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Official Dinan representative
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We’ve heard about difficulties with our V10 throttle bodies, particularly how the product has had defects and people’s cars have spent long times in the shop during installation. After checking into it, the problems have all been installation errors. The installation follows a BMW procedure, but many technicians are still struggling with it. To reduce the instances of this in the future we have rewritten the installation instructions, adding steps to the BMW procedure outlining the common mistakes. In addition we have listed the faults that get set when the throttle bodies are installed incorrectly and indicated what causes the fault to make problems easier to troubleshoot. Since this change, the instances of problems have greatly reduced. We were pretty confident from the beginning that it was not a manufacturing defect because every throttle body is flowed on a flow bench and matched as a set.



Lastly, and on a completely different note, I want to thank those of you who’ve been messaging me with Dinan-related questions. I’m a new intern at Dinan, and a mechanical engineering undergraduate student. My primary responsibility here is to post information for you all and to be available to answer your questions. Often times I won’t be quick to respond because I’m still in the learning process, and Steve Dinan is usually by my side when I’m giving anyone information. If you need immediate response, our tech line is your best bet (1800-341-5480). Nonetheless, keep the questions coming, and also keep an eye out for tech articles that Steve Dinan and I will be writing in the future.


Thanks!


Steve Breen
 

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I think you may have opened a huge can of worms. So the defects have all been installation oriented? Does that also explain the inability of others to recreate any horsepower gains on dynos (per multiple board members)? Or is this just an explanation for faults that are occurring?
 

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Duck and Cover!:eek:oohhh: I am not sure what sound airborne rangers make, but whatever it is, I think I hear it coming!:hihi:
 

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Would be interesting to see the flow rates of the Dinan Throttle Bodies compared to stock and corresponding dyno graph substantiating those gains.
 

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and the can of worms just opened up
 

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Thanks for the update. We are all interested in spending money on products that provide real world gains and can be verified. The more evidence that can be provided to support the value of these products the better.

As a board community we try to assist each other in proving out various products. Collectively we can gather a lot of information and help fellow members to buy the best mods.

To the extent that you maintain a presense on the board to answer questions it will be very helpful. Welcome to the board and keep the posts coming.
 

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But no explanation as to why the ones that ARE correctly installed are not showing gains?
 

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Duck and Cover!:eek:oohhh: I am not sure what sound airborne rangers make, but whatever it is, I think I hear it coming!:hihi:

This made me laugh :haha:

I am sure Juan's post will be a well thought out one asking pertinent questions to Steve Breen. :typing:

If not than we all need to run and hide!! :hihi:
 

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Seems Juan has gone dark here. That has me even more worried.

On a serious note, what you really need to do is address the issue that there appear to be no demonstrable gains with the TBs. So, even ignoring the significant question of install issues, please explain the cost/benefit analysis of this mod and why it is something we should consider.

Keep in mind 2 things:

1. I am not per se anti-Dinan. I have close to $10K of Dinan parts on my car (although no engine mods); and

2. Like most other people here, I am willing to spend money where there is value. I do, however, want to see a substantiated benefit for the expenditure. In other words, I don't mind blowing my money and sending my kid to community college instead of Harvard as long as there is something in it for me.:hihi:
 
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'Have a question....

Seems Juan has gone dark here. That has me even more worried.

On a serious note, what you really need to do is address the issue that there appear to be no demonstrable gains with the TBs. So, even ignoring the significant question of install issues, please explain the cost/benefit analysis of this mod and why it is something we should consider.

Keep in mind 2 things:

1. I am not per se anti-Dinan. I have close to $10K of Dinan parts on my car (although no engine mods); and

2. Like most other people here, I am willing to spend money where there is value. I do, however, want to see a substantiated benefit for the expenditure. In other words, I don't mind blowing my money and sending my kid to community college instead of Harvard as long as there is something in it for me.:hihi:
Pardon my dumb question, but I only have a 3rd grade mentality; so please bear with me.

Dinan's claim for TB mod is 13 "maximum" crank HP and 8 "maximum" tq gains; all at 8100 rpm (this would be in 5th gear, per their own testing. I'm not sure what speed you'd be going in 5th gear, @ 8100 rpm).

'Cost is $3k + 11 hours labor for install; or about $4100 (if your shop's labor rate is $100 per hour). Stage II software is "recommended for optimum performance and drivability"; but not required. 'Not sure what their recommendation means, 'cause BMW's ECU adjustment range should be able to easily adjust for this "air in" mod, given TB small % engine output increase.

But, for the sake of my question, let's say you want to follow Dinan's recommendation and buy the software, too. That's an additional $1100 + $50 for 1/2 hour labor. So, total $$$ (not including sales tax) would be ~$5250.

Now let's say your friendly, local Dinan dealer offers a 10% (parts and labor) BMWCCA member discount. So, all in, your cost would be $4725 + sales tax on parts.

Question: Assuming the stated gains (max - 13 crank hp + 8 max tq; @ very high rpms and 5th gear speeds) are actually proven to be valid, would you buy the mod @ the above price?? And remember, as M5Ranger has stated (and he's correct), gains from various mods are NOT sequentially additive; they all kick in, drop off, and/or produce different results along the power curve; depending on the mod mix and software tune that drives them. So, when answering my question, you can't assume a TB mod is going to be 100% additive to whatever other mods are on the car.

I'd like to know who thinks this mod (with independantly verified performance as stated by Dinan) is worth the $$$, on a stand alone basis??:)
 

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Agreed and thank you for the first hand information.

To all: Off topic comments and non factual posts will not be accepted in this thread.

Thanks for the update. We are all interested in spending money on products that provide real world gains and can be verified. The more evidence that can be provided to support the value of these products the better.

As a board community we try to assist each other in proving out various products. Collectively we can gather a lot of information and help fellow members to buy the best mods.

To the extent that you maintain a presense on the board to answer questions it will be very helpful. Welcome to the board and keep the posts coming.
 

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Pardon my dumb question, but I only have a 3rd grade mentality; so please bear with me.

Dinan's claim for TB mod is 13 "maximum" crank HP and 8 "maximum" tq gains; all at 8100 rpm (this would be in 5th gear, per their own testing. I'm not sure what speed you'd be going in 5th gear, @ 8100 rpm).

'Cost is $3k + 11 hours labor for install; or about $4100 (if your shop's labor rate is $100 per hour). Stage II software is "recommended for optimum performance and drivability"; but not required. 'Not sure what their recommendation means, 'cause BMW's ECU adjustment range should be able to easily adjust for this "air in" mod, given TB small % engine output increase.

But, for the sake of my question, let's say you want to follow Dinan's recommendation and buy the software, too. That's an additional $1100 + $50 for 1/2 hour labor. So, total $$$ (not including sales tax) would be ~$5250.

Now let's say your friendly, local Dinan dealer offers a 10% (parts and labor) BMWCCA member discount. So, all in, your cost would be $4725 + sales tax on parts.

Question: Assuming the stated gains (max - 13 crank hp + 8 max tq; @ very high rpms and 5th gear speeds) are actually proven to be valid, would you buy the mod @ the above price?? And remember, as M5Ranger has stated (and he's correct), gains from various mods are NOT sequentially additive; they all kick in, drop off, and/or produce different results along the power curve; depending on the mod mix and software tune that drives them. So, when answering my question, you can't assume a TB mod is going to be 100% additive to whatever other mods are on the car.

I'd like to know who thinks this mod (with independantly verified performance as stated by Dinan) is worth the $$$, on a stand alone basis??:)

Good question for the folks at Dinan.. I would take my throttle bodies out and send them back if they would let me.. They have shown me nothing - notta - no gain - "0" - zilch... In my mind and experience - not a good mod to do - back to the drawing board with them.....

My question to Dinan is "where are your claims" no one has successfully reproduced any of your claims on the M5 E60... Just a very simple question....

BTW... Nice step forward in reproducing installation material - wish it were available sooner for the folks who lost half their hair..:hihi: :applause::applause::applause: I seriously applaud your efforts there... Now next step is show us where the REAL world gains are?? :M5launch:
 

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Pardon my dumb question, but I only have a 3rd grade mentality; so please bear with me.
Don't be so hard on yourself..... :hihi::cheers:
 

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A reminder to keep the posts factual and in eveyone in checlk :)

The better the questions are formulated the better answers you will get!
 

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Gentlemen I've held from any respond because most of you feel that I am a joke and an amusing guy(as DRM tells me).

Steve Breen your efforts to defend your employer are admireable. Again as per Dinan line it is always someone elses fault. Fine I will accept this from you but as someone has said, what about those "done right" that still DO NOT show any power gains?
Where were you in July of '07. My TB's came in a box with NOTHING else in there. I mean nothing!!!!

DRM your question is long and convoluted but if I can sort through it, you maybe saying this. Why spend the money if the gains are stated to be so meager. Maybe I'm wrong.
I do know that I did drink the coolaide back in July '07. I believed Dinan would make a good product and there should be no reasons why they would not work.
Well I was seriously wrong. The TB's are useless and I was dooped.
I should have accepted that a 13 crank hp gain really does mean ZERO rwhp gain.

Steve Breen the TB's are worthless and Steve Dinan the way your company dealt with me was unacceptable. Your companies comments, remarks towards my shop and me were insulting and greedy.

I do not give a damn the TB's make no power any more but I can not get over or accept Dinan's behavior and responses to me.

Somebody wants details just PM me.

All works out in some way. I discovered ASR Engineering back in those days and since then my M5 has been a savage beast. Scarry because back then I was so enraged that I was moments from dumping the car.
 

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Well I was seriously wrong. The TB's are useless and I was dooped.
I should have accepted that a 13 crank hp gain really does mean ZERO rwhp gain.
I think one way for Dinan to address this is to do pre and post-TB dynos with their dynamometer on M5's having their work done at Morgan Hills or in the vicinity (preferably on M5's owned by M5board.com members). I think some would actually pay to see these results. :applause:


Edit: The pre-TB dynos would have to be done on cars with the charcoal filters already removed to eliminate this as a factor.
 
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