BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
741 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
But I have some questions. I've owned my 2003 for 4 years or so and to date I've only added the Dinan exhaust. With it being several years before I could consider the new M5, I'm thinking about some modifications to the current car. ESS seems like a viable option but my problem is I don't want to add 100+ HP without also addressing the suspension and brakes. I still have the Original clutch so I don't consider putting a new clutch in as an issue with respect to the decision. It's probably time for one.

I just had my 120k mile inspection II and my car is in immaculate condition with all maintenance up to date on no issues to speak of. Interior is still in good shape. However, when I've read the threads on the ESS, several have said to "refresh the engine", including the rod bearings before the ESS install.

1) Would you make this big a modification to a car that has 120k miles?
2) Would you keep the car you have and know (that's paid for) or would you sell it and by a low mileage example to make the modification to? I recognize there is a risk going from a car I know to one I don't.
3) Just what else is considered part of "refreshing" the engine with respect to adding a supercharger?
4) Is replacing the bearings really necessary if there are no issues right now.
5)Will Brembo's or Stoptechs fit under the stock ChromeShadow rims? I like the stock look and don't necessarily want to change rims?
6) Would you look for an installer locally or spend the time and money to take the car to one of the installers that have a history with them? I'm thinking about the one in Arizona?

I'm asking all these questions because I'd like to make a decision knowing all the facts. Thinking I'm going to spend $9-10k for an ESS with install, then finding I've got to sink another $10k for the suspension, refresh, and brakes is something I'd like to take into consideration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,597 Posts
1) Would you make this big a modification to a car that has 120k miles?
2) Would you keep the car you have and know (that's paid for) or would you sell it and by a low mileage example to make the modification to? I recognize there is a risk going from a car I know to one I don't.
3) Just what else is considered part of "refreshing" the engine with respect to adding a supercharger?
4) Is replacing the bearings really necessary if there are no issues right now.
5)Will Brembo's or Stoptechs fit under the stock ChromeShadow rims? I like the stock look and don't necessarily want to change rims?
6) Would you look for an installer locally or spend the time and money to take the car to one of the installers that have a history with them? I'm thinking about the one in Arizona?
1. IIRC a few members have ESS SC on their cars with 100k+ miles.
2. If you have kept up with all the maintenance on your car and you feel its in tip-top shape engine wise, not really a reason to drop it for a car with less miles with no personal service history.
3. I'm sure ESS SC owners can chime in on this one. Most did not have to do anything out of the ordinary in preparation for the SC. It was more related to normal maintenance.
4. I would almost want to say yes to this as 'preventive maintenance.'
5. Stoptechs are designed to fit under the stock shadow-chrome wheels. Brembos may require a 3mm spacer in the front.
6. The install is considered a relative DIY. I would not be concerned about having a reputable shop handle the install if you don't DIY. However, ESS is local to Arizona, so it may be advantageous to take it to one of their dealers. But I would not go out of my way to go there if you have a good local INDY you trust.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bimmernut1

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,411 Posts
My car has far fewer miles but I'm still running on original clutch, brakes, suspension without issues. I do not track my car, but it is my daily driver. I'd say go for it!
 
  • Like
Reactions: M55555

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,642 Posts
You know your car and the maintenance you invested in it.So keep it.Even a lower mileage car will require some of the maintenance items you are through.


ESS and BBK we are talking serious money.So spend the 1500-2k $ for the rod bearings before super charging it.
Regarding the mileage and the performance it gets,the only right way to go!

What is 15k mods worth when you end up having a thrown rod?

NOTHING,just a waste of MONEY and TIME.Been there,done that!

I go through these questions with customers almost every day.
First get it mechanically sound,then mod it.Is my way to handle it.
Because this means long term satisfaction for the owner.

If you want to go for more engine refreshing,get the chain guides done(nice side effect is,it has then also correct cam timing afterwards!).
This is another potential failure area.Costs for chain,chain guides,all tensioners,Vanos refresh,... is about 3.5-4k...

Before you start with any modding or rebuilding,get a shop to remove the plugs,do a compression test and inspect the cylinder walls for scoring,to see if this engine is even worth modding it.

My 2 cents...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,597 Posts
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2; en-us; Sprint APA9292KT Build/FRF91) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

Well said ;)
 

·
Company Representative for Brecus Motorsport
Joined
·
773 Posts
But I have some questions. I've owned my 2003 for 4 years or so and to date I've only added the Dinan exhaust. With it being several years before I could consider the new M5, I'm thinking about some modifications to the current car. ESS seems like a viable option but my problem is I don't want to add 100+ HP without also addressing the suspension and brakes. I still have the Original clutch so I don't consider putting a new clutch in as an issue with respect to the decision. It's probably time for one.

I just had my 120k mile inspection II and my car is in immaculate condition with all maintenance up to date on no issues to speak of. Interior is still in good shape. However, when I've read the threads on the ESS, several have said to "refresh the engine", including the rod bearings before the ESS install.

1) Would you make this big a modification to a car that has 120k miles?
2) Would you keep the car you have and know (that's paid for) or would you sell it and by a low mileage example to make the modification to? I recognize there is a risk going from a car I know to one I don't.
3) Just what else is considered part of "refreshing" the engine with respect to adding a supercharger?
4) Is replacing the bearings really necessary if there are no issues right now.
5)Will Brembo's or Stoptechs fit under the stock ChromeShadow rims? I like the stock look and don't necessarily want to change rims?
6) Would you look for an installer locally or spend the time and money to take the car to one of the installers that have a history with them? I'm thinking about the one in Arizona?

I'm asking all these questions because I'd like to make a decision knowing all the facts. Thinking I'm going to spend $9-10k for an ESS with install, then finding I've got to sink another $10k for the suspension, refresh, and brakes is something I'd like to take into consideration.
1. Its not really an issue to mod your car with high miles but there are things you need to be aware off. Rod bearings are a great proactive maintenance plan before installing the ESS. Is it absolutely necessary? No... but then what is. To us here at Brecus its simple insurance before a storm.

2. The 14" Brembo and Stoptech kits will most likely fit under the 18" wheels. There may be a need for a spacer depending on your wheels. The 355 Brembo kit fit under my wheels without a spacer. I ended up using a 3mm H&R just to be safe.

Feel free to hit me up with questions about products and pricing. We offer free shipping on all our products and excellent service!

Aaron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
741 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
You know your car and the maintenance you invested in it.So keep it.Even a lower mileage car will require some of the maintenance items you are through.


ESS and BBK we are talking serious money.So spend the 1500-2k $ for the rod bearings before super charging it.
Regarding the mileage and the performance it gets,the only right way to go!

What is 15k mods worth when you end up having a thrown rod?

NOTHING,just a waste of MONEY and TIME.Been there,done that!

I go through these questions with customers almost every day.
First get it mechanically sound,then mod it.Is my way to handle it.
Because this means long term satisfaction for the owner.

If you want to go for more engine refreshing,get the chain guides done(nice side effect is,it has then also correct cam timing afterwards!).
This is another potential failure area.Costs for chain,chain guides,all tensioners,Vanos refresh,... is about 3.5-4k...

Before you start with any modding or rebuilding,get a shop to remove the plugs,do a compression test and inspect the cylinder walls for scoring,to see if this engine is even worth modding it.

My 2 cents...

Thanks. Great advice. From all the comments, I'd better earmark another $5k or so to get the engine in shape. I'll do a compression test if I proceed.

I did keep the plugs from my recent 120k mile Inspection 2. They don't give you the same info as other tests but I guess if you can read them they tell you something about the engine. 5 were dry with a nice light brown color and one had slight amount of oil on the tip. My mechanic says it's not enough to be concerned about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
877 Posts
bimmernut1,


Vantaam5 summed it up! Also, there are some great threads on here about items to consider replacing.

I am in the process of preparing for the install of the ESS kit that is sitting in my garage. My car has 33K and a few upgrades... however, a few things to consider:

If you do the install yourself you can save about 800-1000 and put it towards your parts

If you have not changed your fuel pump with 120K you will likely want to change it ( ESS recommends fuel pump change if car is over 50K I think), fuel filter, and several guys on the board has upgraded the clamps and silicone sleeves for a better seal (about $45.00), check the vacuum lines under the plenum to make sure they are not cracked.

Also, while the plenum is off you could think about CPS, thermostat, TPS and other items while you are in there.

James
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,083 Posts
But I have some questions. I've owned my 2003 for 4 years or so and to date I've only added the Dinan exhaust. With it being several years before I could consider the new M5, I'm thinking about some modifications to the current car. ESS seems like a viable option but my problem is I don't want to add 100+ HP without also addressing the suspension and brakes. I still have the Original clutch so I don't consider putting a new clutch in as an issue with respect to the decision. It's probably time for one.

I just had my 120k mile inspection II and my car is in immaculate condition with all maintenance up to date on no issues to speak of. Interior is still in good shape. However, when I've read the threads on the ESS, several have said to "refresh the engine", including the rod bearings before the ESS install.

1) Would you make this big a modification to a car that has 120k miles?
2) Would you keep the car you have and know (that's paid for) or would you sell it and by a low mileage example to make the modification to? I recognize there is a risk going from a car I know to one I don't.
3) Just what else is considered part of "refreshing" the engine with respect to adding a supercharger?
4) Is replacing the bearings really necessary if there are no issues right now.
5)Will Brembo's or Stoptechs fit under the stock ChromeShadow rims? I like the stock look and don't necessarily want to change rims?
6) Would you look for an installer locally or spend the time and money to take the car to one of the installers that have a history with them? I'm thinking about the one in Arizona?

I'm asking all these questions because I'd like to make a decision knowing all the facts. Thinking I'm going to spend $9-10k for an ESS with install, then finding I've got to sink another $10k for the suspension, refresh, and brakes is something I'd like to take into consideration.
Great advice above, and you will no doubt be receiving more opinions - which of course is all you can get...so here are mine, in order.
1) Not sure. To be honest, I am an outlier here and prefer to keep the car stock, for a variety of reasons. 120K miles is a fair amount for the stock components, although clearly we have seen the cars go for > 200K miles.
2) If you have a solid example and want to proceed, I would likely do engine maintenance and use your current car.
3) No need to repeat the above. You'll want to do a thorough evaluation of all your components, as there will be considerably added stress.
4) Yes. I will be considering doing this on my stock car at your mileage. If I were to SC the car, I'd probably do it now (69K miles).
5) Don't know; I think the fronts are a problem in terms of fitment but I'm sure it has been addressed by one of the knowledgeable members above.
5) Don't know, but Arizona is a wonderful place to visit!

My personal strategy is to keep my car stock, keep it forever, and buy other cars to suit other needs.

James, I didn't know you have an ESS SC ready to install! But I'm not surprised. Let me know who is doing the install and when it will be done! Congrats.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jimmythefish

·
Registered
Joined
·
776 Posts
Go for it man! You will love the increase in power. I would strongly suggest you cool the oil and boost if you go that route. It makes a very big difference by avoiding heat soaking the motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
741 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Go for it man! You will love the increase in power. I would strongly suggest you cool the oil and boost if you go that route. It makes a very big difference by avoiding heat soaking the motor.
Thanks. Sounds like you have a real monster M5. Any additional information on what you used for cooling the oil and boost, where you mounted them, etc?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
776 Posts
Thanks. Sounds like you have a real monster M5. Any additional information on what you used for cooling the oil and boost, where you mounted them, etc?
There are threads on these topics you can find by searching for "ESS"
 
  • Like
Reactions: bimmernut1

·
Registered
Joined
·
741 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Decided on a compromise plan.

I think with cold weather coming on and winter tires going on this weekend, it won't do me much good to have another 100+ HP right now anyway and probably won't until it gets warm again. Instead over the winter months, I'll do the maintenance items that need to be done on a 120k mile M5 anyway so I'll be ready to pull the trigger if I later decide to go that route. I want a complete package (power, braking, and handling) not just an increase in HP so I think I'll do the following:

1) Change out the original suspension, tie rods, bushings, etc. (120k is too much on original shocks I know)
2) Replace the stock fuel pump although there are no issues with it right now
3) Replace the clutch with larger unit
4) Consider a brake upgrade (not sure if guys are doing front and rear or just front)
5) Replace rod bearings and chain guides; think I'll skip the Vanos rebuild for now since I've done the solenoids
6) Research the cooling options mentioned by Mikeoski


These will get the beast into optimum condition whether or not I add the supercharger. At least she will be ready to accept it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
Some good suggestions from other fellow members, but I'll throw in MY opinion on this..

1. Shocks definitely needs to be replaced at 120k, I replaced mine around 80k and the difference was huge!
2. Pump and fuel filter will need to be replaced, just in case.
3. OEM clutch is fine with all intends and purposes unless you track the car. Especially considering the cost of a proper aftermarket clutch costs 10x more. Also, remember that ANY clutch can be roasted if not driven properly.
4. Personally, I think the OEM brakes are fine. I've had full Stoptech before and while they are an improvement in feel, not sure if they are worth the 5k... or even 3k for used. Unless you are a veteran driver and track the car. I think the M5 ring taxi only has different pads and fluids..
5. Rod bearings and chain guide and VANOS is a good idea to get another 100k out of the engine.

If money was of no concern, then I would do a lot more. It's just what I would do if it was my car.

I think with cold weather coming on and winter tires going on this weekend, it won't do me much good to have another 100+ HP right now anyway and probably won't until it gets warm again. Instead over the winter months, I'll do the maintenance items that need to be done on a 120k mile M5 anyway so I'll be ready to pull the trigger if I later decide to go that route. I want a complete package (power, braking, and handling) not just an increase in HP so I think I'll do the following:

1) Change out the original suspension, tie rods, bushings, etc. (120k is too much on original shocks I know)
2) Replace the stock fuel pump although there are no issues with it right now
3) Replace the clutch with larger unit
4) Consider a brake upgrade (not sure if guys are doing front and rear or just front)
5) Replace rod bearings and chain guides; think I'll skip the Vanos rebuild for now since I've done the solenoids
6) Research the cooling options mentioned by Mikeoski


These will get the beast into optimum condition whether or not I add the supercharger. At least she will be ready to accept it.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top