BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 187 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,394 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello Everyone,

I had the Dinan software installed this morning in my 2006 M5. I immediately took the car to the dyno for a pull. Here is my feedback:

1. Shifting seems smoother
2. Initial off-the-line take off is smoother
3. Going past 8250 rpm is possible, but the power seems to drop noticably in my opinion
4. Dyno'd at 419.5 rwhp

Before I get too disappointed in the dyno pull let me give some environmental conditions:

1. Baseline (before Dinan) shows 433.3 rwhp at 90.2 degrees F
2. Post Dinan dyno shows 419.5 rwhp at 108 degrees F

The SA said the ecu "history" is wiped clean and the ecu will need to re-adapt to the driver based on how I run the car. I'm not sure if that could have anything to do with the results though.

Could the 20 degrees hotter temperature affect the rwhp by 14 rwhp? Could anyone chime in and provide some feedback?

I already had the charcoal filters removed before the Dinan upgrade when I got 433.3 rwhp in an earlier dyno.

So far, I'm a little disappointed in the results.

Feedback welcome from everyone.

Thank you,

Darren
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
Hello Everyone,

I had the Dinan software installed this morning in my 2006 M5. I immediately took the car to the dyno for a pull. Here is my feedback:

1. Shifting seems smoother
2. Initial off-the-line take off is smoother
3. Going past 8250 rpm is possible, but the power seems to drop noticably in my opinion
4. Dyno'd at 419.5 rwhp

Before I get too disappointed in the dyno pull let me give some environmental conditions:

1. Baseline (before Dinan) shows 433.3 rwhp at 90.2 degrees F
2. Post Dinan dyno shows 419.5 rwhp at 108 degrees F

The SA said the ecu "history" is wiped clean and the ecu will need to re-adapt to the driver based on how I run the car. I'm not sure if that could have anything to do with the results though.

Could the 20 degrees hotter temperature affect the rwhp by 14 rwhp? Could anyone chime in and provide some feedback?

I already had the charcoal filters removed before the Dinan upgrade when I got 433.3 rwhp in an earlier dyno.

So far, I'm a little disappointed in the results.

Feedback welcome from everyone.

Thank you,

Darren
They did not give you an SAE correction factor? This factor takes such things as temperature and baremetric pressure into consideration. For example, I dyno'd my car a few days ago and it was 100.2 degrees in the room with a baremetric pressure of 30ish. My SAE correction factor was 1.04. Obviously by having this number I can compare my next dyno run even if the conditions are not exactly the same.

That being said, I think it is possible to lose that amount of hp with an extra 20 degrees.


Cheers ///
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
adaptation from your driving habbit should not affect your dyno output since it's dyno-ed at WOT, and WOT no matter how you do it, is the same. The 20 degrees can definitely affect output by 14rwhp. What's more important now is to see the torque/hp curve of your dyno chart to see if there are gains throughout the band. It would be interesting to see the overlap of the before and after to see if the torque band was altered as claimed by Dinan.

The peak really doesn't tell much other than it was hotter the 2nd time around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,394 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Kevin,

Thanks for the feedback. Dinan is claiming 15 hp and 15 lb-ft of trq improvement. Assuming 10 of each make it to the wheels I was still hoping to see roughly 440 rwhp (just 7 rwhp more than my prior pull).

This means it's almost a 20 rwhp delta considering it should be a little higher regardless (or it could mean that my numbers would be a little lower without the ecu upgrade...maybe 412 rhwp).

When I pulled out of the dealer it did feel more sluggish though.

The air-to-fuel is worse than my stock ecu setup before the Dinana upgrade.

My pre-Dinan dyno pull showed a 12.9:1 A/F mixture. The new post-Dinan dyno shows a 12.5:1 A/F mixture. This would in essence reduce hp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
532 Posts
Dinan is claiming 15 hp and 15 lb-ft of trq improvement. Assuming 10 of each make it to the wheels I was still hoping to see roughly 440 rwhp (just 7 rwhp more than my prior pull).
I heard (for right or wrong) that the majority of the power from the upgrade came from the removal of the charcoal filters and didn't you have those removed already?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,394 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Dukecat,

I already had those removed (thought I put that in my original post, but I might have forgotten to note that).

I called and spoke with Phillip at Dinan on Friday and he assured me I would see a gain even in lieu of the fact I already removed the charcoal filters.

I believe everyone is speculating the majority of the gain is from the filter removal, yet no body has said who "they" are... I think all of us on this board speculated, but we could say the same about Active's ecu tune, but other people who have installed Active's tune says it pulls harder than before the tune.

I can tell you my car does not pull harder and it is verified by the dyno this morning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
532 Posts
I believe everyone is speculating the majority of the gain is from the filter removal, yet no body has said who "they" are... I think all of us on this board speculated, but we could say the same about Active's ecu tune, but other people who have installed Active's tune says it pulls harder than before the tune.
"They" for me was a Dinan rep. That together with previous dyno results showing the charcoal filter removal could account for 10+ hp by itself (long before this software came out) is, I think, where the speculation is coming from. But who knows?

Sorry to hear your results of the software upgrade are not what you expected.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,967 Posts
Are we setting a high expectation on aftermarket ECU? I think most of the hp gain are from removal CF, and the ECU not more than just delimit and smooth out throttle response. On your case, temperature is the big suspect. I took my car out in the desert last weekend, and once temp gauge about 3/4 on the hot side, the car definitely less responsive and feel weaker. I think you should try to re-dyno with same range in temperature with your baseline (~90F).

At least your car is delimited,
:goldcup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,394 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
"They" for me was a Dinan rep. That together with previous dyno results showing the charcoal filter removal could account for 10+ hp by itself (long before this software came out) is, I think, where the speculation is coming from. But who knows?

Sorry to hear your results of the software upgrade are not what you expected.
Interesting...a Dinan rep (Phillip) told me the exact opposite (otherwise I would not of purchased the upgrade).

On another note though, the car runs richer now (12.5:1) which is why I believe I've lost horsepower.

If they are truly reliant upon charcoal filter removal to provide the gain then they should just list that on their web site.

I really don't care about a delimited car, I have no desire to drive anywhere near 200 mph.

Cheers,

Darren
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,394 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Are we setting a high expectation on aftermarket ECU? I think most of the hp gain are from removal CF, and the ECU not more than just delimit and smooth out throttle response. On your case, temperature is the big suspect. I took my car out in the desert last weekend, and once temp gauge about 3/4 on the hot side, the car definitely less responsive and feel weaker. I think you should try to re-dyno with same range in temperature with your baseline (~90F).

At least your car is delimited,
:goldcup:

Keang,

I don't consider 5-7 rwhp improvement a high expectation considering the web site claims a 15 hp (at the crank) improvement. In fact, I think I'm being generous expecting only 5+ rwhp.

I've already left a message for Dinan and look forward to speaking with them on Monday. I'm hoping for a simple solution, otherwise I'll need to remove the ecu upgrade and I would prefer the stock stepup since the performance was better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,394 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
after hearing this, im definately going with rd sport ecu tune(when i do it)....maybe u should check into it darren
Good idea. I am going to give them an opportunity to respond and offer suggestions. Based on the results next week I will decide if I'm going to another tuner or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
930 Posts
Hmmm, this may call for a new installment of the DFW Challange...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,327 Posts
Subscribing to hopefully hear more updates from Darren...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,886 Posts
Given that anyone who purchases an aftermarket ECU will have already removed the charcoal filters, I find it puzzling that Dinan does not report the HP gains from the chip alone.

I have to agree with Darren in saying that if you buy the chip, you should know what improvement to expect from that product. If the gains are all due to the charcoal filter removal, then anyone who buys this chip is being seriously misled. If there are true gains from the chip alone, then Dinan should make this information available.

I've waited over 9 months for this chip to become available, and I'll say the same thing to Dinan I've said to Active Autowerke and the other chip manufacturers - post your data. Kudos to Active Autowerke for doing this, and I hope Dinan will follow suit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,394 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Hmmm, this may call for a new installment of the DFW Challange...
Ron,

You're killing me my friend :biggrin:. I see how you are, when I'm like a hurt gazelle you come in for the quick kill.

I'm not down and out yet, I'm ready to shell out some coin for the right tune (as I did with Dinan). I really want them to come out with flying colors so I'm going to give them time to respond.

Regards,

Darren
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,394 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Given that anyone who purchases an aftermarket ECU will have already removed the charcoal filters, I find it puzzling that Dinan does not report the HP gains from the chip alone.

I have to agree with Darren in saying that if you buy the chip, you should know what improvement to expect from that product. If the gains are all due to the charcoal filter removal, then anyone who buys this chip is being seriously misled. If there are true gains from the chip alone, then Dinan should make this information available.

I've waited over 9 months for this chip to become available, and I'll say the same thing to Dinan I've said to Active Autowerke and the other chip manufacturers - post your data. Kudos to Active Autowerke for doing this, and I hope Dinan will follow suit.
Thanks Wolverine. I've been holding out for Dinan due to the local flash capability. My expectation this entire time was to not expect any more than 10 rwhp from any tuner on this naturally aspirated S85 engine. At this point AA is looking pretty good to me and I sort of feel like an idiot since I broke my own mod belief system and bought the ecu tune without a dyno sheet to back it up.

Interestingly, when the SA spoke to me during our wrap up session he mentioned that he told the BMW tech (who did the flash) to enable the option for Dinan's free flow exhaust in the ecu flash update since I am running the Eisenmann Race exhaust. Sounds like there may be at least one option to tweak. Also, I believe Dinan built the tune for 91 octane. I run 93 octane in TX and I wonder if that is hurting me.

It's good to know I'm the only one who thinks like this about this stuff. I think Dinan will come back with some recommendations...I just can't believe they would publish an ecu tune without *any* gain over charcoal filters.

Also, I'm going back to the dyno shop Tuesday morning for an early morning pull when it's cooler.

Regards,

Darren
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
847 Posts
darren thanks for the heads-up and keep us posted, i also waited about 1year for this from Dinan, this news sucks big time, but its nice to know. Thanks for the efort.:cheers:
 
1 - 20 of 187 Posts
Top