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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, just for the heck of it, I called Eric Bateman at Dinan to inquire about the S3 package for the E39 M5.

Basically, from a stock M5, the cost would be $60,000 - $65,000 :eek:

Here is the kicker: this modification will VOID the standard warranty, Dinan will only warranty their products for 12,000 miles/12 months, and it currently is smog certified in 49 of the 50 states (they are waiting on California, but don't think it will be a problem). They are currently taking deposits and the next available appointment would be late summer. The work must be completed at the Morgan Hill, CA facility. They have completed 1 E39 and are currently working on 2 other E39s.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Peak Horsepower:</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2></TD><TD vAlign=top>621 @ 7000 rpm</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Peak Horsepower Gain:</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2></TD><TD vAlign=top>230 @ 7000 rpm</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Peak Torque:</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2></TD><TD vAlign=top>502 lb/ft @ 5500 rpm</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Peak Torque Gain:</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2></TD><TD vAlign=top>173 lb/ft @ 7000 pm</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

S3 Engine


Intercooled Supercharger System
S3 Engine Management
High Flow-Ram Air Intake
High Flow Throttle Bodies and Tuned Velocity Stacks
4 to 2 to 1 Stainless Steel Headers
Free Flow Exhaust

Peak Horsepower: 621 @ 7000 rpm
Peak Torque: 502 lb/ft @ 4500 rpm

Top Speed (6th gear @ 7300 rpm with Dinan wheel and tire package):
3.15 Final Drive: 209 mph
3.45 Final Drive: 191 mph


Optional Performance Intake and Exhaust Cam Shafts
High performance cam shafts and matching engine management software are available at additional cost, increasing peak output to 638 horsepower at 7000 rpm.

Chassis and Suspension


Front and Rear Shock Tower Braces
Stage 3 Suspension System, Including:
Performance Springs
Koni Rebound Adjustable Shocks and Struts
(Dinan/JRZ Racing Type Shocks optional, at additional cost)
17mm Adjustable Rear Anti-Roll Bar
28mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
Front Camber Plates
Rear Subframe Reinforcement
Dinan Performance Brakes by Brembo
355 x 32mm Front / 345 x 28mm Rear Slotted Rotors
4 Piston-Cast Aluminum Calipers with Dinan-Spec Pads
Goodridge Stainless Steel Brake Lines
Lightweight Forged Performance Wheels
Front: 18 x 9” (17.5 lbs.); 275/35-18 Tires (Sold Separately)
Rear: 18 x 9.5” (18 lbs.); 285/35-18 Tires (Sold Separately)


Driveline


S3-M5 High Performance Clutch Package (including Flywheel, Disc/Pressure Plate and Slave Cylinder).
3.45 Limited Slip Differential


Accessories


Serial Numbered S3-M5 Factory Works Plaque
Dinan Deck Lid Badge
Dinan Signature Floor Mats


Warranty


12 Months/12,000 Miles (whichever occurs first).

For more information, please contact Eric Bateman at 408-779-8584, extension 105.


You can find more information here:

http://dinancars.com/Series.asp?Series=15&Chassis=13&Model=57#1342
 

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Sounds like it will be a quality product, but JMHO, for that kind of money you could get a one of at D/A or option two, yet to be seen may the AA kit for substantially cheaper, I like it but man, thats a ton of money, Josh
 

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Discussion Starter #4
bmwusa said:
Sounds like it will be a quality product, but JMHO, for that kind of money you could get a one of at D/A or option two, yet to be seen may the AA kit for substantially cheaper, I like it but man, thats a ton of money, Josh
Yeah, I know, my mouth went wide open when he told me! :eek:h:

He said the greatest thing about this mod is that it retains the stock feel of the car - UNTIL YOU PRESS ON THE ACCELERATOR! :7:
 

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I think for that amount of money I would rather have another M5 parked next to mine - one for now, one for later!

However, in a few years, when the warranty is already gone...who knows?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
KevinM said:
I think for that amount of money I would rather have another M5 parked next to mine - one for now, one for later!

However, in a few years, when the warranty is already gone...who knows?
You could always do what they did to a Cadillac DTS - you could mount the second engine it the trunk! They had a button in the dash to start the second engine and I think they got 600HP!

ouich
 

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For that kind of money they better completely redo the engine internals!! Not just some velocity stacks, software and a supercharger.
 

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Steve gave me a QUICK ride in the car a couple months ago (i'm pretty sure it had the cam as well). 0-165 is VERY quick and pulls strongly in 5th and 6th - top speed is rev-limited with the stock rear end (the 3.45 is kind of silly in this car). Had almost finished the fuel mapping and just started testing the clutch -- were going to do some desert testing, but didn't think overheating would be a problem as there's just no reason to run this car at high revs except when accelerating (and that doesn't take very long).

Steve has been running R tires on the car which are i think are necaessary with this power. From my personal suspension experience i don't think the Dinan suspension uses stiff enough springs to deal with this level of performance.

There really aren't many places where you can use this much power.
 

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stever said:
Steve gave me a QUICK ride in the car a couple months ago (i'm pretty sure it had the cam as well). 0-165 is VERY quick and pulls strongly in 5th and 6th - top speed is rev-limited with the stock rear end (the 3.45 is kind of silly in this car). Had almost finished the fuel mapping and just started testing the clutch -- were going to do some desert testing, but didn't think overheating would be a problem as there's just no reason to run this car at high revs except when accelerating (and that doesn't take very long).

Steve has been running R tires on the car which are i think are necaessary with this power. From my personal suspension experience i don't think the Dinan suspension uses stiff enough springs to deal with this level of performance.

There really aren't many places where you can use this much power.
Dont get me wrong, there is such a thing as excess or too much, but I have driven Robs car "S/Ckelleners M5" and it was streetable and the extra power just added to the driving experience, it was an absolute blast, and as soon as its tweaked, I think Rob plans on using it as his daily driver, So I agree with 99% of what you said but I dont think 600 Hp is overkill or too much on a 4000 lb car, it just transforms an excellent car into a super car, Josh
 

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Stever, I asked jason the other day what the + sign next to his name meant and he didnt know, you also have on next to your name, what does it mean? Josh
 

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To me the 3.45 is a waste for a stock M5. It does not make a stock M5 faster and it certainly would make the S3 slower. The point is, if you mod the M5 and produce more power within the same rev band, the 3.45 will be a greater liability the more and more power that is produced. It is also interesting to note that no one ever mentions that increasing the rear diff. ratio can result in worse performance just as lowering the ratio can result in worse performance. The trick is finding the optimum for what you want to do and head in that direction.

The rear axle ratio mod is valid in many applications but not all. This mentality comes from the muscle car era where cars were geared too high (very low ratio) and putting in a 4.11 worked. My '87 Z28 came with a 3.08 and had a 5.0 liter V-8 making 215 h.p. I put a 3.71 in this tuned-port car that made peak power at 5000 or so and it was clearly slower. The common wisdom was wrong. I ended up with a Richmond gear 3.26 ratio and that was an improvement. Many, many times the common wisdom is wrong. The same holds true for lightened flywheels in heavy cars. The whole thing is really irritating and this fallacious common wisdom or whatever sometimes creeps onto this board. However, this board is less prone to it than most boards.

For example, if lowering the gear gives more torque at the wheels, let's put in a 9.00 to 1 ratio. Why isn't a bulldozer reduction ratio faster or quicker? Think about it. Next time someone talks about changing the rear diff. ratio, consider it critically. Expect that it may very well result in a slower car, quickly thrashing through its power band, generating unusable torque, making lots of noise, and accelerating very slowly. Just like a bulldozer.
 

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No one ever mentions lowering the rear diff. ratio to 3.45 results in worse performance because it doesn't. There have been many posts from members after doing the gears either from Dinan (previous groupbuy) or from Evosport.
Most with mods on the board would say it's one of the best bangs in performance just like headers are.
Ever riden in one with gears?
You do need better tires and susp., but those that would do gears would probably already have suspention and wheels ect..
I do agree that with a s/c you wouldn't really need the extra torque multiplication from lower gears.
 

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At least in standing start acceleration, I disagree. The fastest M5s on this board, those that break into the 12s, were all stock geared. I haven't seen one 3.45 geared M5 turn numbers at the drag strip in the 12s. That says a lot. A few 3.45-geared cars ran disappointing times, slower than before their 3.45 mod and were baffled. I look at the results here, and computer simulation data, and there isn't a strong argument for the 3.45. I would agree that the 3.45 would be stronger from a roll, and maybe that's what matters to you. However, I wouldn't want to give up something to gain somewhere else.

I drove 2 Dinan S2s with gears. It was hard to differentiate the effect of the gears when the car's powerband is skewed higher and it makes more h.p. up high where the gears are a good fit. I found myself shifting sooner.
 

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You are correct about putting too much gear in a car that does not have a high enough redline to take advantage of the gearing. In addition, the car's acceleraton benefits from the engine spending time in it's powerband to help utilize it's torque. If you put too low of a rear gear in a car, the engine goes thru it's powerband too quick and does not keep the car accelerating. You run out of gear. You can see it when you put a 4 wheel drive vehicle in low range and accelerate. It goes through the powerband too quick and stops pulling too early. In the right application, lower gears help acceleration.

John
 

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For street driving the M5 is probably one of the better cars to raise the diff on, as the torque band is so wide and flat, and the rev limit is high for a v8.. I'm sure its a little too much easier to spin the tires in first but i don't waste rubber anyhow, the quarter mile might have an extra shift but i don't run it.. What i do like is when i'm sitting at 3500 rpms and i suddenly punch it, the car leaps harder, and thats what i'm looking for these days. As for shifting sooner/too often, it is not noticeable in street driving/racing.

As for including it on the S3, i'm sure Steve Dinan has a better reason than simply throwing everything on the car he has to offer..
 

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Board memeber KSA told me that his friend's Nowacked M5 + 3.45 diff was only ahead of his nowack m5 (3.15 diff) till 250 km/h.. then KSA passed him. The way i see it is there must be a pay off and that is top speed. I guess the whole objective of the 3.45 was to make the beast to break in the 12's and couldnt imagine it being stronger accross the board.

p.s. i didnt see or can verify that an M5 with a 3.45 diff can break into the 12's. I just said it was probably designed to do that.
 

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SCORPIO said:
So, just for the heck of it, I called Eric Bateman at Dinan to inquire about the S3 package for the E39 M5.

Basically, from a stock M5, the cost would be $60,000 - $65,000 :eek:

Here is the kicker: this modification will VOID the standard warranty, Dinan will only warranty their products for 12,000 miles/12 months, and it currently is smog certified in 49 of the 50 states (they are waiting on California, but don't think it will be a problem). They are currently taking deposits and the next available appointment would be late summer. The work must be completed at the Morgan Hill, CA facility. They have completed 1 E39 and are currently working on 2 other E39s.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Peak Horsepower:</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2></TD><TD vAlign=top>621 @ 7000 rpm</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Peak Horsepower Gain:</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2></TD><TD vAlign=top>230 @ 7000 rpm</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Peak Torque:</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2></TD><TD vAlign=top>502 lb/ft @ 5500 rpm</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Peak Torque Gain:</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2></TD><TD vAlign=top>173 lb/ft @ 7000 pm</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

S3 Engine


Intercooled Supercharger System
S3 Engine Management
High Flow-Ram Air Intake
High Flow Throttle Bodies and Tuned Velocity Stacks
4 to 2 to 1 Stainless Steel Headers
Free Flow Exhaust

Peak Horsepower: 621 @ 7000 rpm
Peak Torque: 502 lb/ft @ 4500 rpm

Top Speed (6th gear @ 7300 rpm with Dinan wheel and tire package):
3.15 Final Drive: 209 mph
3.45 Final Drive: 191 mph


Optional Performance Intake and Exhaust Cam Shafts
High performance cam shafts and matching engine management software are available at additional cost, increasing peak output to 638 horsepower at 7000 rpm.

Chassis and Suspension


Front and Rear Shock Tower Braces
Stage 3 Suspension System, Including:
Performance Springs
Koni Rebound Adjustable Shocks and Struts
(Dinan/JRZ Racing Type Shocks optional, at additional cost)
17mm Adjustable Rear Anti-Roll Bar
28mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
Front Camber Plates
Rear Subframe Reinforcement
Dinan Performance Brakes by Brembo
355 x 32mm Front / 345 x 28mm Rear Slotted Rotors
4 Piston-Cast Aluminum Calipers with Dinan-Spec Pads
Goodridge Stainless Steel Brake Lines
Lightweight Forged Performance Wheels
Front: 18 x 9” (17.5 lbs.); 275/35-18 Tires (Sold Separately)
Rear: 18 x 9.5” (18 lbs.); 285/35-18 Tires (Sold Separately)


Driveline


S3-M5 High Performance Clutch Package (including Flywheel, Disc/Pressure Plate and Slave Cylinder).
3.45 Limited Slip Differential


Accessories


Serial Numbered S3-M5 Factory Works Plaque
Dinan Deck Lid Badge
Dinan Signature Floor Mats


Warranty


12 Months/12,000 Miles (whichever occurs first).

For more information, please contact Eric Bateman at 408-779-8584, extension 105.


You can find more information here:

http://dinancars.com/Series.asp?Series=15&Chassis=13&Model=57#1342
Seems like Everything is InSync with the current issue of Roundel on the
BIG RED Dinan S3 ! ! !
 
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