[MN01R6]

I am looking for a place to start diagnosing this problem - I have been throwing a CEL and here are the codes I get:


D1 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #5"
D2 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #6"
D3 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #7"
D4 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #8"
D5 "Misfire during warm-up, multiple cylinders"
71 "Intake camshaft VANOS position control, Cyl #5-8"

Read codes, reset and drove a while

D1 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #5"
D2 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #6"
D3 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #7"
D4 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #8"
D5 "Misfire during warm-up, multiple cylinders"
72 "Exhaust camshaft VANOS position control, Cyl #5-8"


Read codes, reset and drove a while

D1 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #5"
D2 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #6"
D3 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #7"
D4 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #8"
D5 "Misfire during warm-up, multiple cylinders"
71 "Intake camshaft VANOS position control, Cyl #5-8"

I am hoping this is either O-rings on the vanos or maybe the 2 CPS on bank 2. I really don't want to spend the $1,000+ on a new solenoid board.

Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Wurger]

Getting the solenoid board out is a pretty simple DIY, here are some pointers:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e3...42-diy-instructions-vanos-solenoid-valve.html

E39 M5 DIY Procedures - M3 Torque - The M Power Forums

I'd take the board out and check the resistance of the individual solenoids. They should read about 4 ohm each. Remove brown gauze filters, replace o-rings and reassemble. If problem still exists, you might want to swap the bank1 and 2 solenoids and see if the problem follows.

Good luck

 

[nerio02]

+1 i would remove the lid from the vanos on bank 2 and see iff there isn't a solder broken off on one off the valves first. iff everything is fine there, change o rings. and then iff it still gives codes, go for a new solenoid board..

these days the solenoids are so damn expensive that you should try everything else first before braking the wallet.



i had the same codes when my solder broke from a valve on the solenoid board.worth too check, its 5 min work on a cold engine.

 

[MN01R6]

Thanks for the tips. I am going to wait until the new o-rings get here from Dr. Vanos before I open up the cases. Solder I can handle. After reading a little more and emailing Chris at Dr. Vanos, a stuck open or closed solenoid is what I am afraid of. The beast is my daily driver and I don't want to have her out of commission while I send the board to Dr. Vanos to fix, but I also don't want to pay a grand for a new board.

From what you guys have said my best course is to inspect solder, replace o-rings and swap banks when reinstalling. If the trouble goes away, I am set. If the trouble stays on Bank 2, I hopefully get away with buying new intake and exhaust CPS for bank 2. If the trouble follows to bank 1....well, the trouble is going to follow to my bank account.

JR

 

[reds2]

Chris at Dr. Vanos told me it is typically one or two solenoids that fail. He replaced one of mine and it worked for awhile. It died again and I just bought a new board. This was before they jacked up the price.

 

[MN01R6]

I swapped banks on the solenoids last night and replaced the o-rings. Reset the codes and am still getting a code 71 "Intake camshaft VANOS position control, Cyl #5-8" so it isn't the solenoids themselves - is the next step replacing my intake CPS or is this something else?

JR

 

[Sailor24]

I swapped banks on the solenoids last night and replaced the o-rings. Reset the codes and am still getting a code 71 "Intake camshaft VANOS position control, Cyl #5-8" so it isn't the solenoids themselves - is the next step replacing my intake CPS or is this something else?

JR

Just from my limited experience with my car. It appears that the codes presented do not represent the problem always. My CPS problem was not a electrical failure but something in the magnetic field and the response of the pulse. The first one was a code at the time I purchased the car. Bench test proved it still had a pulse. The second one was intermittent code and when that one was tested it also still pulsed. This tells me they were sending bad info to the computer long before the computer through a code. After both intake cps were replaced I got some vanos codes but nothing strong. Because of many posts suggesting the original CPS were problematic I replaced my last two exhaust CPS. When I did this I got some sensible vanos codes I could understand and address.
I think that the 71 code is incomplete you should have another code to explain it. One of the f? codes or a cps or maybe the advance or ret*rd code for the solenoids. If your cps's are slow and you have slow solenoids they may prevent the computer from determining why you have the 71 which is just the computer knowing something is wrong but not knowing why without another code.

Because you also had a 72 my suggestion is you have four old CPS that are in need of replacement. I certainly did not believe the people that posted "replace all four just because". Now that I have done that, I am one of them. If you have original CPS replace them because your car will run better and without good CPS's your computer cannot determine what is wrong with your vanos if anything.

A couple of my solenoids had ify soldering but I had a couple that had crud in them. The way I got the crud out was to activate them with a 5v 500mah cell phone charger (phone plug cut off). I soaked them in kerosene (an old trick for hydraulic lifters) and then activated them first positive to positive but then I would switch the direction by going positive to negative to make sure they had full travel. All while submerged up to the hole in the side. I had to remove them from the board because the resistor that is in parallel to them limits the power to them. That resistor is really what you are reading if you do an ohm test. That is why I used 5volts instead of 12. They are fed 5 volts by the computer not 12. With 12 volts all the clicks are hard but with 5 some clicks are not as strong and those are the ones that need a further cleaning and 5 volt work out. By doing it this way I was assured that all the solder joints would be fresh also.

 

[gzig5]

I swapped banks on the solenoids last night and replaced the o-rings. Reset the codes and am still getting a code 71 "Intake camshaft VANOS position control, Cyl #5-8" so it isn't the solenoids themselves - is the next step replacing my intake CPS or is this something else?

JR

I'm surprised that the problem did not follow the solenoid board. Usually and in my experience you get a 08 code for the intake CPS and the 72 if it is the solenoid board for that bank. I've had both issues and written quite a bit about it as well as posted a schematic of the board. So a bad sensor gave a "sensor" fault and bad board gave "position control" fault. But, what do I know, maybe it is the sensor. I swapped sensors side to side to verify and when I had a bad sensor the fault followed it to that side of the engine. I then bought two intake CPS's. Not a bad thing to change if they are original and you have 100k on them. There are date codes printed on them to tell you when they were made.
Greg

 

[ard]

I've come to believe that the CPS sensors fail 'softly' and that as they degrade their magnetic pickup 'field' alters such that the timing they present to the DME can trip a VANOS error even if it isn't a vanos fault (ie what sailor24 said, and others before).

It sure is nice when CPS code=replace CPS and VANOS code=fix vanos...but that isnt always true it seems.

If you flopped the solenoid and the problem remains, just replace the CPSs. Do them one at a time or all at once. Its your time and money

A

 

[MN01R6]

Thanks for the advice all. Looking back, I think I have had mild "blatty exhaust" since I bought the car last summer. It only has 55k on it, but it is 11 years old and the full service records show no replacement of any CPS ever.

I think I am going to replace all 4 CPS - it is less than 1/2 the price I thought I was in for with a solenoid board and I am putting on a lot of miles every week now that my commute went from 4 miles to 35 miles each way. The E39 M5 has been my dream car since it came out, so I would like to have her in "like new" condition or as close as I can get to it

As an aside - the misfires during warm-up have gone away with the replacement of the solenoid o-rings. I don't know what that is about....

 

[vantaam5]

Your error code is the CPS....

 

[MN01R6]

Thanks Vantaa - do you have a personal opinion on the "replace 1" versus "replace all 4" cps sensors debate?

 

[vantaam5]

Thanks Vantaa - do you have a personal opinion on the "replace 1" versus "replace all 4" cps sensors debate?

These CPS go gradually worse.

Explanation in easy terms:

Basically each of these hall-sensors has an integrated signal emulator that the ECU "understands" the signal.These chips go gradually worse due to age,heat,...So it throws an error when the signal is out of range and the ECU does not accept it anymore.But until that stage,the ECU accepts a wide range of signals from the sensor.



I replace them all and be done.

Precise signal results in better performance.

 

[MN01R6]

I replaced all 4 last night. It was a 5-hour job with a friend helping. As others have noted, the biggest part of the job is taking everything off to get to the CPS, and then putting everything else back on when done. The CPS themselves are cake, but the two that are "protected" by the ignition wiring bracket are a huge pain.

I am glad I am done and hopefully won't need to do that again for a long time

 

[vantaam5]

Nice to hear you got it sorted...

 

[ard]

I replaced all 4 last night. It was a 5-hour job with a friend helping. As others have noted, the biggest part of the job is taking everything off to get to the CPS, and then putting everything else back on when done. The CPS themselves are cake, but the two that are "protected" by the ignition wiring bracket are a huge pain.

I am glad I am done and hopefully won't need to do that again for a long time

Such an unrewarding and frustrating task... Did you access from under or above, or both?

Codes all sorted now?

 

[MN01R6]

Such an unrewarding and frustrating task... Did you access from under or above, or both?

Codes all sorted now?

I went from both above and below, although 3 of the 4 only seemed remotely possible from above. The Driver's (Bank 2) exhaust being the one that was easier to get at from below. That might have something to do with the fact my car was on ramps, not jack stands - compressed suspension left very little room around the transmission to get my arms up where they needed to be.

The codes have not returned, the blatty exhaust on deceleration is gone too. I just hooked up the battery after letting it sit for a few hours to clear adaptations, so tomorrow's morning commute will be the first spirited drive since everything has been done.

I learned a trick from an old mechanic while at NAPA buying Zerex that did help - wrapping electrical tape around a wobble joint will keep it at the angle you want it at, but still let it flex when you use it. - just thought I would pass that along. (he laughed at me when I said I was doing maintenance on my BMW - "Thought you guys all paid mechanics hundreds of dollars an hour to get their fingernails dirty for you."

Without this board I would be paying the $tealer to do this....actually next time I might get a quote from them on this project anyway

 

[jfoj]

Let us know how the cars runs once you get a chance to put some miles on it.

My car has a lower RPM (under 2,500) slight misfire or chuggle under load. I have Vanos O-rings and I am waiting on my CPS. Plan to do all 4 as after reading here I decided just to do it.

I am starting to think all the older board members have stock in the company that make the CPS!!!

 

[MN01R6]

Let us know how the cars runs once you get a chance to put some miles on it.

My car has a lower RPM (under 2,500) slight misfire or chuggle under load. I have Vanos O-rings and I am waiting on my CPS. Plan to do all 4 as after reading here I decided just to do it.

I am starting to think all the older board members have stock in the company that make the CPS!!!

I would look at your MAFs if not done already - I had about the same issue 6 months ago and that was the problem. They are a lot easier to get to than CPS and you can do the secret menu and direct voltage testing to confirm they are bad before shelling out money on the parts.

 

[MN01R6]

Taking my daughter to swimming last night I had the CEL come on. Pulled the codes and got


B9 "Exhaust camshaft VANOS position control, Cyl#1-4"
CD "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #1"
CE "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #2"
CF "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #3"
D0 "Misfire during warm-up, Cyl #4"
CC "Misfire, multiple cylinders"

So now the codes followed the board after not following the board.

I cleared the codes and left the battery unplugged all last night. If the codes come back I guess I get to spend $1,100 on a new solenoid board.