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Discussion Starter #1
I'm having the Dinan software & Stage 2 suspension upgrade installed tomorrow. I did not see any active threads on these items, so thought I'd start one.

According to Dinan, "the combination of Dinan's re-calibration of ignition timing and air/fuel ratios, along with a simple modification to the stock air filter elements, produces a maximum gain of 15 hp @ 8100 rpm and 15 lb-ft torque @ just 3000 rpm."

My S.A. confirmed the upgrade includes their removing the carbon filters, which are installed in U.S. models to simply keep fuel vapors from exiting back up through the intake when the engine is not running.

Wish Dinan would post power increase figures w/o the filter removal.

I'm also having the BMW software upgraded, the Dinan software will piggy back on top. The price includes free reinstalls whenever the BMW software is reloaded.

Dinan also states "the software also removes the top speed governor, enabling the cars to attain their "natural" top speed; and the V-10s WILL pull right to red-line in top gear!"
I find this claim suspect as BMW must have at least one additional top speed limiter, as the unlimited speed is said to be ~205 mph and no tires are currently sold that will safely support a car of this weight at speeds over 200 mph.

Also having the Stage 2 suspension installed. Those reading this who have had this upgrade, is there any particular rear antiroll bar settings I should ask them to adjust?

Decided to hold off on the high flow throttle bodies. At the D/FW meet last weekend there was conversation about the stock throttle bodies being drilled out for significantly less than Dinan charges.
 

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Decided to hold off on the high flow throttle bodies. At the D/FW meet last weekend there was conversation about the stock throttle bodies being drilled out for significantly less than Dinan charges.

Three things I see that could create a problem in this area.

1) If you are going to send them to a shop to bore out you will have to send in your stock t-bodies and your car will down for a few days. Since it is not a Dinan part the dealer will not remove them so you have to find a shop to remove/install and hope they have room for your car to sit.

2) You will also need larger throttle blades to fill the bigger holes. Is this same person going to machine brand new aluminum blades?

3) Does this person have expierence modifing multiple t-bodies sets that go on one motor? They all have to be identical for the proper air-flow no room for variance.

Just a couple of things that came to mind.
 

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Dinan also states "the software also removes the top speed governor, enabling the cars to attain their "natural" top speed; and the V-10s WILL pull right to red-line in top gear!" I find this claim suspect as BMW must have at least one additional top speed limiter, as the unlimited speed is said to be ~205 mph and no tires are currently sold that will safely support a car of this weight at speeds over 200 mph.
Ask Russ about this one :biggrinbounce:
 

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Also having the Stage 2 suspension installed. Those reading this who have had this upgrade, is there any particular rear antiroll bar settings I should ask them to adjust?
There are several threads discussing both the SW and Stage 2 suspension in great detail. "Search" is your friend :M5thumbs:

That being said, if I remember correctly, there are 3 possible "settings" for the rear sway bar however Dinan recommends using the middle hole when the sway bar is used in combination with their springs. That is how I installed it and it works quite nicely. However I have only used the car for spirited street driving since installing the Stage 2 package. Here is the Dinan install guide that comes with the rear sway bar;

View attachment INS133-0490 M5 …ear Swaybar.pdf

I believe MRichmond has logged some miles at VIR with the Stage 2. He might have something to add regarding the rear sway bar setting on his car.
 

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I believe MRichmond has logged some miles at VIR with the Stage 2. He might have something to add regarding the rear sway bar setting on his car.
Yes, many miles. My bar is still set in the middle hole. On the agenda is experimenting with the other settings now that I have the track tire issue somewhat solved, but I have not gotten to that yet. You can't go wrong having it set per Dinan's recommendation at least initially.
 

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Dinan also states "the software also removes the top speed governor, enabling the cars to attain their "natural" top speed; and the V-10s WILL pull right to red-line in top gear!"
I find this claim suspect as BMW must have at least one additional top speed limiter, as the unlimited speed is said to be ~205 mph and no tires are currently sold that will safely support a car of this weight at speeds over 200 mph.
To the contrary, there are plenty of videos around showing this to be true (not Dinan software specifically, but any derestricted car).

And while one might argue that driving any street car at 205 mph is probably not safe, there are plenty of tires rated for "in excess of 186 mph (300 km/h)," indicated by a "ZR (99Y)" rating on the tire.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=35

Also interesting that the PS2s in "Ferrari spec" have a 99Y rating but the PS2s in "BMW spec" do not. The Ferrari version is also cheaper!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?width=285/&ratio=35&diameter=19&startIndex=0&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&x=19&y=20&performance=EP&performance=MP&performance=UHP&RunFlat=All
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Three things I see that could create a problem in this area.

1) If you are going to send them to a shop to bore out you will have to send in your stock t-bodies and your car will down for a few days. Since it is not a Dinan part the dealer will not remove them so you have to find a shop to remove/install and hope they have room for your car to sit.

2) You will also need larger throttle blades to fill the bigger holes. Is this same person going to machine brand new aluminum blades?

3) Does this person have expierence modifing multiple t-bodies sets that go on one motor? They all have to be identical for the proper air-flow no room for variance.

Just a couple of things that came to mind.
I attended the D/FW Gustav Tour meet-and-greet, http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=99471 , the topic was discussed there.

Going from memory, the engine gurus present suggested the task would not be a big job for a professional machine shop and the cost significantly less than what Dinan charges for the parts.

Of course the technical ability of the machinist doing the work would be paramount and the vehicle would be out of commission during the process.

I'm not contemplating having it done either way in the immediate future, my inquiry is to determine if anyone on the board has had this done, and if so, what were the results.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There are several threads discussing both the SW and Stage 2 suspension in great detail. "Search" is your friend :M5thumbs:

That being said, if I remember correctly, there are 3 possible "settings" for the rear sway bar however Dinan recommends using the middle hole when the sway bar is used in combination with their springs. That is how I installed it and it works quite nicely. However I have only used the car for spirited street driving since installing the Stage 2 package. Here is the Dinan install guide that comes with the rear sway bar;

View attachment 45936

I believe MRichmond has logged some miles at VIR with the Stage 2. He might have something to add regarding the rear sway bar setting on his car.
Hey good buddy, I did search and found many old threads, nothing recent of interest.

I do appreciate the Dinan installation guide.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yes, many miles. My bar is still set in the middle hole. On the agenda is experimenting with the other settings now that I have the track tire issue somewhat solved, but I have not gotten to that yet. You can't go wrong having it set per Dinan's recommendation at least initially.
Did you have a dealership install the package, and if so, did they choose the middle hole setting? I'm trying to gather info before telling my dealership how to do their job.

How did the setup change your M's handling? The handling of mine is neutral, only when pushed hard on a track does understeer make itself known.

When you say you have the track tire issue somewhat solved, are you referring to the 265mm Sport Cups on all corners? I'm still looking into having custom 9.5X19" and 10.5X19" custom wheels made, and going with a staggered 285mm and 305/315mm setup.

My S.A. told me they had installed the rear 285-35X19s on the front without clearance issues although I've also read board threads saying there were clearance issues. Guess I'll have to buy the wheels and test fit.
 

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Did you have a dealership install the package, and if so, did they choose the middle hole setting? I'm trying to gather info before telling my dealership how to do their job.

.

Not necessary, the suspension comes with instructions that tells them what setting to use.

What dealer are you using?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
To the contrary, there are plenty of videos around showing this to be true (not Dinan software specifically, but any derestricted car).

And while one might argue that driving any street car at 205 mph is probably not safe, there are plenty of tires rated for "in excess of 186 mph (300 km/h)," indicated by a "ZR (99Y)" rating on the tire.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=35

Also interesting that the PS2s in "Ferrari spec" have a 99Y rating but the PS2s in "BMW spec" do not. The Ferrari version is also cheaper!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?width=285/&ratio=35&diameter=19&startIndex=0&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&x=19&y=20&performance=EP&performance=MP&performance=UHP&RunFlat=All
My understanding of ZR rated tires is different than yours. Looking at the first Tirerack link you provide, Y rated tires, with a (30 minute) guarantee of 186 mph without failure is the highest general rating. The Z-speed rating only signifies a maximum speed capability in excess of 149 mph.

Manufacturers usually contract with tire companies to build custom-spec ZR tires and the max speed varies by contract tire size and application.

For example, Bugatti had Michelin develop a special PAX run flat tire system for their Veyron, which at 4,160lbs is not much heavier than our Ms. If the Veyron tires would fit our Ms, I'm speculating we could drive up to the >251 max for those specific tires. Chevrolet, Ferrari and other manufacturers of vehicles that can top the 200 mph mark, have all contracted for tires that will last 30 minutes at the vehicle's top speed.

I read that for our M5s, BMW contracted with one of the tire manufacturers for special test tires that would be safe for the >200 mph speed tests. There have been several short paragraphs in the last 12 issues of Roundel on this subject. Have you seen anything in writing that states what the OE Continental's or Michelin's top speed is?

My speculation about the multiple top speed limiters comes from a late 90's C&D article, cover read Bad *** Benz, on a E-Class MB that was modified by a Florida tuner, by first stuffing the largest V-12 made, modifying the suspension and other systems and trying to run >200 mph. On the track, they kept running into different limiters, first fuel pump and finally one inside the Bosch engine computer. On paper the car should have run ~210, they couldn't get it over ~197 (I'll have to dig that old issue out.)

Perhaps BMW only has one top speed limiting section of code that Dinan and the other tuners bypass. From a liability standpoint, if I were BMW I would have added several to make sure someone didn't do something stupid and then sue them. Unfortunately the legal climate, at least in the U.S., mandates it.

Finally, IMO, it isn't safe to drive on a public road at speeds >200 mph, unless in a sanctioned event, where engineers have examined the road and found it generally safe. There have been horrific crashes in some of the unlimited speed races in the western U.S., by vehicles designed to operate at that speed, but wind got underneath them and they became airborne. I'd prefer a high speed oval at a track.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Not necessary, the suspension comes with instructions that tells them what setting to use.

What dealer are you using?
Classic in Dallas.
 

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Did you have a dealership install the package, and if so, did they choose the middle hole setting? I'm trying to gather info before telling my dealership how to do their job.

How did the setup change your M's handling? The handling of mine is neutral, only when pushed hard on a track does understeer make itself known.

When you say you have the track tire issue somewhat solved, are you referring to the 265mm Sport Cups on all corners? I'm still looking into having custom 9.5X19" and 10.5X19" custom wheels made, and going with a staggered 285mm and 305/315mm setup.

My S.A. told me they had installed the rear 285-35X19s on the front without clearance issues although I've also read board threads saying there were clearance issues. Guess I'll have to buy the wheels and test fit.
Yes, the dealership installed the suspension and used Dinan's suggested figures. I since have modified the camber and toe settings somewhat.

Whether 9.5" wheels will create clearance issues on the front will depend on the wheel and the offset. The stock 9.5" wheel does not fit without spacers. I wonder whether your SA was talking about 285 rubber on a 8.5" wheel. Definitely do let us know how your wheels work out.
 

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Well this is a timely topic to throw in my two cents. I got Dinan to sell me just the sway bar kit (roll-control kit and rear swaybar) after some schmoozing with the guy on the phone (Dinan's official stance is to not sell the ARC/sway bar separate from the springs). Just got them installed this evening and had a few spirited turns and some short low-speed slalom fun. This car is FLAT. Slalom traction is almost stupid tight. I have the 275 and 305 wide tires, which slightly increased understeer, getting close to neutral after some custom alignment settings. These changes just improved the overall traction with these tires. Turning corners under light throttle appears to be much more locked in, whereas before there was too much understeer. The car seems to power out of corners faster, not kicking in DSC as much in MDM mode on some of the corners where I typically get the system kicking in when I try. I'll have more impressions tomorrow, but so far the system is working as expected - wonderfully!

Next step - pulley kit tomorrow!
 

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I'm surprised you had to schmooze the sales guy to only sell you those pieces. I got them without any problems a month or so ago to go with my RDSport springs and I know there are several other members here who only got the FRC and rear sway bar.

Anyway, I agree that handling is great now after the installation. I also have the CF strut braces front and rear so my car is extremely tight around bends. Taking those smooth freeway interchange ramps is an intoxicating feeling.
 

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With regards to the top speed limiter removal, I'm confused by different claims from different tuners. Dinan says the limiter is removed so the car can reach it's natural top speed. I've seen different numbers but wonder what the real speed is.

On the other hand, RDSport says they only raise the limiter to 200mph and does not remove them because of TUV regulations with regards to tires not available to safely carry higher speeds than that.

I've also heard that you can't technically "remove" the speed limiter but you can raise it.
 

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With regards to the top speed limiter removal, I'm confused by different claims from different tuners. Dinan says the limiter is removed so the car can reach it's natural top speed. I've seen different numbers but wonder what the real speed is.

On the other hand, RDSport says they only raise the limiter to 200mph and does not remove them because of TUV regulations with regards to tires not available to safely carry higher speeds than that.

I've also heard that you can't technically "remove" the speed limiter but you can raise it.

Dinan's software removes it completely. Gone:byebye:. Redline in top gear.

Regarding how safe it would be, that is at your own risk if you choose to drive 200+ for a lengthy period of time. The tires will probably not hold up too well BUT for short sprints to 200+ and back down the tires will do just fine.
 

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I'm surprised you had to schmooze the sales guy to only sell you those pieces. I got them without any problems a month or so ago to go with my RDSport springs and I know there are several other members here who only got the FRC and rear sway bar.

Anyway, I agree that handling is great now after the installation. I also have the CF strut braces front and rear so my car is extremely tight around bends. Taking those smooth freeway interchange ramps is an intoxicating feeling.

Dinan was selling them separately for a bit, but probably just after you got yours they decided on a policy of not selling them separately. I encouraged him to speak with people about reconsidering that policy, and in turn perhaps raising the price a little and pushing up the benefits of just the FRC/sway kit would help move the product too for some extra profits for them. After some more time today, I can really feel the change and am very impressed at how flat the car stays in almost all turns, on/coasting/off the gas...just everything. And no noticeable change in comfort, although I might say that it's actually more comfortable now in turns as even in EDC Soft it rides pretty much flat in turns.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
More on the Veyron's tires & top speed. . .

Even the tires for the Veyron are unique. They're specially designed by Michelin to handle the stress of driving at 250 mph. The tires need to be sticky like a race car's and able to handle 1.3 G's on the skidpad. However, they also need to last longer than the 70 or so miles of a typical race tire.

Michelin therefore created completely new tires to handle the Veyron's unique requirements. In the rear, the tires are 14.4 inches (36.6 cm) wide. Specifically, the tires measure 245/690 R 520 A front and 365/710 R 540 A rear, where 245 and 365 are the width in millimeters (9.5 and 14.4 inches respectively). The rims are 520 mm and 540 mm in diameter (approximately 20 inches). These tires, in other words, are massive -- the rears are the widest ever produced for a passenger car.

In October, 2005, Car and Driver magazine's editor Csaba Csere test drove the final production version of the Veyron for the November 2005 issue. This test, at Volkswagen's Ehra-Lessien test track, reached a top speed of 407.5 km/h (251.2 mph). The top speed was verified once again by James May on Top Gear, again at Volkswagen's private test track, when the car hit 407.9 km/h.

When getting close to the top speed during the test he said that "the tires will only last for about fifteen minutes, but it's OK because the fuel runs out in twelve."

He also gave an indication of the power requirements, at 249 km/h (155 mph) the Veyron was using approximately 270 BHP (201 kW), but to get to its rated 407 km/h (253 mph) top speed required far more from the engine. The power required to overcome aerodynamic friction is proportional to the cube of the speed. Therefore, to go twice the speed, you need eight times the power.
 
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