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Not going to replace the vanos line if there's nothing wrong with it.. Unless there's a general consensus that they don't ever last longer than 90,000-100,000 miles.

I'm assuming to replace the vanos pump filter, you have to remove the vanos pump. So, unless that's not true, I'll replace it when I have to go back in for something else like the the vanos line. I'm kind of in a hurry to get everything finished since I've overshot my intended timeframe by a pretty large margin. I have a house for sale and don't want to be stuck with the car still opened up if I have a buyer wanting to close. Otherwise, I might have decided to remove the pumps to check everything out.
I'd do the high pressure vanos line 1000% if I was already in there. Just doesn't make sense not to.

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I'd do the high pressure vanos line 1000% if I was already in there. Just doesn't make sense not to.

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I've modified my ps rack and subframe to make getting in there a whole lot easier. I don't really mind having to go back in... I just see no point in replacing something that hasn't shown any signs of jankiness at all yet. Now, that is for me.. I'd say if you're having a shop do the work for you and you don't have access to a lift or don't at least perform the work yourself, then, by all means, I would replace it. I don't mind going back in there again and if the hose lasts another 10, 20, or even 30,000 miles why would I want to prematurely replace it?
 

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I've modified my ps rack and subframe to make getting in there a whole lot easier. I don't really mind having to go back in... I just see no point in replacing something that hasn't shown any signs of jankiness at all yet. Now, that is for me.. I'd say if you're having a shop do the work for you and you don't have access to a lift or don't at least perform the work yourself, then, by all means, I would replace it. I don't mind going back in there again and if the hose lasts another 10, 20, or even 30,000 miles why would I want to prematurely replace it?
Because time is money as they say, as well as it failing and not knowing about it and it causes damage to your vanos because of lack of oil and now you have a much more expensive job and headache when you could've taken care of it right now, but I guess that's just me.

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Because time is money as they say, as well as it failing and not knowing about it and it causes damage to your vanos because of lack of oil and now you have a much more expensive job and headache when you could've taken care of it right now, but I guess that's just me.

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The problem is that I really don't have the time to remove the vanos at the moment and since there's nothing wrong with either the internal or external high pressure lines, I have no reason to put myself in a position where I would have to juggle getting my vehicle back together while moving everything out of my house.
 

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I guess I'm wrong about the vanos filter... Is it behind the regulator? All the diagrams I've seen say it's in the block. Or I guess maybe both of those things are true?

@flacoramos I also just read in an earlier thread that your '08 model didn't have the filter. Did you add this filter since yours was missing one?
Not sure what you mean by regulator. The filter is pressed into the block, between vanos pump and engine block. Mine had it, and I replaced it. What mine didn't have is a filter built into the vanos pump as that thread was referring to.

As much as I've enjoyed rebuilding engines and working on my cars and motorcycles over the years I didn't enjoy dropping the subframe that much. Must be getting old ha. Torque'ing the OE bolts wasn't that bad for me. But anyway the internal vanos hose will eventually leak. Hose is about $150 if memory is right, and it's only an extra hour or two to change it. No engine harm occurs if it fails other than vanos codes. Of course if you can't have the car sitting for an extra day then next time it is.
 

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Not sure what you mean by regulator. The filter is pressed into the block, between vanos pump and engine block. Mine had it, and I replaced it. What mine didn't have is a filter built into the vanos pump as that thread was referring to.

As much as I've enjoyed rebuilding engines and working on my cars and motorcycles over the years I didn't enjoy dropping the subframe that much. Must be getting old ha. Torque'ing the OE bolts wasn't that bad for me. But anyway the internal vanos hose will eventually leak. Hose is about $150 if memory is right, and it's only an extra hour or two to change it. No engine harm occurs if it fails other than vanos codes. Of course if you can't have the car sitting for an extra day then next time it is.
Ok. I must have been mixing up some info that I had read related to the S54. I'm getting old myself lol. Removing the subframe made me cranky and I figured with my luck that I would be back in there again soon, so that's why I decided to do the rack and subframe modification. When I do the vanos high pressure lines, I want to have time to disassemble the oil and vanos pumps and evaluate them thoroughly. I'd also like to have a pressure accumulator on hand to replace that as well. I'm also planning to do vanos solenoids. If I'm going to break into the vanos system, I prefer to do everything at once and I'm not really prepared to do that at the moment.
 

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I think NAK91's logic makes sense given his situation. He needs the car put back together ASAP, it seems he has some timing setbacks in the front end trying to get parts from FAMS. As far as addressing the most critical issue, it does makes sense to address the rod bearings as it has a very severe failure mode- continued metal erosion into the oil sump where it's then possible to damage the 2 oil pumps and clog the VANOS actuators.

The failure mode for a failed HP internal VANOS line is that there is insufficient pressure to actuate the VANOS double acting cylinders to advance or retard timing. Worst case is that HP internal hose bursts. That will mean cam will just have it's default timing and you'll likely get a code, this isn't nearly as catastrophic as rod knock or spun bearing.

I think the additional work to replace the line for a first time DIY (who has a moderate or advanced level of experience) is 4 hours if you have the right tools. 1.5 hour the 2nd time. I don't think any of the DIY guides or videos go in to the little details. To do it right, you have to drain the radiator(s), remove the cooling fan (and clean out all the garbage underneath the cover), remove at least one of the upper radiator hoses, remove the water pump pulley (it is usually seized on so you need the right puller). I replaced the water pump while I was at it, that was not included in the 4 hrs.

The hard part is getting the HP line out of the block since it's sealed in there tight and has been that way for 10-14 years. There is very little access. You can't just pry it out, I tried that. Maybe you will get lucky though.

I found this more difficult than dropping the subframe. That said I also have a special transmission jack with a jig that neatly expands to hold the subframe. I also have a 1/2" electric impact to remove the subframe bolts. Removing the PS banjos is indeed a PITA.

Once the HP internal line is out, fishing the line out and back in is relatively easy. Properly seating the upper radiator hose is a bit tricky too especially is there is maybe corrosion on the nipple of thermostat housing cover, a nice leak will be evident upon starting up the car.

Setting the VANOS backlash is a bit tedious and frustrating. As mentioned in one of my prior posts, it helps to measure the backlash before you remove the pump so you have an idea of what your baseline is.

There is a M10 TTY nut that bolts the oil pump sprocket in the main oil pump. Make sure you order that beforehand, the torque spec is also quite different depending on which oil pump generation you have. This is done after setting the VANOS backlash, and it needs to be removed if you need to "redo" the VANOS backlash setting. Therefore if you have to torque it down to the 55nm value on the old style pump, you should make sure you order more than 1 nut if you care to do this correctly.
 

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@gmtegear Yeah, it's definitely a job that will require more time than I currently have and it's just not something I've planned ahead of time for. At 90,000 miles, though, I wasn't willing to let the bearings go any longer so that wasn't even a choice in my mind. The power steering pump as well... If I'm removing the pump, I'm definitely replacing it and I don't currently have one.
 

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There is enough space to remove the vanos hose without draining rad or removing hoses. WP pulley has to come off then the hose is held by a single bolt behind the pulley. Mine came out easily after removing the bolt. I followed GAS diy instructions. That's prob why it took me less time than gm's estimate.

If you read the service manual (newtis) you'll find the main oil pump sprocket nut uses a fancy high temp threadlock. That's likely why bmw calls out for its replacement. Same recommendation they make for microencapsulated oil pan bolts. There's no need to remove that nut for re-setting backlash anyway. Releasing the chain tensioner is enough to allow the vanos pump to move. Setting the backlash definitely requires some back and forth to get it right.

The 55nm spec is standard torque for a grade 8.8 M10 bolt, so definitely not TTY. No such thing as a TTY nut afaik. It'd have to be the oil pump shaft yielding, which would be pretty dumb.
 

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@gmtegear Yeah, it's definitely a job that will require more time than I currently have and it's just not something I've planned ahead of time for. At 90,000 miles, though, I wasn't willing to let the bearings go any longer so that wasn't even a choice in my mind. The power steering pump as well... If I'm removing the pump, I'm definitely replacing it and I don't currently have one.
I have a factory remaned PS pump if you need one.
 

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I also did not pull the pumps out to inspect or change the hose. I was on a limited timeline, didn't find any shavings in my oil filter, and the motor has 77K.
I know its a risk. But I have a lift in my backyard, and a backup car. So if it throws a code, I'll tear it down again. I'm really not too worried about it. It may have been a stupid decision and bite me later, but time will tell.
I'm really surprised some people have such an issue accessing the motor mounts from above (stock headers). Once I took the airbox out, I could see the nuts in plain sight.
All that's left to do is put oil in her! Then I'll fire it up and take it for alignment (I did tie rods and lower control arms too)
 

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There is enough space to remove the vanos hose without draining rad or removing hoses. WP pulley has to come off then the hose is held by a single bolt behind the pulley. Mine came out easily after removing the bolt. I followed GAS diy instructions. That's prob why it took me less time than gm's estimate.

If you read the service manual (newtis) you'll find the main oil pump sprocket nut uses a fancy high temp threadlock. That's likely why bmw calls out for its replacement. Same recommendation they make for microencapsulated oil pan bolts. There's no need to remove that nut for re-setting backlash anyway. Releasing the chain tensioner is enough to allow the vanos pump to move. Setting the backlash definitely requires some back and forth to get it right.

The 55nm spec is standard torque for a grade 8.8 M10 bolt, so definitely not TTY. No such thing as a TTY nut afaik. It'd have to be the oil pump shaft yielding, which would be pretty dumb.
If the HP hose does not come out easily then it will put up a serious fight, the 11367834552 oring ensures a good seal. You WILL have to remove the hoses and potentially the fan to get more access to pry on the flange. Again all the DIY and other guidance fall short on discussing this. GAS simply refers to the factory instructions. I had to rig up a pulling device to pull it out square to the angled surface.

There are 2 versions of the oil pump sprocket and spline. The older cars have a hex shank while the newer ones have a serrated shank. The older designs also apparently require shimming as well based on the factory instructions. The hex shank calls for 55nm, but the current part numbers are the same regardless. The serrated shank is 25nm. The factory instructions say to replace the nut, so do whatever you want. Many of people reuse fasteners despite what the procedure says, including myself.

936271


I recommend following the instructions for this joint. The nut it is a zinc finished M10 nut with green loctite pre applied to the thread. It is silver finish and does not have any marks to indicate the class. It ended being cheaper to buy that new nut vs. buying the smallest tube of green loctite, I ordered 3 since I have engines that I will be doing this job on. I'm not expecting any of the others to be hex shaft pumps but I won't know until I look at it.

Here is BMW's max torque spec for M10 threaded fasteners. I'm assuming it would be made from the same material as a class 8.8, the finish is zinc, maybe it is 10.9 or 12.9. I can look at the proof marks on the nut which should indicate grade and class. Regardless this statement is incorrect:
The 55nm spec is standard torque for a grade 8.8 M10 bolt, so definitely not TTY.
55nm is well beyond the max torque spec of 38 nm, 25nm is well below but in either event green loctite is called out. I agree that generally the shaft would be the part that would yield, but the UTS of the shaft is not known, if it is equivalent to 12.9 class, then the threads of the nut will deform when exceeding max torque, while the shaft stays well within elastic deformation zone. This would be a very a well engineered joint. I think all LCI cars will have the serrated shaft and it's 25nm so with the exception of the green loctite, this discussion on torque is not a big deal for LCI.

936272
 

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The ISO charts available online show 55nm for M10. No idea why the BMW spec deviates from ISO. BMW does not manufacture fasteners that's for sure. You're right LCI cars should use the lower 25nm. Never thought of buying a new nut to save a few bucks vs. buying green loctite, that's a great tip. The green loctite bottle was about $25 or so if memory is right. Take another look at GAS, they state same thing I did.

Pretty sure a TTY nut does not exist. If threads deform then that nut is not coming off. If I was in charge I'd fire the engineer/designer on the spot lol...
 

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I originally followed the GAS article. It's great it could be a bit better though, but kudos to them for doing it in the first place.

I recall DIN 267 is the spec for fasteners, my mind is still polluted with useless info. The nut actually is marked on one side which is the side that should face out. I didn't bother to read the proof marks, but will look when I get a chance. I agree nuts are not typically classified as TTY, but all threaded joints (bolts, nuts, tapped holes) have limits to their strength, if a torque value exceeds the design limit there will be yield/deformation beyond the material's ability to return to its normal shape. I'd hesitate in also saying that one can simply reuse the M10 nut because the torque spec is 25nm. When I removed it, I used my digital angle torque meter and it required 44 nm to loosen, it's not unusual at all for the factory to torque fasteners down more than the service procedure. It's like a $6 nut that cost them 6 cents. I paid them the stealer $6, grainger didn't have the green loctite in stock, and it was going to be like $20 for a bottle that I'll barely use.

The design change in sprocket and shaft was not a cheap or trivial change for them, I'm sure they saw that the hex shape was deforming due to the torque. Too bad they never fixed the other design problems with this engine, but we wouldn't have sub $10k V10 sedans...

In a separate instance but related to the con rod bearing job in general, the bolts AND nuts that secure the power steering rack to the subframe must be replaced according to the procedure. I'm sure many people cut corners and reuse these. I was going to myself until I realized I read poorly worded torque spec.

Those square nuts (31106779393) that are captured in the subframe to which the thick aluminum plate is bolted to. Those nuts and bolts are supposed to be replaced also. The nuts because the metal spring clip corrodes, and when that happens you can't remove the bolt because there is nothing to hold the square nut to prevent it from rotating. That has happened to me. If you have a rust belt car I'd highly advise to replace those nuts.
 

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Those square nuts (31106779393) that are captured in the subframe to which the thick aluminum plate is bolted to. Those nuts and bolts are supposed to be replaced also. The nuts because the metal spring clip corrodes, and when that happens you can't remove the bolt because there is nothing to hold the square nut to prevent it from rotating. That has happened to me. If you have a rust belt car I'd highly advise to replace those nuts.
I actually had one of those nuts on the thick aluminum plate rotate too. I live in AZ, and the car has always been garaged in AZ. Probably a good recommendation for all. They're super cheap and you can avoid a headache.
 

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I posted in here earlier about being on 125k mile original rod bearings and was going to get them changed. Well, I did, so here we go.
Miles: 126xxx
Owner History: I am 6th owner
Average OCI: Previous owner 7k, other 4 owners unknown. I did an oil change as soon as I bought the car and my intervals will be 5k from here on out.
UOA: None
Reason changed: Fear
DIY or Shop: Shop
Replaced with: Lang Racing ACL, OEM Bolts
Pictures speak for themselves. Get them changed if you haven't people!

Note: These are not displayed in any specific order, the shop handed me the old bearings mixed up in a bag. I don't know which bearings go to which rods, etc.
936339

936340

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This one was the worst, and had a decent sized chunk missing. Not sure what caused it, but scary.
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Shop said no crank damage. Glad I got them changed, had a decent 150 mile drive home that was uneventful. Restarted the car to go out when I got home and was greeted by everyone's favorite light show.
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What the... alright well no knocking so that's a good sign. Time to load up ISTA.

936344


My bank 2 idle actuator grenaded less than 200 miles after the rb replacement. Lol just my luck. Oh well, another thing to be fixed! Although this will be done DIY.
 

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08’ E60 M5 SMG S85 80k mi
Replaced the bearings preventatively. Did it myself. Used BE ARP combo.

#4 was the worst. But it wasn’t as bad as some of the pics I have seen. It’s is my baby. I am the 3rd owner Purchased from a dealer as cpo in 2010 At 30k. The car was dealer
Maintained. Until about 70k ok extended warranty. When I hear about these failure I started to drive the car less.
Oil was replaced more often the past few years... maybe 2-3k
 

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I would be very sad owning an m5 not driving it the way it needs to be.

I have an m5 that i take to the track, the straights were too long for 3rd gear and too short for 4th gear.

My solution, run 3rd gear to rev limiter, then later backed of at 8,200 , this allowed me to make it to start of brake zone, did this all day not one bar of oil lost.

This motor is stout
 

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Bearings are not meant to be broken in. There should be very little wear on them, just a very slight polish but all over the bearing surface.
For some reason the S65/85 has massive wear on the upper shell and most of the time it is off center indicating its the upward or downward stroke just before or after TDC.

Why does it wear at that point?? I would love to know.
Per attached maximum cylinder pressure is about 30 degrees after TDC

The reason the wear is concentrated in a small area appears to be due to excessive clearance
See attached. http://www.hotrod.com/articles/select-install-high-performance-engine-bearings/
C11B191D-557A-42BB-BD1D-44B0F6508184.jpeg
96587C21-3247-40D8-A57B-1161817EEB19.jpeg
 

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Since the typical wear pattern in the rod bearing picture thread matches the high clearance pattern, I would conclude that BMW got it right with the as manufactured and specified tight bearing clearance.

In order to mitigate the associated start up wear it would make sense to use a 5w-50 oil.
However not all are able to protect bearing from the high contact pressure, thus a group 5 oil such as Redline 5w-50 would be appropriate.
I expect it to perform better than the Group 3 TWS 10w-60
C2F80DF9-6F7C-4047-A306-7411DAACDA74.jpeg
601BFD17-F6FD-435E-AB67-22474893670C.jpeg
 
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