BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 1024 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,663 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
With all the discussion of late on the subject of rod bearings, I thought it would be a good idea to have a single thread to collect pictures of rod bearings which have been preventively changed. I say preventative because if there has been an engine failure, there are several possible reasons that can't be isolated as easily as in a currently running engine.

Edit: An excellent discussion on M3Post about the S65/S85 Rod Bearings and their measurements. Well worth the read as the most well documented and concise discussion about the hypothesized source of the problem and potential solutions.

As people add their pictures below, please include:
- mileage
- owner history
- average oil change interval
- oil analysis reports if available
- reason you decided to change (fear, suspect noise, suspect oil analysis, hard usage, etc)
- DIY or shop changed
- link to your change thread I you have one

Hopefully over time we will drag up some preventative changes that don't show significant wear, but as of starting this thread, I have yet to see a set of bearings that look "great".




Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Mileage
103kkm

Owner history
I'm second owner since 83kkm till now - 106kkm
- Daily Driver, 2 times a year track day
- I didnt' push the car before reaching temperature 80-100 C. If it is warmed up I like to push it to the limits. but I always cool it down in motion before stop after hard driving
- I did reach over 300km\h (tacho) serveral times
- 98 unleaded fuel
- Model 2007/07
- TWS till 103kkm
- now on LM oil

Average oil change interval
12kkm - 8 oil changes in the lifetime, one change was after 20kkm

Why
Because I found threads on forum, oil analysis, preventive maintenance, like to have car in good condition

How
Indy shop

Cost
Labor + bearings + screws - aprox. $1000

Link to separate thread
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/289514-bearing-rod-changed-pictures-2-s85.htm
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
250 Posts
Mileage
103kkm

Owner history
I'm second owner since 83kkm till now - 106kkm
- Daily Driver, 2 times a year track day
- I didnt' push the car before reaching temperature 80-100 C. If it is warmed up I like to push it to the limits. but I always cool it down in motion before stop after hard driving
- I did reach over 300km\h (tacho) serveral times
- 98 unleaded fuel
- Model 2007/07
- TWS till 103kkm
- now on LM oil

Average oil change interval
12kkm - 8 oil changes in the lifetime, one change was after 20kkm

Why
Because I found threads on forum, oil analysis, preventive maintenance, like to have car in good condition

How
Indy shop

Link to separate thread
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/289514-bearing-rod-changed-pictures-2-s85.htm

Hi Tomasz,

Thanks for sharing the detailed and very thorough write-up. Great start to what should be an extremely helpful thread for all the S85 M5 owners out there.

Cheers! :cheers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
985 Posts
Mileage
95,600

Owner history
I'm second owner since 52,000miles till now - 95,600miles
- Daily Driver, 6 times a year track days
- I do not push the car until reaching temperatures of 180-210 F. Once warmed a one ramp is never wasted, and driven like Sabina's little brother.
- I have reach over 190mph serveral times
- 91 premium fuel
- Model 2007/09
- after bearing change running Mobile 1 0W-40

Average oil change interval
5-6000 miles from 52,000 to 94,000 running Liqui Moly 10W-60

Why
Based on rod bearing issues on the S85 & S65, at my mileage it was a preventive decision.

How
In my garage

Link to separate thread
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/294513-rod-bearings-94-000-miles.html
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
BACKGROUND:

- mileage: currently 86,xxx miles and replaced at 84,xxx miles
- owner history: owner since 28,xxx miles, purchased with full dealer records from private individual
- average oil change interval: between 3,000 to 4,000-ish miles
- oil analysis reports if available
- reason you decided to change (fear, suspect noise, suspect oil analysis, hard usage, etc): All the above, except noise.
- DIY or shop changed: Indy Shop, OMS in Oceanside, CA oceansidemotorsports.com
- http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/290497-rod-bearings-84-000-miles.html

DETAILS:

84,000 miles replaced, with the last 60,000ish miles under my ownership. Oil change intervals of 3,000 to 4,000 miles with Motul 7100 10w60. My car is my long distance commuter, from SoCal to San Francisco, Vegas, Phoenix, Tucson, and points in between. I also track her on a regular basis, and she is not afraid of the redline. Daily shift points for me are at 6000 rpm, unless she's cold or I need to be quiet.

My e60 is three of three m5s in my current garage. I'm meticulous about proper warm up and cool down with ///M engines. Much like WallyM5, I drive all my m5s hard, but never put them away dirty -- mechanically speaking. Consumables get replaced well ahead of schedule like bushings, fluids, and now rod bearings.

Attached is my Blackstone, I'll add my rod bearing pictures later today when I can get on my computer. The pictures of my rod bearings can also be found on my original thread as well.

EDIT: Oil consumption after 2,800 miles: ZERO. Zero, even after an 800 mile trip to NorCal. The top is the the top and bottom is the bottom.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,196 Posts
-Bought at 40K now has 50K.

-03/2008 build.

-I have done 2 oil changes prior to bearing change.

-Last 5K was LM oil.

-Always Shell 93 octane.

-Not a daily driver.

-Not tracked.

-No tunes or mod exhaust. Totally stock.

-I had no symptoms, zero. Since I didn't know the first 40K history and started to "smell" rod bearing problems on the forum, I decided to do a reset. Now I know what I have. Both BS reports were excellent with no alarm bells as the car runs perfectly. 8 parts pb at the highest on BS report. I also wanted the forum to see what 50K bearings look like so others may make an informed decision. A spun rod bearing IMO is intolerable and wanted to minimize the chance of having one. There are however, no guarantees.

-Did it myself on a lift.

-Breaking in on Rotella T6 for 1K then switching to M1 0W40.

-Also replaced vanos high pressure hose while the pan was off.


Top picture is the upper shells. I only have 8 sets in the picture I took but the other sets of shells look the same.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
We should re-name this thread Shell Shocked.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,576 Posts
2006 e60 m5

Heres my rod bearings as promised. My car has 58k at the moment and its an SMG, i decided to change them out as a preventative measure. Im third owner and cannot testify as to the previous two owners driving habits. I change my oil and filter every 7000 or so miles, my car had 35k on the clock when i aquired it, so ive changed the oil three times so far. I also changed the VANOS solenoids along with the RB, not sure how long my solenoids were out of spec but they were only slightly out of spec when i checked them (.54, .52, .54, .52). I dont track my car but i do go for the occasional spirited drive with other forum members. I always allowed my car proper time to warm up before any high R pulls. I use castrol 10-60 and OEM filters. My car is an RPI S2 (and catless if it makes a difference). The job ran me roughly 2k total (rod bearings only). Car was running just fine prior to the RB swap, havent noticed any difference in performance as im still breaking them in. 090313205940.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
^^^Thanks Issac. Looks like your preventative maintenance will pay off. Did you ever post a BlackStone? I can't remember.

:cheers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,576 Posts
^^^Thanks Issac. Looks like your preventative maintenance will pay off. Did you ever post a BlackStone? I can't remember.

:cheers:
No amigo never did, i do have the kit ready to go on my next oil change though so it'll be really cool to monitor the values as i put the miles on:noSMG: . Ill make sure to post those as well so we can all compare. I was really suprised at the wear on the RB's im under 60k and they look this bad! I think anyone with a 60k plus on an S85 on stock rod b's really should seriously consider swapping em out unless you drive under 5k rpm's all the time but who the heck does that with this motor under the hood? If your not the original owner and your over 60,000 miles you should really consider this swap. If anyone needs an experienced shop in SoCal that can do this work shoot me a PM and ill give you the info.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,456 Posts
Glad you finally posted them pics Isaac :M5thumbs:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,576 Posts
Glad you finally posted them pics Isaac :M5thumbs:
Yeah dude i still dont have a new thread button lol:dunno: i hit up jcolley hes gonna see what he can do but for the meantime he said to post them here which i think is a better idea anyway.:applause:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,274 Posts
Has anyone had the ID of theirs connecting rods measured? Reason I ask is that the wear pattern on the bearings seems to suggest that the tolerances are quite tight or the rod IDs are changing over time from the heat and hi-revving. If indeed the rod IDs are changing (tighter or looser) than original spec, this would suggest tolerances will be out of spec with the new bearings than from the factory. In turn, if the IDs are larger, clearances will be looser and more prone to spinning a rod bearing or if the IDs are tighter, excessive rod bearing wear would be imminent. The more I think about it, a rod and bearing change seems like it would be the more logical approach to alleviating the issues we are running into with regards to premature rod bearing wear. Of course the trade off is full engine removal which could be dramatically more expensive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,576 Posts
I dont think the rods change at all i think a simple bearing swap is sufficient, its only the rob bearings that wear not the rods themselves. I'd ask DUSH to be certain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,456 Posts
My rods were measured (no kinky stuff MIGHTY) and they were still within tolerance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,663 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Has anyone had the ID of theirs connecting rods measured? Reason I ask is that the wear pattern on the bearings seems to suggest that the tolerances are quite tight or the rod IDs are changing over time from the heat and hi-revving. If indeed the rod IDs are changing (tighter or looser) than original spec, this would suggest tolerances will be out of spec with the new bearings than from the factory. In turn, if the IDs are larger, clearances will be looser and more prone to spinning a rod bearing or if the IDs are tighter, excessive rod bearing wear would be imminent. The more I think about it, a rod and bearing change seems like it would be the more logical approach to alleviating the issues we are running into with regards to premature rod bearing wear. Of course the trade off is full engine removal which could be dramatically more expensive.
Have you read this thread? A lot of info in there and a couple of the guys did measure rods and bearings. BMW spec'd the bearing to journals tighter than Mahle's recommendation for various reasons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
My rods were measured (no kinky stuff MIGHTY) and they were still within tolerance.
2x for me too. I was within tolerance. Zero play, like we saw in Tony's engine autopsy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,274 Posts
So after some reading it still appears that the clearances are too tight and the only way to reduce wear is to run thinner oil for the street and stick with 10W60 for the track. So technically, the only way to increase tolerances based on currently available bearing options is to machine the journals.

So my question to Paul would be, were your journals machined at all to accept higher clearances?
 
1 - 20 of 1024 Posts
About this Discussion
1K Replies
211 Participants
TurboDave
BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
M5Board is the best forum community for information on the BMW M5 E60 (V-10), E39 (V-8), E34 (straight 6), E28, F90 and F10. Discuss performance, specs, reviews and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top