 'wonderful service'. That is an interpretation you have placed on my words in open forum for others to read!

What I did say, though, was that I have used them for ten years and that I am generally satisfied. This is entirely factual but is of course not necessarily representative of their other clients.

There's nothing to stop others coming into the market to try their hand - if they can make a long-term proposition out of it then that's good for them and their customers. Distance is also relevant to some.

As far as the 'myth' is concerned, I have read the same mags since they were first published, although these days I admit I tend to buy only the issues that are of particular interest because many articles seem to be be recycled.

It is a fact that there is no scheduled BMW chain replacement interval for this engine, nor for any other component inside the timing case (unless someone more knowledgable can advise otherwise).

Is the need for chain replacement a myth? I'm not sure I'd call it that. Single-row chains can and do fail, though in 10 years of close interest, I've only actually seen the aftermath of one myself - touch wood - (an M635CSi with approx. 162k) but I think cookiemonster has direct experience.

There are also no doubt quite a few cars running with impressive mileages that have never been opened up.

I fully accept that ML want to keep their workshop in business and that selling 'chain jobs' is probably a reasonable earner. They have seen a good proportion of these cars over the years (though they can't control the quality of cars that their clients bring to them for service and/or repair) and it would be interesting to hear how many chain failures they have actually repaired.

I suggest that this could be as much about customer satisfaction as it is about keeping the workshop in business. Few owners (especially new ones)will want to have a sudden and very expensive engine failure that might leave them stranded miles from home at an awkward time - and not all owners are technically inclined, although this presumably changes as the cars get older.

From a personal perspective I'd like to know how many failures are caused by the breakage of a nylon guide rail - a relatively cheap part that will become embrittled over time and exposure to oil. Any displaced object floating round inside the timing case will be sufficient to cause catastrophe. Once a failure has occurred it's too late and of purely academic interest as to what actually caused it.

It would be remiss of any specialist to fail to pass on the benefit of their experience if they knew that a timing failure (i.e. not necessarily chain) becomes increasingly likely at over 100k miles. The cost of rebuilding a failed engine where the pistons have hit the valves is likely to be much greater than a planned/budgeted chain (and other timing parts) replacement. The situation changes over time - in the ten years I have maintained an interest in these cars, they have doubled in age and this will inevitably make it a bit easier and cheaper (at least for a while) to get hold of a secondhand engine from a scrapper.

A chain job is effectively an insurance policy, if it's not rattling and it's done at or around 100k (or any mileage, for that matter). When taking it it all to bits you might as well replace all the moving/wearing parts because at least it shouldn't then need the engine out/opening up again to replace something else - labour is expensive. Where do you stop? Do you put the original clutch back...and the driveshaft rubber coupling (guibo)? This must all be down to owner preference and budget.

If one strictly applies the professional fleet operator's 'inspect and repair as necessary' perspective then it won't be appropriate to open the engine up until it starts rattling. But if it is rattling, then perhaps one is getting perilously close to failure. Some owners just won't want to take the risk of getting that close - and the older they get, then the risk must increase.

On the other subjects:

The PPI report relating to an exported car is a potentially complicated issue and possibly one for lawyers to argue. Who commissioned the report? Is the car exported and restored actually the same one that the specialist saw? It seems a bit one-sided to pillory a specialist for an issue that involves a third party.

As far as service history is concerned, any car can have a book full of stamps but it's fairly meaningless without the invoices to back it up. Only with these to hand can it be seen what has actually been replaced and when. No doubt some issues can recur if they are a weakness and the parts specification has never changed to correct them. Perhaps these issues have been flagged to a previous owner but that owner has declined to commit the required expenditure, wishing to spend only the minimum which will get the book stamped?

Every car sales operation will focus on presentation. Surely this is the factor that actually changes the status of a stock car to a sold car. No dealer will commit serious mechanical expenditure on a stock car up front, in case it doesn't sell and they have to send it to auction. Mechanical work will be done when the deposit funds have cleared and the buyer is committed and only then on an 'inspect and repair as necessary' basis - but perhaps influenced by any warranty terms.

For any specialist selling elderly performance machinery, it can't be easy matching buyer expectations with reality.

From a personal perspective I'm just glad there are specialists out there to help indulge me in my expensive hobby - if I am dissatisfied with service or repair quality, then I'll complain and take whatever other action is necessary to reach a successful conclusion. In that case, posting here is likely to be very low on my list of priorities but I recognise that others will have different views!

Looking forward to more healthy debate in the New Year...

Regards

Mfiver
 

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hi stevie and mfiver
if it is a myth then maybe stevie would like to bung me the £4500 that it cost me to repair a chain faliure.
if i had done what mls said i would still be the owner of no9
i cant belive that the m635csi was so rotten that it needed a huge resto.
if it was that bad surely the buyer would have noticed it hiself even you are not a car nut.
getting back to chain faliure problems
with very few cars running this engine.
the stats are not going to show up problems .
i have worked with friends in car trade for years.
and the work carried out in changing the chain and is not as profit making as some may think.
e.g i can make alot more money changing iol and filters .
without tying up a bay in a workshop for fair few days.
also i think some of comments on here are on thin blue line of slander.
if it was my company i would not be too chuffed .
all the best
cookie
 

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As far as I've read the last 10 years the fable of all S14 and S38 needing timing chain replacements
Too late for a long reply, but please re-read the above sentence. It says S14 and S38. It does NOT say M88, because those DO need replacement, and I'm not saying otherwise, am I? Am also looking forward to continuation, but just arrived at Norschleife, and need some sleep! Speak soon!
 

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Hi fellas
I also agree that Singlex chain on M88 is most certainly something to look out for in E24 & E28
Engines so equipped.
The intial lash, regardless of optimum tension applied via tensioner & guides
is hard going for a Singlex chain in M88.
Theres around 50% extra reciprocating mass to deal with on drive & coast.
Compared to S14 variant.
Although the starter initiates the cranking movement, once the firing cycle
is engaged there is alot of mass there for the chain to deal with.

Cookie was was very unlucky with D50 LUD.
(I prepped her for its current owner & I love this carlovelove)
Hindsight comments are generally not helpful but....
Wear on drive chain is a function of age & mileage imho.
I would suggest that as a rule of thumb a 100k mile chain change assuming
10k miles per yr is sensible.
A 20 yr old car thats done 3k miles per year....can you hear the time bomb ticking;)

The S14 is not remotely as critical in this respect with givens that stupid
rpm limits are not employed.
A relatively std engine, well serviced will go way way past 100k miles &
rarely break a sweat in my experience of ownership & some work
on these in the past.

What should be considered here is that chain tensioners as originally fitted
can become a liability. ( again, age, use & abuse etc play a big part)
They are over complex, with internal parts subject to fatigue & leakage.
They like undoing themselves also.
I make a very clear point of inspecting the tensioner assembly on the //M
vehicles that come my way.
After having received two vehicles this year for servicing & finding that
the original 3 piece tensioner fitted in this instance to E34M5 had loosened
at the top 17mm nut holding the diaphragm to the main tensioner spring
housing.
This allowed the body of the tensioner ( 55Nm into engine) to work
loose due to drive chain resonance & engine vibration & back out nearly 6mm
in both cases.
Was chain tension affected ?
Leaking diaphragm & tensioner not fitted into engine properly ???

If you don't know history of vehicle or owners for that matter, then I would
suggest the fitment of S50B32 tensioner.
Clean simple design that a 32mm socket with 70 Nm applied will deal with
most worries comprehensively.
(And, as long as 7,500 rpm plus is not planned in a straight 6....no issues)
Its an easier piece to Torque check in the future also.

A small note on chain guides.
Yes, they have been known to break up.
Its rare for it to occur.
The fact that most of these engines start weeping from front timing
covers & sumps tends to mean that inspection of this area comes before failure.
Even so, I have seen high mileage hard used cars in for oil leaks.
The guides were fine.

Obviously, most owners will not recognise all the symptoms or see them either.
That fact along with many other similar issues on the S14, M88, S38 engines
is not lost on some of our so called specialists, one of which has featured
prominantly in this discussion.

I note one comment by Cookie regarding the blue line of slander.
I think / hope it was a general comment about negative comments
about a particular specialist.
Indeed, we should be careful that we do not say something that
can't be substantiated.
I take photos of all the tasks I undertake on theses vehicles before
& after.
The customer gets a CD outlining the work.
I have a comprehensive picture library of each vehicle.
I also have, where relevant, the service receipt for previous work
carried out for that vehicle when I find problems that does not reconcile
with those works previously carried out.
The specialist mentioned within this thread is not that special.
I am very concerned at what I have seen & documented.
I can support all my comments factually.

I could talk to you about the production set shim removed from the inlet
side of No 6 cylinder.
This is the factory shim.
I removed it after 15 yrs & 90k miles of use this year.
I won't detail who had done the servicing & valve clearances 4 times previously
on this member owned car since 1999.
the clearances on this particular valve were down to 0.07mm cold.
To put into context , nominal on an S38 is 0.28 to 0.32mm cold.
Thats 5 set shim sizes out !
Had that clearance existed on the exhaust side...!:crying:
I changed 7 other shims & moved 2 in that engine.
Anyway, I said I won't go into detail so I will leave it there.;)

Stevies comments may seem strong.
In some cases, maybe so. ( Was I any different 15 yrs ago ?)
What should be clear is this.
Stevie has hands on indepth knowledge of working on all Marques of //M vehicle.
Powertrain ,chasis & brakes are all within his remit.
There are 3 persons in UK & Europe who, besides myself, I would allow to touch my car...
ie walk away & come back knowing the job was done as well as I would
ever do it myself.
One of those persons is Stevie.
(The others do not work for the specialists mentioned:))

Farrell
 

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Excellent post Farrell,

With regard to chain guides becoming brittle over time, this was a concern of mine, as my car is 20 years old with only 50,000 miles. As I have posted previously, ML had the head off my car a couple of months ago undertaking some warranty work and noted that the guides were in good condition, so I guess this brittleness can vary from car to car. I also had them fit an upgraded tensioner.

Would you consider a trip over to Ireland at some point Farrell, if we could pool enough members cars together to make it worth your while? I have 2 M88/3's. I am sure we could round up a couple more.

Regards,

Bayerische
 

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With regard to chain guides becoming brittle over time, this was a concern of mine, as my car is 20 years old with only 50,000 miles. As I have posted previously, ML had the head off my car a couple of months ago undertaking some warranty work and noted that the guides were in good condition, so I guess this brittleness can vary from car to car. I also had them fit an upgraded tensioner.
This is exactly what this is all about. Why reuse old components, even when they suposedly are in good condition when you have the chance of replacing without additional labour cost. That is, if you can determine the quality of the old vs new parts and I doubt that ML discussed this with you.

The problem herein is hat for workshops waiting time for parts is killing. The sooner a car is finished, the sooner the bill can be send out in order to maximize the 'cash flow' rate'. Although one cannot live and pay salaries without, our old cars that we want to keep in the best condition possible require more then this ad-hoq way of work.
 

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Hi Bayerische
Happy to help in anyway I can of course.
I would not be able to come over unless Davidoli was escorting me.;)
I know thats a big burden for you fellas for you to bear.:hihi:
Seriously though.
I have made a special order for 113 150 valve bucket depressor tool for M88
made for me & David @ Cartools so we are set to start his clearances
in the New year.
Changing one or two could be attempted by other means...
Not the number we plan to do !
Right tools for the job first & foremost.

The chain guides is again an emotive issue.
I have not got all the answers on the subject
Its something that can be determined by inspection.

Regular & correct oil viscosity oil changes.
Type of use & abuse of previous owners.
All have an input.
Chemical & material analysis of a failed guide vs a new guide would
give more definative data.

In the abscence of the above, if I were going to the trouble of dealing
with oil leaks, head over haul etc, I don't think I would be able to leave
20 year old chain guides in such a valuble engine.
I could not bear the thought of it & it would eat away at me !
Indeed, I changed my guides in my S38 B38 @ 120k miles.

Cheers
Farrell
 

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This is exactly what this is all about. Why reuse old components, even when they suposedly are in good condition when you have the chance of replacing without additional labour cost. That is, if you can determine the quality of the old vs new parts and I doubt that ML discussed this with you.

The problem herein is hat for workshops waiting time for parts is killing. The sooner a car is finished, the sooner the bill can be send out in order to maximize the 'cash flow' rate'. Although one cannot live and pay salaries without, our old cars that we want to keep in the best condition possible require more then this ad-hoq way of work.
Unfortunately, I was not given the opportunity to have the chain guides and and chain bits replaced as I would have preferred. I agree, if you are going to go to the trouble of removing the head you may as well do the chain bits while you are at it. I would have preferred to have gotten the extra work done at my expense.

The car went in for an oil leak which was suspected to be the head gasket or oil return pipe from the head to the block. When I telephoned to check on the progress of the car, I was informed that they didn't think it was the head gasket at fault, probably the oil return line.

I telephoned again to check on the progress of the car and was informed that the oil return seal had been replaced and as a precaution the head gasket had been replaced also. I explained that I would have preferred to have been informed if they were removing the head as I would have paid for the extra chain work to be carried out. I was assured that they had a good look into the engine and that everything was fine and didn't warrant the extra expense of the chain replacement. I was also assured that if they felt the chain parts were suspect, that I would have received a phone call recommending replacement.

Should I doubt their word? I don't know, I am not an automotive engineer and they have a reputation to uphold. I was a little annoyed though as I feel an ideal opportunity to replace the chain and have that peace of mind was missed. Perhaps, I am partly to blame as I should have stressed that if the head came off, that I wanted the chain replaced at my expense.

Overall, I found ML to be OK, they did alot of remedial work to my car at their expense after they recomissioned the car from a lenghty period in storage.

Regards,

Bayerische
 

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Hi Bayerische
Happy to help in anyway I can of course.
I would not be able to come over unless Davidoli was escorting me.;)
Thats great Farrell, I will PM you when it gets closer to the time and see if we can arrange something. I am sure some other Irish members would be interested. The M88/S38 was sold in very very small numbers over here back in the day, and as such specialists/dealers have little or no experience on the engine.

I am sure we can also introduce yourself and David to a few pints of the black stuff cherrsagaito quench your thirst, and to talk about all things M power.

Come to think of it Mfiver, a meet over here in the summer perhaps? Might be a bit far though.

Regards,

Bayerische
 

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Thanks you for the feathers Farrell. I didn't see those coming!

With regard to chain guides becoming brittle over time, this was a concern of mine, as my car is 20 years old with only 50,000 miles. As I have posted previously, ML had the head off my car a couple of months ago undertaking some warranty work and noted that the guides were in good condition, so I guess this brittleness can vary from car to car. I also had them fit an upgraded tensioner.
@ Bayerische, thank you for posting this. I can't believe you're so calm about this, as I would be absolutely livid. Every single cent they spent doing the warranty work, you will unfortunatly have to spend again in the next few years because they couldn't be arsed to give you the choice to do the job right. Plastic exposed to oil going through who-knows-how-many heat cycles doesn't keep it's strength 25 years, no matter who says "it looks OK".

@ Cookie, I am not leaning towards slander, I just have a different opinion, and a different approach. I know it's an aggravation for the business to have a car on ramps for 2 weeks waiting for parts, but looking at this from the car-owner's point of view that is not my problem. These cars are rarely daily drivers, and usualy not an only car, so what do I care how long it takes to get the parts? Put it in the corner under a blanket while it waits, or set it aside, but just enough in the way to motivate getting it finished! I also learned the hard way that a half-done repair is wasted money because you get to spend the full load (and then some) the second time to put it right. Which is why I sometimes postpone a big (often preventive) job on my own cars until I can do/plan/afford/arrange the whole thing all at once, and why I have a runaround as a daily. Downtime is part of owning a classic or in my case high mileage car. I have no commercial interest in this matter so slander brings me nothing. You mention a line, well, let's say being dutch I know about that line. I just don't know about being politically correct the last 25% of the way to the line. Thankfuly!

The way I see it: You take and engine to an enginebuilder, leatherwork to an upholsterer, get tires at a tireman and have clearances, throttlebodies and the project management done by someone who knows and loves the cars in question. That has meant doing a lot myself, because although I know and use a brilliant enginebuilder I don't know very many people who I think are capable of setting up an M88 or S38. Although that number is at last growing because people like Farrell and SebringNL are investing the time and the money to set that up.

Using one "marque specialist" for everything is like having your heart flaps changed by the domestic doctor because you can't be arsed to go see a cardiologist.
 
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