Well said that man, I think raymond has summed up the pricing of these cars very well.John,
Prices all have to do with condition which depends on how they have aged. A low mileage car that requires little or no work is worth it's money and can command more then 50% more then the going rate of a car that has been used over the years but was well maintained and shows no faults. If the car also is well specced (individual), it can fetch even more.
On the other hand, a car that is in need of a restoration reflects that in its value which can be less then 10% of that for a good example.
bayerischeWell said that man, I think raymond has summed up the pricing of these cars very well.
IMHO the 29000 mile car that was sold for a whopping £20,000 recently has started all of this controversy. Many believe that this car has now set a precedent and that everyones M5 is now worth 40% more than it was two weeks ago.While I do believe that prices for E28 M5's are rising, I also believe that people will pay a huge premium for a very low mileage time warp mint example over even a good example. How often do practically brand new E28 M5's come up for sale?
Case in point, ML have a very presentable 115,000 mile example for £13995, but it has been on the market for a while and has not sold yet, so nobody has been prepared to pay the asking price for it. The 29000 mile example was sold after being on the market just 2 days and it could probably have been sold a couple of times over.
The market will always decide what these cars are worth.
You are perfectly entitled to state your opinion on this board - 'the scariest thing a UK M5 can have is a Munich Legends connection'.
Please allow me to present an alternative view.
There can be no doubt that these guys do know the cars inside out. Many of the GB E28 M5's have passed through their workshop at one time or another and plenty through their showrooms. M-cars are the core of their business and it's surely very much to their credit they continue to focus on the older cars even though the market is moving on.
Try naming other specialists in the UK that have seen as many E28 M5's, regularly maintain more than 5 and have been continuously in business as long. Where else in the UK can you find a dealer that is still prepared to source, prepare, warrant and sell an E28 M5?
High price? Of course. They have to prepare a car for sale - the longer in the tooth they are, the more wants doing. These are old cars and some are absolute rotters. ML have to pay their own workshop (and subcontractor/s)to prepare (and sometimes, later, repair) the car. They have to turn a profit or they won't be around to offer free advice, still less fix a car.
Let's not forget - there's no such thing as cheap M5 ownership, unless one happens to be a qualified (or competent self-taught) technician and zero value is placed on the expenditure of time. Even then, parts are still at usual BMW levels.
I do find it helpful to ask for a written estimate beforehand and to insist on authorising anything outside the terms of the estimate. This, I suggest, should be normal practice when dealing with any repairer.
I must stress that I'm not in the business of defending the motor trade in general and am in no way connected with ML - other than as a largely satisfied customer of ten years' standing.
An E28 M5 is now an old car and because it's still worth a bit - even when broken for parts - is a prime target for bodgers. Uncovering bodges and rectifying them is never going to be a pleasant or cheap experience with any car, irrespective of the repairer that does it.
Buy the best car you can find and afford. It will save grief later - I speak from experience.
My daily driver ('premium brand', not a BMW, prosaic model, see my profile) had a main-dealer 120k service earlier this year: it needed a cambelt and tensioner replacement (60k interval), a gearbox mounting, both engine mountings, an impact sensor (airbag light on), a number plate light bulb (corroded fixture), replacement of part of the front undertray (split) and not much else. The bill, with VAT, was £2127: I'm in the fortunate position that it's a business tool and someone else was paying. Perhaps that puts things in perspective?
Healthy debate is always good....I'm going to climb off my soapbox now so someone else can have a go!
Regards as always
Too late for a long reply, but please re-read the above sentence. It says S14 and S38. It does NOT say M88, because those DO need replacement, and I'm not saying otherwise, am I? Am also looking forward to continuation, but just arrived at Norschleife, and need some sleep! Speak soon!As far as I've read the last 10 years the fable of all S14 and S38 needing timing chain replacements
This is exactly what this is all about. Why reuse old components, even when they suposedly are in good condition when you have the chance of replacing without additional labour cost. That is, if you can determine the quality of the old vs new parts and I doubt that ML discussed this with you.With regard to chain guides becoming brittle over time, this was a concern of mine, as my car is 20 years old with only 50,000 miles. As I have posted previously, ML had the head off my car a couple of months ago undertaking some warranty work and noted that the guides were in good condition, so I guess this brittleness can vary from car to car. I also had them fit an upgraded tensioner.
Unfortunately, I was not given the opportunity to have the chain guides and and chain bits replaced as I would have preferred. I agree, if you are going to go to the trouble of removing the head you may as well do the chain bits while you are at it. I would have preferred to have gotten the extra work done at my expense.This is exactly what this is all about. Why reuse old components, even when they suposedly are in good condition when you have the chance of replacing without additional labour cost. That is, if you can determine the quality of the old vs new parts and I doubt that ML discussed this with you.
The problem herein is hat for workshops waiting time for parts is killing. The sooner a car is finished, the sooner the bill can be send out in order to maximize the 'cash flow' rate'. Although one cannot live and pay salaries without, our old cars that we want to keep in the best condition possible require more then this ad-hoq way of work.
Thats great Farrell, I will PM you when it gets closer to the time and see if we can arrange something. I am sure some other Irish members would be interested. The M88/S38 was sold in very very small numbers over here back in the day, and as such specialists/dealers have little or no experience on the engine.Hi Bayerische
Happy to help in anyway I can of course.
I would not be able to come over unless Davidoli was escorting me.
@ Bayerische, thank you for posting this. I can't believe you're so calm about this, as I would be absolutely livid. Every single cent they spent doing the warranty work, you will unfortunatly have to spend again in the next few years because they couldn't be arsed to give you the choice to do the job right. Plastic exposed to oil going through who-knows-how-many heat cycles doesn't keep it's strength 25 years, no matter who says "it looks OK".With regard to chain guides becoming brittle over time, this was a concern of mine, as my car is 20 years old with only 50,000 miles. As I have posted previously, ML had the head off my car a couple of months ago undertaking some warranty work and noted that the guides were in good condition, so I guess this brittleness can vary from car to car. I also had them fit an upgraded tensioner.